Falling OUT of love with my 2017

[Retromlc]

Ok,first a short bit about me,I have owned and maintained all my bikes,I am not a hamfisted hammer wealding idiot and I have never had an experience like this bike.

I bought a new 2017 250 RR ,in May,after owning a 300 Racing for 2.5 years,I spent a lot of time working on the 300, and would regularly take it apart for routine maintenance and never had an issue with the bike,I've fitted a Lectron,Rekluse etc without issues,played with the carburation on the std carb.

So I get the bike and set about doing my own checks,which are usually regrease everything and go over the bike,

Firstly there is barely any grease in any of the bearings,and none it the top shock mount at all,there was much less than in the 300 when I bought it.

Then to fit a new spring and do the regrease my usual process is to lift the subframe out of the way,on lower subframe bolts the one side is in firm but with care I get it undone the thread is completely covered in locktight ,go to do the other side and I'm being careful,the bolt turns,but no it's actually rolled the Allen "hole" because the nut is made of putty and it is absolutely solid,I have spent the last few months trying to get it out so what's left of the head is ruined,option now is to grind it off and try and get what's left out.i took it to a garage to consider welding a nut on but they advised against it as it could damage the frame due to heat and wreck the paint.

While running it in on local trails the speedo pick up sensor vanished,unavailable from beta so ordered a KTM pickup hoping it is a generic part.

Next thing it weeping from the clutch slave cylinder on gearbox,remove to inspect and the rubber gator on piston has been pinched while being fitted in factory.

The speedo has stopped working,not the part that would use the pickup,it just going on and off,won't hold the time etc, my 300 speedo still had the same battery and never faultered,

The cooling system is being pressurised ( plenty on here about that ) so ordered and fitted the KTM O-rings the original O-rings seemed to have very small torn lips on it.While taking the head to frame bracket off the first bolt on frame comes out as expected,the other side requires to be undone the whole way with effort and it has been fitted at the factory cross-threaded as there is insert debris on the bolt,but during reassemble I go to torque the head to frame bracket to the recommended 35 nm, my usual practice is to pre torque all bolts just short of recommended value,and I can feel the thread start to strip at my first pre tighten of 28nm,so I stopped before that rolled,( I use a high quality torque wrench.And today balls up,is there is so muck spooge I decided to check what is in the carb (this was probably the dealers fault as they would have changed the jets and needle when PD. The shop said you don't need to touch the carb settings so leave it alone,odd comment I thought at the timeI) but trying to get the top off to check the needle with the Allen key ballend the little top nut is in so tight the ball breaks off in the nut,that's going to be a blast to get out!!!

I never had a single problem with the 300 but this has been a nightmare,seriously considering selling the bike and going to a different brand ,I can only assume to keep the costs down they are cutting quality with reference to the soft as shite bolts or they have employed untrained labour to keep up with demand and these monkeys are not doing their jobs properly.either way I'm very disappointed with the build of this 17.

I'm sure someone will say I'm being hamfisted but I prep most of my mates bikes if they are busy and I enjoy working on bikes so have plenty of experience..

It might be small issues with over zealous application of locktight,or a faulty batch of o-rings,a rushed pdi mechanics but it's pissing me off

 And to top it of,the seat has a small rip in it,it is paper thin,my 300racing took years of hard riding abuse and nothing,it is different material but the standard stuff is like paper,and you can't get it

[ohiodrz400sm]

That's sucks. Maybe a little too much vino at lunch on 250RR day?

Knock on wood, the only issue with my 17 XT was a horn mounted crooked allowing the terminals the short on the frame. Still like you said about the fasteners, they must of got red loctite on sale for cheap because the crap is everywhere.

[Berto300]

Hey Retro,

Some bad luck there for sure. I feel your pain with the quality issues. I have had some quality issues myself on my 17 300rr, some unique, others more common. So far this is my Beta issues.

1. Front brake hose won't hold in the clamp on the fork guard. Result first ride brake hose rubbed on spokes, wore black coating off spokes and worn brake hose. Zip tied to hold in place.

2. Small crash in 1st gear results in crack in rear sub frame. Just put superglue on it.

3. Both tangs on sub frame that help anchor the seat down broken off. No fix for this.

4. Oil injection system failure caused by corroded diode/capacitor. Battery also boiled as the failed diode/capacitor causes overcharge. Dealer repairs diode/capacitor and also piston and rings due to running with no oil. Still running battery seems ok at this stage.

5. Fork tubes have worn anodising on the inside where the fork bushes run. This was found when I changed out the fork springs for my weight. Dealer contacted importer about issue and importer replies this is nothing to worry about. 

