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Replacement header pipe. What are our options?

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It happened, and it happened with no protection.  I dinged my head pipe on a rock.  It is not bad and I doubt that it even makes a  difference in the power as I didn't feel anything all day yesterday.  Still, for $60, I can get it repaired in CT from the Fusion One outfit that does the repair.  

In my CR500R days, I kept an identical spare pipe so that when I would send one to get fixed, I would not be without a pipe and always had a spare.  I want to do this with the RR-S.  I did a few searches for a new header/head pipe but could only find the FMF Powerbomb on the Beta parts website.  I have no problem paying whatever $219 the thing costs but I wonder, is it true that from the 390cc on up, the 430 and the 480 all use the same head pipe?  If I were put put that FMF powerbomb on, would I need to change anything else or would the FI compensate and just actually give me more power with the small swell/expansion that is part of the pipe?  

 

Where can I find the stock 17 500 RR-S head pipe in case I wanted one?  

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If you dented the header in any way of needing a repair I would check the bolts in the head. These will bend or crack and other issues will arise. Until there a running issue why fix it?? You will just damage it again,,,,,, with your skill per your other posts.

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I called my dealer and while it will take about a week, which is no problem at all, the stock head pipe is $179.57-not bad at all.  I will now have a spare head pipe and can send one out to get fixed and not lose any riding-time.  

The pipe really only has a little nick in it and I'm pretty sure it doesn't effect the massive power output at all, just that I'm sure I'll hit it again sometime so I want to have a spare ready to go and $179 ain't bad at all.  

 

I also ordered the stock steel gears for the oil pump, $189 for those at the dealer-right in line with the Beta parts website so there is no markup which makes me happy.  I may have the dealer install it and be done with that as I'll be having the passenger footpegs installed-for free as it was part of the BYOB but were on backorder till they arrived in April.  I'll have them repair the kickstarter under warranty and I'll pay to have them install the steel oil pump gears at the same time.  

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21 minutes ago, Ben500RR-S said:

I called my dealer and while it will take about a week, which is no problem at all, the stock head pipe is $179.57-not bad at all.  I will now have a spare head pipe and can send one out to get fixed and not lose any riding-time.  

The pipe really only has a little nick in it and I'm pretty sure it doesn't effect the massive power output at all, just that I'm sure I'll hit it again sometime so I want to have a spare ready to go and $179 ain't bad at all.  

 

I also ordered the stock steel gears for the oil pump, $189 for those at the dealer-right in line with the Beta parts website so there is no markup which makes me happy.  I may have the dealer install it and be done with that as I'll be having the passenger footpegs installed-for free as it was part of the BYOB but were on backorder till they arrived in April.  I'll have them repair the kickstarter under warranty and I'll pay to have them install the steel oil pump gears at the same time.  

Oh yeah, I also realized and read that if one goes with an FMF head pipe, an FMF muffler must also be used.  I did not want to go that route, until something happens to the muffler.  The list price for the muffler is just over $1K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I had read, on one of the "how to quiet the 390 RR-S" that, in order for the FMF stuff to work correctly, the bike needs to go to the dealer to be reflashed to the FMF program.  I don't want to have to go that route.  I like the way things are stock, for now.   

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6 hours ago, Ben500RR-S said:

Oh yeah, I also realized and read that if one goes with an FMF head pipe, an FMF muffler must also be used.  I did not want to go that route, until something happens to the muffler.  The list price for the muffler is just over $1K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, I know the FMF mufflers fit with the OEM head pipe and I've been told by a few that the FMF head pipe WILL work with the OEM muffler, hmmmmm....... Ok 

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On 7/9/2017 at 6:46 PM, Ben500RR-S said:

It happened, and it happened with no protection.  I dinged my head pipe on a rock.  It is not bad and I doubt that it even makes a  difference in the power as I didn't feel anything all day yesterday.  Still, for $60, I can get it repaired in CT from the Fusion One outfit that does the repair.  

In my CR500R days, I kept an identical spare pipe so that when I would send one to get fixed, I would not be without a pipe and always had a spare.  I want to do this with the RR-S.  I did a few searches for a new header/head pipe but could only find the FMF Powerbomb on the Beta parts website.  I have no problem paying whatever $219 the thing costs but I wonder, is it true that from the 390cc on up, the 430 and the 480 all use the same head pipe?  If I were put put that FMF powerbomb on, would I need to change anything else or would the FI compensate and just actually give me more power with the small swell/expansion that is part of the pipe?  

 

Where can I find the stock 17 500 RR-S head pipe in case I wanted one?  

Remove the header pipe

Cover one end up with rubber plug or similar

Fill it with water

Stand it up in your freezer so the water doesn't run out. Leave it in for 2 days. Inspect.

Still some ding? Melt it and start over.

Repeat until the ding is gone

You don't have to plug both ends, so if it's in the middle bend, you don't have to plug either at all.

I've done this about 8 times with great success

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4 hours ago, Krannie McKranface said:

Remove the header pipe

Cover one end up with rubber plug or similar

Fill it with water

Stand it up in your freezer so the water doesn't run out. Leave it in for 2 days. Inspect.

Still some ding? Melt it and start over.

Repeat until the ding is gone

You don't have to plug both ends, so if it's in the middle bend, you don't have to plug either at all.

I've done this about 8 times with great success

good one krannie.. I've been looking for a guard for my 350 rr but not liking the carbon fiber guard much.. might like a flatland if they made one.. but it's kind of lame that I have titanium screw set for a race bike.. and got all these guards on the bike that weigh more.. like a big ricochet skid plate..I know I'm figuring I'll dent the header .. I replaced the header as it was dented when I bought the bike.   This is all I've seen so far beyond the generic ones..

http://www.motosupply.com/beta-beta-rrrsrr-beta-stroke-header-guard-p-495.html

Beta%20AB-10256.jpg

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Stock muffler will work with the FMF header pipe. Don't need to re-map for just the header pipe. Only need to when using FMF muffler. 

