mferring1

17 500 RR-S Throttle stepper motor adjustment

64 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, YHGEORGE said:

I dearly love my Mikuni! More each day.

I have over 1000 hrs combined on FI bikes and none have been troublesome even when submerged in dirty water. Sure there's some people having trouble but it's not widespread and all are very fixable even with EPA mandates. The issue at hand are riders unfamiliar with the system and it scares them.

Edited by weantright
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On 7/11/2017 at 11:01 PM, THE KRAN said:

When ever I have a hanging idle issue, I just do the passive ECU reset for 6+ minutes, and it all fixes it self.

 

Disconnect the battery for 6+ min? Or disconnect the ECU?

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3 minutes ago, matgaz said:

Disconnect the battery for 6+ min? Or disconnect the ECU?

Disconnect nothing.

Start the bike cold with no throttle. NO throttle for 6 min, or when the left radiator is up to full temp (230+)

Shut off motor, re start. 

Re-centers range of adjustment and usually solves hanging idle and off-idle rich conditions.

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On 7/13/2017 at 5:02 AM, weantright said:

This solenoid has been known to leak grease from the inside reducing the closing speed of the bypass. This will stall the motor similar to a flameout and affect the idle. This solenoid is a sealed unit but you can clean the shaft which is the area affected.

I tried unplugging my sensor cable to the stepper motor, with no change....but I did not try a passive reset.....

I am going to take mine apart and investigate why it creates intermitant hanging idle.

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Has anyone thought of simply replacing the troublesome FI with a far more reliable and easier to tune FCR carb? I see more and more KTM's, Yamahas, and Hondas dead on the trail due to some glitch with the FI. 

It's really a shame you guys are having so many issues. I am so happy I got a carbed bike! The time it takes you to plug in a tuner, I can hit the start button and motor away sputter free. I also have the ability to reach down and adjust my idle right where I need it. 

I sure do hope that these companies can sort out the FI problems in the next decade or so when I'm ready to buy another dirt bike. 

BTW, what are you guys using to tune those FI Betas? I have a set of jets I don't even use. My Beta FCR fueling is 100% flawless. I'll keep my tow rope available for you on the trail.

 

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7 hours ago, ballisticexchris said:

Has anyone thought of simply replacing the troublesome FI with a far more reliable and easier to tune FCR carb? I see more and more KTM's, Yamahas, and Hondas dead on the trail due to some glitch with the FI. 

It's really a shame you guys are having so many issues. I am so happy I got a carbed bike! The time it takes you to plug in a tuner, I can hit the start button and motor away sputter free. I also have the ability to reach down and adjust my idle right where I need it. 

I sure do hope that these companies can sort out the FI problems in the next decade or so when I'm ready to buy another dirt bike. 

BTW, what are you guys using to tune those FI Betas? I have a set of jets I don't even use. My Beta FCR fueling is 100% flawless. I'll keep my tow rope available for you on the trail.

 

What problems?  One or two guys out of hundreds, or even thousands have a minor issue.  If they all came with carbs I'd bet there'd be more threads on jetting and carb issues than the couple on efi.  My Beta efi bikes have been the best running most trouble free bikes I've ever owned. 

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7 hours ago, ballisticexchris said:

Has anyone thought of simply replacing the troublesome FI with a far more reliable and easier to tune FCR carb? I see more and more KTM's, Yamahas, and Hondas dead on the trail due to some glitch with the FI. 

It's really a shame you guys are having so many issues. I am so happy I got a carbed bike! The time it takes you to plug in a tuner, I can hit the start button and motor away sputter free. I also have the ability to reach down and adjust my idle right where I need it. 

I sure do hope that these companies can sort out the FI problems in the next decade or so when I'm ready to buy another dirt bike. 

BTW, what are you guys using to tune those FI Betas? I have a set of jets I don't even use. My Beta FCR fueling is 100% flawless. I'll keep my tow rope available for you on the trail.

 

I have 10% issues running FI and 80% running carbs,,,, 100% running a carb'ed Betas. 0 issues running Synerject FI system on two bikes. This is not a bash toward Kranny but it seems he has a lot of weird issues with ALL his bikes.

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9 hours ago, ballisticexchris said:

Has anyone thought of simply replacing the troublesome FI with a far more reliable and easier to tune FCR carb? I see more and more KTM's, Yamahas, and Hondas dead on the trail due to some glitch with the FI. 

It's really a shame you guys are having so many issues. I am so happy I got a carbed bike! The time it takes you to plug in a tuner, I can hit the start button and motor away sputter free. I also have the ability to reach down and adjust my idle right where I need it. 

I sure do hope that these companies can sort out the FI problems in the next decade or so when I'm ready to buy another dirt bike. 

BTW, what are you guys using to tune those FI Betas? I have a set of jets I don't even use. My Beta FCR fueling is 100% flawless. I'll keep my tow rope available for you on the trail.