All this in less than 30 hours.

So the question is would you buy a Beta again?

Damn sure I won't.

Really hope anyone considering buying a Beta knows about these quality issues

 

[weantright]

Oh boy, wait until the cheerleaders hear about this!

You are rolling the dice when buying new with all brands.

[Retromlc]

Yeah I know,its a Friday bike. I guess I've had more issues with this bike compared to the zero I had with the 300, it'll pass and I'll get back into it,just bloody frustrating as when I go to do something to it I have to wonder what is going to slow me down or break

[NW_drZ]

Hey Retro,
Some bad luck there for sure. I feel your pain with the quality issues. I have had some quality issues myself on my 17 300rr, some unique, others more common. So far this is my Beta issues.
1. Front brake hose won't hold in the clamp on the fork guard. Result first ride brake hose rubbed on spokes, wore black coating off spokes and worn brake hose. Zip tied to hold in place.
2. Small crash in 1st gear results in crack in rear sub frame. Just put superglue on it.
3. Both tangs on sub frame that help anchor the seat down broken off. No fix for this.
4. Oil injection system failure caused by corroded diode/capacitor. Battery also boiled as the failed diode/capacitor causes overcharge. Dealer repairs diode/capacitor and also piston and rings due to running with no oil. Still running battery seems ok at this stage.
5. Fork tubes have worn anodising on the inside where the fork bushes run. This was found when I changed out the fork springs for my weight. Dealer contacted importer about issue and importer replies this is nothing to worry about. 
All this in less than 30 hours.
So the question is would you buy a Beta again?
Damn sure I won't.
Really hope anyone considering buying a Beta knows about these quality issues
 

Put some rubber shrink tube around the brake line where it clamps, almost like a shim. That will secure it. As far as the seat guides breaking off, did you accidentally install the seat with the guide receivers on top of subframe tabs? And your weight pressed on it broke them. Just curious as I could see that happening. I always kneel down and look while I guide my seat on. That seems to me the only way they would break. I have had some small issues with my 17' as well. Excessive clutch drag when new and faulty head orings. A couple other small things that were easily rectified. The bike absolutely rips and is a lot of fun, but I agree it's a bummer having issues when you get a brand new bike.

[afm774]

I feel you. See here 

I've ironed out most issues and learned to live with others. I love the bike though.

[Johnny Depp]

I'm on my 3rd I-phone 7plus in 3 months. Stuff happens. It's a hassle, but thank goodness for warranties for the truly troubling issues.

[hawaiidirtrider]

On 7/8/2017 at 9:59 PM, Retromlc said:

Ok,first a short bit about me,I have owned and maintained all my bikes,I am not a hamfisted hammer wealding idiot and I have never had an experience like this bike.

I bought a new 2017 250 RR ,in May,after owning a 300 Racing for 2.5 years,I spent a lot of time working on the 300, and would regularly take it apart for routine maintenance and never had an issue with the bike,I've fitted a Lectron,Rekluse etc without issues,played with the carburation on the std carb.

So I get the bike and set about doing my own checks,which are usually regrease everything and go over the bike,

Firstly there is barely any grease in any of the bearings,and none it the top shock mount at all,there was much less than in the 300 when I bought it.

Then to fit a new spring and do the regrease my usual process is to lift the subframe out of the way,on lower subframe bolts the one side is in firm but with care I get it undone the thread is completely covered in locktight ,go to do the other side and I'm being careful,the bolt turns,but no it's actually rolled the Allen "hole" because the nut is made of putty and it is absolutely solid,I have spent the last few months trying to get it out so what's left of the head is ruined,option now is to grind it off and try and get what's left out.i took it to a garage to consider welding a nut on but they advised against it as it could damage the frame due to heat and wreck the paint.

While running it in on local trails the speedo pick up sensor vanished,unavailable from beta so ordered a KTM pickup hoping it is a generic part.

Next thing it weeping from the clutch slave cylinder on gearbox,remove to inspect and the rubber gator on piston has been pinched while being fitted in factory.

