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Cycle News review of the 390 RR-S; they LOVED it.....!

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5 minutes ago, jms130 said:

Cycle news will put practically every street bike they test on a scale and publish the weight. Why do they NOT weigh dirt bikes?  :lame:

Because it is the least important specification.  You are getting upset over nothing.

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15 minutes ago, Krannie McKranface said:

Because it is the least important specification.  You are getting upset over nothing.

Well now that that's established, then why would one own a Beta or KTM and not a Japanese dual sport bike instead?

Weight matters to some of us, maybe not you, but there's no need to be dismissive.

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17 hours ago, RudderFeet said:

Well now that that's established, then why would one own a Beta or KTM and not a Japanese dual sport bike instead?

Weight matters to some of us, maybe not you, but there's no need to be dismissive.

Yes there absolutely positively is a reason to counter your negative comment about a review. It's just a review, not a national declaration. 

Chasing weight for weight's sake, is  just plan STUPID.  

I own a plated 2016 WR450F as my 'real' dual sport, because it is better at it than anything else.  It is a better dual sport, than for anything else.

My 2016 BETA 430 RR-RE dual sport is never ridden on the street. It's plated for reasons of trail access. It is a better single track bike than dual sport.

Same with my plated 2016 YZ450FX. It will go faster and farther than the BETA over whooped terrain, by a long shot, but I would never use it for street use. It is a better Desert bike, than dual sport.

KTM's are the lightest, and the worst.  They are now all close-ratio trans, so the Dual sport nature of a 500exc is pointless. It won't even cruise at 60mph anymore, so it's 6th gear is no longer a benefit. It's there to counter the weak and peaky power delivery.  It's so light it flexes in the frame and forks, and cannot go fast over rough terrain. There is a reason these ulta-light bikes are not lasting, as well. No such thing as a 500 hour KTM, since 2004....  The BETA outlasts them motor and clutch and suspension wise, partly, because they weigh more. Yamaha's even more so, by a factor of two or three.  I personally do not like selling my bikes at 100 hours because they are worn out.....

I have a professional racer friend who road on the Husqvarna Factory Team 100x for the 2017 Baja race, and he said he would never consider such a bike as his own personal Baja racer. Too fragile, to flexy, too peaky. It was a paid gig, a sponsored ride. One Baja race and the bike is done forever.  His Honda CRF450X has been racing Baja for 8 years now.......his Honda weights 28lbs more....and no, I don't compare the two as similar bikes, but you get my point. 

Lowest weight has no correlation or causation of highest performance, and has proven not to be the best overall value.  

 

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Proven to YOU.

Curious tantrum about the irrelevance of weight to someone you were too busy being emotional to to notice I'm not jms130. Ok, so you're authorative and deserving of deference and don't like contradictions on your linked post which didn't include any context, just the link itself as if an invite for multifaceted commentary, got it.  Allow me to be grovelly and deferent, oh Internet mayor of bike weightitude.  So sorry we ungratefully struck a nerve by assuming a simple linked article on an open forum was invitation to disagree as much as agree with whatever conclusion you came to without posting what that was.  Yea, F us!

Once you're done being a momentary twit, consider that to older, post-surgerical guys like me with limited strength and endurance who have too many life obligations to study every last opinion of factory team racers and their friends, weight matters.  Yes, even 20, 30 or 50 lbs after several get-offs on hot, humid days in tight single-track.  I experienced it again at an untimed enduro last weekend and am certain I would have tapped out earlier on a 320 lb WR250R than my 350RR.  As such, "the best overall value and performance" is a bike that facilitates the experience I'm going for, not the one(s) you and you racing buddy are.

It takes all of 10 minutes to weigh a bike and include it in the specs - jms130's desire for that data isn't as assault on your honor.

 

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I pay attention to weight spec's too.  BUT...as a 70 year-old who has owned just about every kind of bike imaginable, I have found that where that weight is carried is probably more important than the total weight (within reason).  For example, I owned a 2015 KTM 350 exc-f, which weighed about 5 lbs less than the 390 I now own.   That bike was a drag to ride on tighter technical trails, partly because of the higher seat height, and partly because it carried the weight higher in general.  What I've  noticed about my 390 is that I ride it on trails I would avoid with the KTM, as it turns better and takes less effort to control, which is mostly a result of the lower CG.  I can also flat-foot the 390 (I'm 5'10" on a good day, LOL).  I have dumped the 390 over on several occasions and have found that the lower CG makes it easier to lift, especially with the well-place hand grips that they built into the bike.   I love technical terrain and bikes fall over often on the trails I ride (I don't know why, LOL).  When I bought the KTM it was to replace a plated '91 RMX250 I had.  The KTM weighed about 265 lbs, and the RMX was only about 5 lbs less (both fueled).  I ended up preferring the RMX (and keeping it) because the CG was so much lower - it handled much better on technical stuff.  The Beta 390 handles better than the RMX, party because of better suspension, but also because it too has a lower CG.  I recently sold the RMX.

You guys are both right, total weight is good to have as an indication of comparison, but it doesn't tell the whole story - even for us guys with worn-out and weakened bodies.

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I'm impressed that they noted the improvements being made each year. For roughly the same MSRP, today's Betas provides significantly more refinements and enhancements than their 2013 bikes.