 

Please take your meds

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1 hour ago, weantright said:

I have 10% issues running FI and 80% running carbs,,,, 100% running a carb'ed Betas. 0 issues running Synerject FI system on two bikes. This is not a bash toward Kranny but it seems he has a lot of weird issues with ALL his bikes.

weant:smashpc:right

 

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7 hours ago, Danceswithtrees said:

What problems?  One or two guys out of hundreds, or even thousands have a minor issue.  If they all came with carbs I'd bet there'd be more threads on jetting and carb issues than the couple on efi.  My Beta efi bikes have been the best running most trouble free bikes I've ever owned. 

I'm not talking about issues I read about. It's the ones I see on the trail and in staging area. At elevation the FI dirt bikes are always seeming to have some strange starting issue or just no start with a dead battery. In Benson AZ I motored up on my Beta at the turn around point for my IB. There was a 690 KTM dead in the water waiting for a flatbed. His fuel pump took a crap with no warning.

 

6 hours ago, weantright said:

I have 10% issues running FI and 80% running carbs,,,, 100% running a carb'ed Betas. 0 issues running Synerject FI system on two bikes. This is not a bash toward Kranny but it seems he has a lot of weird issues with ALL his bikes.

Having only met Bill once on the trail, I believe he is simply just very picky with his bikes. Also just by reading the ride reports he puts in way more off road hours on his bikes than almost anyone. I'm willing to bet he is close to or over 100 hours on his Beta. 

Also worth mentioning is Bill is a giant towering over everyone!! Full size bikes look like a minibike when he's seated on them. I can only imagine how hard it is to get the ergonomics dialed in.

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2 hours ago, ballisticexchris said:

I'm not talking about issues I read about. It's the ones I see on the trail and in staging area. At elevation the FI dirt bikes are always seeming to have some strange starting issue or just no start with a dead battery. In Benson AZ I motored up on my Beta at the turn around point for my IB. There was a 690 KTM dead in the water waiting for a flatbed. His fuel pump took a crap with no warning.

Yes KTM's are the majority of efi bikes around here and they do have their issues.  We towed one out with a bad fuel pump, they seem to have trouble starting warm or cold and some of the local 350's are the flame out kings.  I swapped bikes with a 350xcf rider and he asked me, "doesn't this bike ever flame out?", uhm no, never.  My Beta's efi has been awesome and trouble free. 

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Every 'issue' I have seen or experienced with FI is essentially the same kind of experience with any bike; all of the issues are based on neglect, stupidity, or ignorance.

If you think  spending $12k on a bike gives you special privilidge to ignore basic physics, assume the manf was smart or clever, or ignore what dirt and water does to anything on your bike, well, then you deserve to have issues.

ALL KTM"s have junk fuel filters that either clog or fail, getting dirt into the pump, or when clogged starve the pump for it's only lubricant. ALL KTM's need a Golan filter upgrade, filtering of the fuel and treating every tankful for Ethanol contamination.  Disagree? See you in 50-75 hours then....

ALL jap bike FI has great filters, but if you do not filter the gas AND TREAT THE GAS the panty liner type filter gets contaminated and clogs, killing the power and possibly the pump.

ALL FI BIKES PERIOD come with terrible electrical connections at the fuel pump that need to be prepped early.....just like re routing the hoses on a carb, you don't HAVE to do it, but if you don't, don't ask me to help you start you bike after it swamps in a 10" water crossing, or after your FI bike won;'t start.

The BETA uses an automotive fuel filter inside the tank that is HUGE, and is suitable for use on an Audi A4, it is so big. It would never clog or fail. The Pump connections are the German environmental seal type, that will not fail. Can't say that about the fuel level sensor or the Dash computer. Both wirings are engineered by a blind one-armed infant.

MY issues with the BETA Synerject FI are about hanging idle and mapping. Many riders would never notice this, but I am very tall and very overweight, so weight shifting or not shifting forward after a throttle close can be very frustrating if it is inconsistent.  The hanging idle is the Stepper Motor, which I will investigate further when I have the time.

I have gotten in the habit of covering the clutch 24/7 in case I get a push or a dive that might move 90lbs off of the center of gravity.....with two bad shoulders and two bad knees, I have to ride 'inside the sphere of control' which is not all that big. I do ok.

Edited by THE KRAN

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7 minutes ago, THE KRAN said:

Every 'issue' I have seen or experienced with FI is essentially the same kind of experience with any bike; all of the issues are based on neglect, stupidity, or ignorance.

If you think  spending $12k on a bike gives you special privilidge to ignore basic physics, assume the manf was smart or clever, or ignore what dirt and water does to anything on your bike, well, then you deserve to have issues.

ALL KTM"s have junk fuel filters that either clog or fail, getting dirt into the pump, or when clogged starve the pump for it's only lubricant. ALL KTM's need a Golan filter upgrade, filtering of the fuel and treating every tankful for Ethanol contamination.  Disagree? See you in 50-75 hours then....