The speedo has stopped working,not the part that would use the pickup,it just going on and off,won't hold the time etc, my 300 speedo still had the same battery and never faultered,

The cooling system is being pressurised ( plenty on here about that ) so ordered and fitted the KTM O-rings the original O-rings seemed to have very small torn lips on it.While taking the head to frame bracket off the first bolt on frame comes out as expected,the other side requires to be undone the whole way with effort and it has been fitted at the factory cross-threaded as there is insert debris on the bolt,but during reassemble I go to torque the head to frame bracket to the recommended 35 nm, my usual practice is to pre torque all bolts just short of recommended value,and I can feel the thread start to strip at my first pre tighten of 28nm,so I stopped before that rolled,( I use a high quality torque wrench.And today balls up,is there is so muck spooge I decided to check what is in the carb (this was probably the dealers fault as they would have changed the jets and needle when PD. The shop said you don't need to touch the carb settings so leave it alone,odd comment I thought at the timeI) but trying to get the top off to check the needle with the Allen key ballend the little top nut is in so tight the ball breaks off in the nut,that's going to be a blast to get out!!!

I never had a single problem with the 300 but this has been a nightmare,seriously considering selling the bike and going to a different brand ,I can only assume to keep the costs down they are cutting quality with reference to the soft as shite bolts or they have employed untrained labour to keep up with demand and these monkeys are not doing their jobs properly.either way I'm very disappointed with the build of this 17.

I'm sure someone will say I'm being hamfisted but I prep most of my mates bikes if they are busy and I enjoy working on bikes so have plenty of experience..

It might be small issues with over zealous application of locktight,or a faulty batch of o-rings,a rushed pdi mechanics but it's pissing me off

 And to top it of,the seat has a small rip in it,it is paper thin,my 300racing took years of hard riding abuse and nothing,it is different material but the standard stuff is like paper,and you can't get it

Take it in.. make use of the warranty.  If it really bothers you sell it and buy another bike . Life is short.. get what you like. I'm totally happy with my 15 300rr  

Edited July 12, 2017 by hawaiidirtrider

[GP]

Whats most disturbing on the new bikes is the suspension wear reports, especially the shock, which has in the past been exceptionally durable.  Most of the other stuff is typical and to be expected on a Euro bike with a mile of wire and crappy open connectors packaged less than ideal.  Expecting this to work reliably long term is just silly.  Not sure whats up with your subframe but I'd guess the seat wasn't installed correctly.  Sure seems like the first few years are very solid, with exception of the Zoke 48s.  Why I'm keeping my well dialed '13.

[FUHL]

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 0:59 AM, Retromlc said:

 

I never had a single problem with the 300 but this has been a nightmare,seriously considering selling the bike and going to a different brand ,I can only assume to keep the costs down they are cutting quality with reference to the soft as shite bolts or they have employed untrained labour to keep up with demand and these monkeys are not doing their jobs properly.either way I'm very disappointed with the build of this 17.

 

Soft Bolts? Have you ever owned a Yamaha?

 

 

On my Xtrainer the Bolts that holed the shrouds to the tank seized on mine. I had to use an Easy Out and I replaced them with a larger Allen head and used Anti-seize.

Edited July 12, 2017 by FUHL

[k4f5x0r]

23 minutes ago, FUHL said:

Soft Bolts? Have you ever owned a Yamaha?

 

 

On my Xtrainer the Bolts that holed the shrouds to the tank seized on mine. I had to use an Easy Out and I replaced them with a larger Allen head and used Anti-seize.

Suzuki bolts are by far the mushiest most junk metal in my experience.

I can say the hardware on my 16 300rr is some of the nicer hardware from the factory IMO but some of the bolt certainly were not loctite'd or snugged tight enough.  Mostly just bolts holding the plastics on.

Sounds like you may have gotten a monday morning/friday afternoon bike.. My 16 had grease splooging out of every orifice and besides a few bolts rattling out in the first few rides the only issue is Dash batteries dying constantly.

[FORMA MOTO]

My 430RR RE is not trouble free either.  Four warranty repairs, none so far out of warranty. Cracking non-structural frame tabs, flexy brake pedal, no welded nuts behind some of the tabs (just threaded tab holes),  suspect wire harness manangement, grade 3 bolts in places where they should be 8 or higher, and strangely shaped bolt heads that strip easily due to the head shape.  It's still obviously built by hand, and by 'assembly guys', not 'technicians', in the factory.  Rumor has it that they have been at 120+% of build capacity (floor space, trained managers) for two years, so that explains a lot.  It is very reminiscent of KTM in the early 2000's, and in 2007/8. Great intentions poorly fullfilled, and some old-world culture draging them down a bit.

Having said all that, I am still very greatful for the ride quality, handling, and power quality over every other 'race ready' bike I have ever owned.  The only bike that comes close is the 2017 Husqvarna 450 XC-F, and that has much smaller ergonomics, softer power, and terrible forks. At least KTM finally figured out how to make their bikes handle...

I am anxious to see what the next generation of these bikes will bring.  