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9 hours ago, Krannie McKranface said:

They are now all close-ratio trans, so the Dual sport nature of a 500exc is pointless. It won't even cruise at 60mph anymore, so it's 6th gear is no longer a benefit. It's there to counter the weak and peaky power delivery.  It's so light it flexes in the frame and forks, and cannot go fast over rough terrain. There is a reason these ulta-light bikes are not lasting, as well. No such thing as a 500 hour KTM, since 2004.... 

 

While I agree with many of the things you say, this post contains some glaring misstatements.  Of note, the new 500 EXC still has a semi wide ratio 6 speed trans (not close ratio) although the primary gearing has been lowered a little.  With proper secondary gearing, the 500 EXC will still have no issue cruising at higher speeds.  I have never owned a 500 EXC but I know that they are long-lasting and durable and in fact I have personally witnessed several 500 EXC's exceeding 20,000+ miles of abuse.

As a side note, I do appreciate the inclusion of the actual weights of test bikes preferably with gas tanks empty and gas tanks full. 

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34 minutes ago, Chas_M said:

 

While I agree with many of the things you say, this post contains some glaring misstatements.  Of note, the new 500 EXC still has a semi wide ratio 6 speed trans (not close ratio) although the primary gearing has been lowered a little.  With proper secondary gearing, the 500 EXC will still have no issue cruising at higher speeds.  I have never owned a 500 EXC but I know that they are long-lasting and durable and in fact I have personally witnessed several 500 EXC's exceeding 20,000+ miles of abuse.

As a side note, I do appreciate the inclusion of the actual weights of test bikes preferably with gas tanks empty and gas tanks full. 

The wide ratio trans of the EXC series is gone. No longer can you run at 6mph in 1st and 90 mph in 6th. Those days are gone.

I too have friends with 500exc's with hundreds of hours on them.... but I do not consider it a 'light' motorcycle either. It's basically the same as everyone else. Within 10 lbs. 

My concern is the turning of a thread into a chat room of 'disgust'.  I posted a link to a nice review, and immediately the disgust was posted. It's so sad.  I countered with more disgust, which was the wrong approach, but why....WHY....must every thread turn into am off-topic chat room of what people don't like?

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Fairly said.

Anyway, Betas are the shizzle; I'm thoroughly enjoying mine.  Very nice to see the moto press taking note of what Beta is bringing to the table, and thanks for posting the article - it is pretty darned good.

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Nice review and as the proud owner of a new '17 390rrs, I'd have to agree with cycle news.  

The bike is a solid performer right out of the box and as a 15 year vetran of riding 2-strokes, I can say this bike has no weight issues on the trail.  It took me all of 5 minutes to transition to riding this 390 and it feels nimble and planted at the same time, which other manufacturers have a difficult time putting together.  

I've owned 8 KTM's, 4 GasGas, along with about 20 other bikes over the years and Beta has things dialed!  They have the whole package, motor, suspension, handling, ergos.  

The Beta handles as good as my GasGas, which is an accomplishment as GasGas has the best handling bikes.  The suspension is as good as I've had, including WP, Ohlins, Zokes, KYB.  It reminds me of KYB the most.  The motor is unbelievable and by far the best I've ever ridden including the '17 Husqvarna TE300 and FE450. 

I'm totally bias I'm sure, but been in this game a longtime and the Beta 390 is the real deal!

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Great review for us biased Beta owners!  Kind of cements my feeling on what my next bike will be.  

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Is the only alt to the RR-S the RR-E? No standard 390RR any more? And is it a sure thing that the kick starter can be added to the '18?

Edited by YHGEORGE

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5 hours ago, Krannie McKranface said:

The wide ratio trans of the EXC series is gone. No longer can you run at 6mph in 1st and 90 mph in 6th. Those days are gone.

I too have friends with 500exc's with hundreds of hours on them.... but I do not consider it a 'light' motorcycle either. It's basically the same as everyone else. Within 10 lbs. 

My concern is the turning of a thread into a chat room of 'disgust'.  I posted a link to a nice review, and immediately the disgust was posted. It's so sad.  I countered with more disgust, which was the wrong approach, but why....WHY....must every thread turn into am off-topic chat room of what people don't like?

I have to agree with your last statements.  Why do some guys jump on these threads only to debate all the minutia? I thought we all loved riding dirt bikes???

Anyway, I think the 390 Beta sounds very sweet and I'm looking forward to the 2018 390 RR-S with some minor mods. 

BTW, all the new bikes these days are VERY good, and debating all the little things is just splitting hairs.   If you can ride, you can ride anything, and a few pounds plus or minus is not a show stopper!

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3 hours ago, YHGEORGE said:

Is the only alt to the RR-S the RR-E? No standard 390RR any more? And is it a sure thing that the kick starter can be added to the '18?

No standard RR four strokes in the USA. RR-S is the US only bike that we get instead. 

Yes for sure you can add kickstart. 

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3 hours ago, YHGEORGE said:

Is the only alt to the RR-S the RR-E? No standard 390RR any more? And is it a sure thing that the kick starter can be added to the '18?

Haven't heard of the RR-E.  From what I know it's the plated version or the race version.  The 2018 RR will have a dual fuel injection system and the RR-S will not.  That is coming from Beta after I sent them an email last Friday.  I don't really know what all the benefits are from dual injection, but it's probably better for mapping.

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