Do i Clutch when downshift?

[Creeature]

I was taught not to clutch when downshifting. Pulling in the clutch and freewheeling into corners is terrible form...

When up shifting its better to slip the clutch to take the load off...

[Russhole]

Seems there's a disagreeance in the force. Just be smart about it. If you're going 50mph and cram it down into 1st, you're gonna have bad time. One gear change down without the clutch is very normal. 

[Jason76]

Personally I stab the clutch a small amount when upshifting out of habit, but never downshifting.  I ride strictly trails though, not mx

[NCPT]

Wow.....I had now idea so many guys skip the clutch when shifting. Lol, I use my clutch for everything....wheelies, stalling, taking off, shifting, looping out

[green450machine]

23 minutes ago, CDNSXV said:

A Rekluse only slips the clutch at low rpm.  As long as the motor is spinning, the clutch is fully engaged, just like any other.

That's not entirely true. The rekluse does disengage when you let off the gas. It simply uses centrifical force to cam the plates out same as pulling in the clutch. Yes you need to briefly let off the gas when shifting with or without a rekluse. This releases the torque and creates backlash in the trans allowing for shifting even when RPM'S are still high but rapidly falling off. This timing is easily learned. You will get this down quickly. To your comment, the clutch on a rekluse is completely disengaged during idle. Otherwise it would die when you kick it in gear. As you begin to open the throttle the centrifical force of the clutch spinning will engage the clutch. I have a rekluse and I never use my clutch anymore. I love it! To the originator of this post, use your clutch when up shifting but no need to pull it in completely just feather it. You will soon figure out how much and when to use it. You will be better served learning how to use it in slow difficult areas. Keeping the bike from stalling is key. Slipping the clutch on slippery hills can keep you from breaking traction. 

Good luck

[Mr.mudman112]

I see everyone's point here and I'm glad nobodies lost there minds at one another so thanks to all those who have input there opinion civilly. I'm still going to bear on the side of my common sense and understanding of clutching, which is separating the drive of the engine from now he drive of the transmission. When clutch is disengaged, transmission is able to move freely under no power or drive of the engine, therefore leading me to believe that there is little to no gear resistance upon shifting. I think if you can, you should separate your drive plate from your clutch plate. That's just how I see it.

This topic is pretty controversial and it's really up to the comfort of the rider. Best of luck to those who feel otherwise, just keep on riding!

[moose_338]

Been shifting without the clutch for the last 20 years, most of my riding buddies do the same. Once you're moving it makes 0 difference if you use the clutch or not. Non of us has ruined or worn out a transmission before it's time. If you take the time to learn how your tranny works you will know that it makes no difference and has no adverse affects to your bike. And this practice is used in other forms of motorsports as well.

[76xtdrvr]

There's a situation and technique for both. Experience will dictate when the time is right to use either.

[Jeffrey Torgalski]

On 7/8/2017 at 5:33 PM, CDNSXV said:

Roll the throttle off before shifting.  Zero strain on the transmission or driveline.  Its not rocket science.  Roadracers have been doing this for decades and their tires are firmly connected to pavement.  

After 30 years of riding I've never seen a damaged transmission from clutchless shifting.

I missed some very important bike time this year because of my clutch failing and because of it not properly engaging when shifting. Shift fork bent. Gears were grinding. Essentially, because my clutch was failing, it was clutchless shifting that caused this accelerated damage. If you ride the bike hard on the gas during shifts and don't engage the clutch (how much you engage it is your choice), your transmission will fail. If you look into bent shift forks on this website you will find evidence of the same fate I suffered. Any other information you get from this topic should be disregarded because I see a lot of absolute sh!t advice being dished out, here.

I know that it's coming to you with the intention of helping, but they haven't had to deal with the experience of a transmission failure.

A shift fork is $55 (at least), plus over 150 bucks in circlips, gaskets and a LOT of time in engine teardown and reassembly before you can ride again.

[Mr.mudman112]

I missed some very important bike time this year because of my clutch failing and because of it not properly engaging when shifting. Shift fork bent. Gears were grinding. Essentially, because my clutch was failing, it was clutchless shifting that caused this accelerated damage. If you ride the bike hard on the gas during shifts and don't engage the clutch (how much you engage it is your choice), your transmission will fail. If you look into bent shift forks on this website you will find evidence of the same fate I suffered. Any other information you get from this topic should be disregarded because I see a lot of absolute sh!t advice being dished out, here.
I know that it's coming to you with the intention of helping, but they haven't had to deal with the experience of a transmission failure.
A shift fork is $55 (at least), plus over 150 bucks in circlips, gaskets and a LOT of time in engine teardown and reassembly before you can ride again.

This is what I've been trying to explain over this whole time[emoji23]

That's why you have two dirt bikes. When one is broken you can still ride. I say the same thing about firearms.