[4Kracing]

4 hours ago, Krannie McKranface said:

My 430RR RE is not trouble free either.  Four warranty repairs, none so far out of warranty. Cracking non-structural frame tabs, flexy brake pedal, no welded nuts behind some of the tabs (just threaded tab holes),  suspect wire harness manangement, grade 3 bolts in places where they should be 8 or higher, and strangely shaped bolt heads that strip easily due to the head shape.  It's still obviously built by hand, and by 'assembly guys', not 'technicians', in the factory.  Rumor has it that they have been at 120+% of build capacity (floor space, trained managers) for two years, so that explains a lot.  It is very reminiscent of KTM in the early 2000's, and in 2007/8. Great intentions poorly fullfilled, and some old-world culture draging them down a bit.

Having said all that, I am still very greatful for the ride quality, handling, and power quality over every other 'race ready' bike I have ever owned.  The only bike that comes close is the 2017 Husqvarna 450 XC-F, and that has much smaller ergonomics, softer power, and terrible forks. At least KTM finally figured out how to make their bikes handle...

I am anxious to see what the next generation of these bikes will bring.  

I'll let you know when I get my 2018.  Still can't fully decide on which one: 390,430,480 RRS. 

[hawaiidirtrider]

44 minutes ago, 4Kracing said:

I'll let you know when I get my 2018.  Still can't fully decide on which one: 390,430,480 RRS. 

I think I'd pick 430.. but idk.. still like big bores.. .. although my 350 and 525 are now being neglected as I ride the 300 rr alot.

Edited July 13, 2017 by hawaiidirtrider

[Lennie]

Those subframe bolts were loctited to the max on mine as well, I got them out but they don't feel nice quality the allen key was not a great fit and the head did looks a bit sorry for itself after just being undone once so swapped for better quality bolts.

Mine came from acklams, I think they did a good job on the pdi, they changed the carb jetting as part of pdi so well I have not needed to changed it, bike fells good and does great mpg.

I stripped the bike anyway just to be sure and found everything was well torqued correctly and greased heavily apart from swing arm bearings which were ok for grease but I packed them full to the brim, that was the only "fault" I found.

As you know PDI makes a massive difference, some shops do &%$#@! all some loads.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Lennie

[Doug Fugly]

Wow. Was even looking at Beta's. Thanks for the warnings.

My '14 TE250 Berg, 2800 miles, two blown starter fuses. Guess I'll stick with Austria. Lol

[hawaiidirtrider]

On 7/9/2017 at 11:26 PM, Berto300 said:

Hey Retro,

Some bad luck there for sure. I feel your pain with the quality issues. I have had some quality issues myself on my 17 300rr, some unique, others more common. So far this is my Beta issues.

1. Front brake hose won't hold in the clamp on the fork guard. Result first ride brake hose rubbed on spokes, wore black coating off spokes and worn brake hose. Zip tied to hold in place.

2. Small crash in 1st gear results in crack in rear sub frame. Just put superglue on it.

3. Both tangs on sub frame that help anchor the seat down broken off. No fix for this.

4. Oil injection system failure caused by corroded diode/capacitor. Battery also boiled as the failed diode/capacitor causes overcharge. Dealer repairs diode/capacitor and also piston and rings due to running with no oil. Still running battery seems ok at this stage.

5. Fork tubes have worn anodising on the inside where the fork bushes run. This was found when I changed out the fork springs for my weight. Dealer contacted importer about issue and importer replies this is nothing to worry about. 

All this in less than 30 hours.

So the question is would you buy a Beta again?

Damn sure I won't.

Really hope anyone considering buying a Beta knows about these quality issues

 

OMG  the horror of Beta!!!!  ? ...Everyone sell your bikes!!!! ..  super cheap to me !!! They're no good!!!  I'd like maybe a 2015 500 RS.. and  maybe the new 125 2t enduro.. an Xtrainer.. cheap now too!!!.... since no one will want them.. ..? I'll take them off your hands.. So I'll need a barn to hold em all... I'll take all that quality.

Edited July 13, 2017 by hawaiidirtrider

[hawaiidirtrider]

59 minutes ago, Husa your Daddy? said:

Wow. Was even looking at Beta's. Thanks for the warnings.

My '14 TE250 Berg, 2800 miles, two blown starter fuses. Guess I'll stick with Austria. Lol

Yea don't buy Beta.. they're no good ?

[Doug Fugly]

Yea don't buy Beta.. they're no good [emoji106]

Thought they were, but this quality control thing, no thanks. Surprised that the Italians would allow it.