ALL jap bike FI has great filters, but if you do not filter the gas AND TREAT THE GAS the panty liner type filter gets contaminated and clogs, killing the power and possibly the pump.

ALL FI BIKES PERIOD come with terrible electrical connections at the fuel pump that need to be prepped early.....just like re routing the hoses on a carb, you don't HAVE to do it, but if you don't, don't ask me to help you start you bike after it swamps in a 10" water crossing, or after your FI bike won;'t start.

The BETA uses an automotive fuel filter inside the tank that is HUGE, and is suitable for use on an Audi A4, it is so big. It would never clog or fail. The Pump connections are the German environmental seal type, that will not fail. Can't say that about the fuel level sensor or the Dash computer. Both wirings are engineered by a blind one-armed infant.

MY issues with the BETA Synerject FI are about hanging idle and mapping. Many riders would never notice this, but I am very tall and very overweight, so weight shifting or not shifting forward after a throttle close can be very frustrating if it is inconsistent.  The hanging idle is the Stepper Motor, which I will investigate further when I have the time.

I have gotten in the habit of covering the clutch 24/7 in case I get a push or a dive that might move 90lbs off of the center of gravity.....with two bad shoulders and two bad knees, I have to ride 'inside the sphere of control' which is not all that big. I do ok.

Do you still run your thermostat ?? 

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22 hours ago, ballisticexchris said:

Has anyone thought of simply replacing the troublesome FI with a far more reliable and easier to tune FCR carb? I see more and more KTM's, Yamahas, and Hondas dead on the trail due to some glitch with the FI. 

It's really a shame you guys are having so many issues. I am so happy I got a carbed bike! The time it takes you to plug in a tuner, I can hit the start button and motor away sputter free. I also have the ability to reach down and adjust my idle right where I need it. 

I sure do hope that these companies can sort out the FI problems in the next decade or so when I'm ready to buy another dirt bike. 

BTW, what are you guys using to tune those FI Betas? I have a set of jets I don't even use. My Beta FCR fueling is 100% flawless. I'll keep my tow rope available for you on the trail.

 

I thought about it, and then I went from 300 ft altitude here in TX to our cabin at 10,000 feet in Colorado and when I took the carb apart...oh wait...I didn't have to at all!

Then I came home from Colorado and when I went o put it all back to TX...oh wait...it did that on its own! 

No float bowl screws to chase, no float bowl gasket to worry about, no needle clip to drop, no float setting to accidentally bump and not know until its all back together.

Then I went back to cleaning crap out of juniors KTM 85XC carb....

Signed...super happy FI owner/rider!

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48 minutes ago, MartyMOOSE said:

Do you still run your thermostat ?? 

No. How is that relevant ?  

Edited by THE KRAN

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4 hours ago, THE KRAN said:

No. How is that relevant ?  

The isc is driven based on engine temp, if the bikes temp fluctuates due to no thermostat the idle will change. Beta's I've found are pretty sensitive to this for example when the thermostat opens for the first time during warm up the idle quality is affected. A bike with a fixed idle bleed doesn't have this as much. Just a thought... 

Edited by MartyMOOSE
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5 hours ago, MartyMOOSE said:

The isc is driven based on engine temp, if the bikes temp fluctuates due to no thermostat the idle will change. Beta's I've found are pretty sensitive to this for example when the thermostat opens for the first time during warm up the idle quality is affected. A bike with a fixed idle bleed doesn't have this as much. Just a thought... 

There is no water temprature sender on the BETA. 

 

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27 minutes ago, THE KRAN said:

There is no water temprature sender on the BETA. 

 

Just an idea Krannie I'd be surprised if it didn't I've never seen an injection system that doesn't use one as a major input. I've sold my bike so can't check it but there is one listed on the parts fiche under the head section called a "temp sensor" You can also see it on the engine service manual pictures.....  This may explain your intermittent idles issues worth a look into. 

MM 

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I thought about it, and then I went from 300 ft altitude here in TX to our cabin at 10,000 feet in Colorado and when I took the carb apart...oh wait...I didn't have to at all!



Then I came home from Colorado and when I went o put it all back to TX...oh wait...it did that on its own! 



No float bowl screws to chase, no float bowl gasket to worry about, no needle clip to drop, no float setting to accidentally bump and not know until its all back together.



Then I went back to cleaning crap out of juniors KTM 85XC carb....



Signed...super happy FI owner/rider!

Yup, I just went from sea level in CA to riding at 6-9k ft elevation in UT and the bike started at 40 deg in the morning no problem and ran excellent the whole time. There was a guy on the ride with a DRZ running a FCR carb who was having problems with his floats sticking and flooding the engine. With the current crap gas in CA is a real pain to keep a carb working properly, FI zero effort.

The fuel filter is a key element in the FI system and far too many are too small. Cars have large ones and have zero issues. When the bike companies figure this out all will be well. Beta got it right on that account.
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