Interesting I noticed Jordan Ashburn has been running a stock header pipe with FMF Q on his 430 race bike. 

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krannie, so the stock pipe flows better than the powerbomb?

would you have to get the bike flashed for the stock header and powerbomb muffler? 

also it looks like the powerbomb muffler is shorter than either the q or the stocker, is this true?

thanks.

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38 minutes ago, surfer-dude said:

krannie, so the stock pipe flows better than the powerbomb?

would you have to get the bike flashed for the stock header and powerbomb muffler? 

also it looks like the powerbomb muffler is shorter than either the q or the stocker, is this true?

thanks.

I totally agree that the OEM pipe is larger in diameter than a FMF, but diameter does not equal 4-stroke scavenging efficiency when people design in a "power bomb" section different things happen. Case in point my Beta had a stock OEM header pipe (same size as the new 430/500 motors) and a Powercore4 muffler and after rejetting for the FMF muffler it ran VERY nice with more "get-up-and-go" then I added a FMF power bomb header, it created a new leaning condition all the way across the powerband, enough to necessitate a slight rejetting again. Slight increase in scavaging efficiency with FMF header, yes, very much? Hmmm, very small increase, but not a decrease that's obvious. But then bore/stroke play into the equation also which is a variable to throw in to the mix....

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On 7/11/2017 at 9:46 PM, THE KRAN said:

Remove the header pipe

Cover one end up with rubber plug or similar

Fill it with water

Stand it up in your freezer so the water doesn't run out. Leave it in for 2 days. Inspect.

Still some ding? Melt it and start over.

Repeat until the ding is gone

You don't have to plug both ends, so if it's in the middle bend, you don't have to plug either at all.

I've done this about 8 times with great success

I was totally skeptical about trying this as up here in New England, we deal with burst pipes all the time when people turn their power off/heat off and their pipes freeze or for any other number of reasons as to why people's pipes freeze and burst up here.  

I went on vacation and had a S/S bottle that had a dent in it.  I had put the same bottle that had no dents in the freezer and it had popped the bottom out so much that I had to hammer it down so the bottle would stand upright again.  Anyway, I put water in the bottle, put it in the freezer and lo and behold, the dent came out, I can hardly tell where the dent was.  

 

As the tiny dent in my headpipe is in the middle of the pipe, I will put enough water in the pipe so it lays where the dent is, I'll stand it up so the water does not come out and give it a day or two.  

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13 hours ago, Ben500RR-S said:

I was totally skeptical about trying this as up here in New England, we deal with burst pipes all the time when people turn their power off/heat off and their pipes freeze or for any other number of reasons as to why people's pipes freeze and burst up here.  

I went on vacation and had a S/S bottle that had a dent in it.  I had put the same bottle that had no dents in the freezer and it had popped the bottom out so much that I had to hammer it down so the bottle would stand upright again.  Anyway, I put water in the bottle, put it in the freezer and lo and behold, the dent came out, I can hardly tell where the dent was.  

 

As the tiny dent in my headpipe is in the middle of the pipe, I will put enough water in the pipe so it lays where the dent is, I'll stand it up so the water does not come out and give it a day or two.  

Hey it's free if it doesn't work buy one..can't lose

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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On 7/12/2017 at 11:36 PM, Mark-us-B said:

I totally agree that the OEM pipe is larger in diameter than a FMF, but diameter does not equal 4-stroke scavenging efficiency when people design in a "power bomb" section different things happen. Case in point my Beta had a stock OEM header pipe (same size as the new 430/500 motors) and a Powercore4 muffler and after rejetting for the FMF muffler it ran VERY nice with more "get-up-and-go" then I added a FMF power bomb header, it created a new leaning condition all the way across the powerband, enough to necessitate a slight rejetting again. Slight increase in scavaging efficiency with FMF header, yes, very much? Hmmm, very small increase, but not a decrease that's obvious. But then bore/stroke play into the equation also which is a variable to throw in to the mix....

FMF and everyone else's claim that a resonator improves scavanging is proven wrong by the fact that virtually no other race motor outside of dirt bikes, uses such a thing for such a supposed purpose.

A resonator chamber is actually a 'helmholtz resonator' and acoustic reflex device, that creates an out-of-phase pulse the fools the motor into thinking the header a few inches longer, and fools you ear into thinking it's quieter by a couple decibles.  By design it cannot scavange better by just having a resonator. In fact, it will scavange worse.

Having said that, you can use this resonator to 'fix' a flat spot in off idle power, which is exactly what FMF does, while increasing scavenging in higher rpm tuning, getting the best of both worlds.

Yes, maximum pipe diameter is not by itself the key to more or better power. It's just a piece of tubing that performs a very complex function by the nature of its shape, diameter, lenghth, and resonators.

I have tried the FMF power bomb, Boano, and stock in multiple configurations and the stock header with the FMF PC4 pipe is signifigantly better on my 430RRRE.  Add in a .62 TPS voltage and viola, it's actually almost a fast bike.

Oh, and comparing any motor pre 2015 to any motor 2015 and later is pretty invalid. There is almost nothing to compare, accept their apperance.

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On 8/14/2017 at 2:52 AM, hawaiidirtrider said:

Hey it's free if it doesn't work buy one..can't lose

In a way, there is about $170 to lose, if the pipe is split open by the frozen water, instead of paying $60 plus shipping to get the pipe repaired, one is out $170.  

I do have a new pipe ready to go on but I'm waiting to dent the pipe more before I send it out-ha!  

 

 

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