What if your someone like me who only has their one CR250? Then what?

[Mr.mudman112]

Been shifting without the clutch for the last 20 years, most of my riding buddies do the same. Once you're moving it makes 0 difference if you use the clutch or not. Non of us has ruined or worn out a transmission before it's time. If you take the time to learn how your tranny works you will know that it makes no difference and has no adverse affects to your bike. And this practice is used in other forms of motorsports as well.

None of us?! I run a small engines shop on the side of my actual career, do you know how many bikes in particular I've seen with broken circlips, shredded gears, twisted shifter forks, oil changes with chunks of old gears in them, come in? I've seen too many bottom ends rebuilt from the lack of proper clutching.

I'm on jeffery togralskis (correct me if I've mistaken your name) side with this, to OP, clutch WHENEVER you are shifting, a lot of the crap said by these guys is false, believe me.

Wow.....I had now idea so many guys skip the clutch when shifting. Lol, I use my clutch for everything....wheelies, stalling, taking off, shifting, looping out

Good, your bike will thank you for it!

[Mr.mudman112]

Your transmission is turning weather you have the clutch pulled in or not.
Clutch just cuts torque from the out put shaft. Same as letting off the gas.
 

Did you just try to tell me all torque from the engine, is completely gone if you just roll off the throttle and somehow that disengages your plates?

I like to think of the gearbox and the actual engine as two separate aspects of your engine, and the clutch is what connects them, which it does in theory. If your just "rolling off the gas" there's still motor output going through your clutch, (revs decreasing, idle RPMs etc). If you ask any engine mechanic, I'm sure the popular vote would be clutch in whenever you shift.

[David C]

Did you just try to tell me all torque from the engine, is completely gone if you just roll off the throttle and somehow that disengages your plates?

I like to think of the gearbox and the actual engine as two separate aspects of your engine, and the clutch is what connects them, which it does in theory. If your just "rolling off the gas" there's still motor output going through your clutch, (revs decreasing, idle RPMs etc). If you ask any engine mechanic, I'm sure the popular vote would be clutch in whenever you shift.

Not torque from the engine but from the rear wheel or the output shaft.

[GoneDirtBikeN]

On 7/8/2017 at 1:11 PM, Snaiper1990 said:

Hey guys just got my bike today starting to learn how to ride, got kx250f just wondering do i have to use clutch when downshifting, im just worried about tranny i know you do when you come to tight corner and want to slow down, but in general do i have to thx help is appreciated ?

So now that you read through all the posts and know the in's-n-out's of needing or not needing the clutch to shift...

I would say a beginner (I'm at a stage not much past beginner) should use the clutch on downshift. You'll be decelerating more so, and for a longer period of time, than the "fast guys" (going into corners) so you will have pressure on the gear cogs and if that is so a good nip of the clutch will take the stress off the gears while shifting. I nip the clutch downshifting as at my stage, not doing so doesn't really buy me anything speed wise. Way too much other stuff going on while riding the MX track for me to remember if I'm upshifting or downshifting and when or when not to use the clutch. Much better for me to just always nip the clutch when shifting and worry about other stuff.

Do you want or need to be the "fast guy" and don't mind putting a bit more wear-n-tear on your dirt bike - then learn to not use the clutch when downshifting. 

Edit: Oh, I now see William1 already said this...

Edited July 10, 2017 by GoneDirtBikeN

[WWalker]

Trade your KX in for a KLX110 then you'll never have to worry about using a clutch.

[Snaiper1990]

Thank you everyone for help ?

[Hudson Charlton]

Wow I didn't know there was so much controversy on this! I have always been confused on this, so I just always use the clutch. It's really not that hard so why take the risk. They put a clutch on bikes for a reason; not just for take off.

[OLHILLBILLY]

This thread has proved to be very entertaining. ?

For dirt, I use the clutch to take off, then to cross the neutral gate from 1st to 2nd, then never again. Street bikes I will use it to get to the afore mentioned 2nd gear, and on downshifts. Since the middle '70's (bought my first bike in late 1975), I've never had a transmission failure due to not using the clutch.

Just my experience. Some people can tear up a steel ball with a rubber hammer, so do whatever you're comfortable with.. ?

[William1]

I tell people to always use the clutch and not to 'ride it'. A time will come when experience and ability will modify this.

When I ride a bike or drive a car, I never ever think about it. Use or lack of is second nature and the details of the moment dictate what is the right technique to use. Though I do use it 98% of the time.

So the simple rule is, if you have to ask if you should use the clutch, the answer is 'yes'.

[calihusky]

I always used to use the clutch for shifting. Then a few years ago I took a lesson with Sebastian Tortelli and he told me not to use the clutch when downshifting. He said if you are upshifting while hard on the throttle you could make the argument to stab the clutch but it's not a big deal if you don't.