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Going down the trail and constantly getting jolts form trail trash. Often from stuff that isn't really big. Just a chop-chop-chop feeling. How do you guys tell if it is compression or rebound that is causing the issue? Thanks.

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Similar issue here, the other guys seem to ride right through it, not me.  I've been thinking about trying a stabilizer?

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Stabilizer will not have anything to do with a jolt unless you are speaking of a deflection issue when hitting things. But most deflection can be cured with proper susp adjustment.  I have had one for many many years, different type of issue.

Edited by YHGEORGE

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You need to go faster, that jolt would need super soft marshmallow suspension to remove it, it would bottom on the first real landing from a 5 foot jump

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3 hours ago, YHGEORGE said:

Going down the trail and constantly getting jolts form trail trash. Often from stuff that isn't really big. Just a chop-chop-chop feeling. How do you guys tell if it is compression or rebound that is causing the issue? Thanks.

What bike? If its an 03 or 04 KTM then thats normal. And try your friends bikes to see if it feels similar. 4 strokes generally feel more plush through the trail junk than two strokes.

 

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What is a jump? I'm talking about pure woods riding. And my real aim/question is to find whether I should be adjusting comp or rebound. I know both play a part.

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5 hours ago, YHGEORGE said:

Going down the trail and constantly getting jolts form trail trash. Often from stuff that isn't really big. Just a chop-chop-chop feeling. How do you guys tell if it is compression or rebound that is causing the issue? Thanks.

Impossible to say without more info

proper spring rate?

age of oil?

bike?

model?

stock valving?

Most often it is from having the forks set up for very slow speeds (KTM) and it blowing through the stroke into the base valve, which is there to prevent bottoming, so it slows down fork movement quickly.

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6 hours ago, YHGEORGE said:

Going down the trail and constantly getting jolts form trail trash. Often from stuff that isn't really big. Just a chop-chop-chop feeling. How do you guys tell if it is compression or rebound that is causing the issue? Thanks.

Turn the comp adjuster 4 clicks in and try then 4 clicks out from the original and retry. There are plenty of others ways to check rebound I think M/X tech have a set up guide basically the bike pushes with to little and tucks with to much. Same with comp turn the adjuster and ride the same section of track. IMHO small trail trash needs bleed to be absorbed well. 

 

MM 

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Some REALLY bad/erroneous advice in this thread.   

Give us more info to work on, then we might be able to help you.

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First thing I would do with same feeling is go 2 clicks in on comp (KYB) and see how it feels. If it's worse, 2 clicks out from orig setting.

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I really do appreciate the input and I apologize for my inability to communicate my question better. What I am wondering is if there is a clue to whether it is a rebound or comp issue. Was just thinking that some of you more tech savvy guys had an indicator you have learned over the years. I think I will just return to doing the hi comp-low comp then the high reb-low reb testing one at a time. Doing everything I can to avoid another teardown for a revalve. Thank you all.

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23 hours ago, YHGEORGE said:

What is a jump? I'm talking about pure woods riding. And my real aim/question is to find whether I should be adjusting comp or rebound. I know both play a part.

Compression dampening is what resists the "up" stroke of the suspension.  If you are experiencing "jolts" over small objects you probably need to back off on the compression dampening a bit.  Rebound dampening is what slows down the extension of the suspension after it has been compressed.  If you are feeling a "boingy" ride you probably need to increase the rebound dampening.  If the front suspension is "packing down" on repeated bumps you probably need to back off on the rebound dampening.  There are no magic settings, its strictly up to you and how your bike feels to you.  If you cannot seem to affect the ride of your motorcycle with the suspension adjusters then you may have to change the weight of oil that you are using in your fork/shock.

Edited by GlennRay
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6 hours ago, YHGEORGE said:

What I am wondering is if there is a clue to whether it is a rebound or comp issue.

You can feel a rebound issue just after the bump. A fork comp issue is felt right on the bump or hit.  Any kind of rear suspension issue can make riders feel that the fork is doing bad things but you'd feel the bike out of balance when that happens. Not a clunk right on a front wheel hit.

Both rebound or compression issues can/will cause the front tire to poorly track the ground. So you have to concentrate too much on front wheel placement.

Usually rebound damping has a setting which works well for a broad range of terrain/track types. Find the sweet spot (to match your springs) then it's almost set and forget.

The ideal compression damping depends greatly on the situation and usage. Either too little or too much comp damping can cause a harsh feeling in your hands.  Again you have to find the sweet spot.

The clickers are there to be used.

If your clunk feeling only just started then something is failing inside the fork. eg. Lost oil. Valve stack nut has come loose. Something is broken or worn out.

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You said something everyone missed " avoid another tear down " what was the first tear down for has it done this since? Tried setting the clickers at stock and start over tuning?

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Yes, several revalves. Once it got out of whack I have never recovered.  When our weather improves a little I am going to set every adjustment dead in the middle and go from there one at a time. Thanks guys.

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Surprised to see your still having the suspension woes on the 01 CR250r.  I think I've read about it for about 5 yrs. now & can't believe you haven't sent it to a reputable place like FC.  I suggested that to you about a yr. back in one of your posts & think you commented you were going to do it.   FC has done 4 Honda CR - CRF bikes for me through the yrs. & they've all have been excellent afterwards with some minor clicker adjustment tweaks.

FC has done a lot of R&D work on the Hondas & would trust they would give you a very good valving spec / spring rates for your skill & type of riding. 

Madness = Doing the same thing over & over & expecting to get different results.

I'm a very patient person, but if it was me I would've set that bike on fire & thrown it off a cliff by now & cut my losses...     

Edited by H4L
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Surprised to see your still having the suspension woes on the 01 CR250r.  I think I've read about it for about 5 yrs. now & can't believe you haven't sent it to a reputable place like FC.  I suggested that to you about a yr. back in one of your posts & think you commented you were going to do it.   FC has done 4 Honda CR - CRF bikes for me through the yrs. & they've all have been excellent afterwards with some minor clicker adjustment tweaks.
FC has done a lot of R&D work on the Hondas & would trust they would give you a very good valving spec / spring rates for your skill & type of riding. 
Madness = Doing the same thing over & over & expecting to get different results.
I'm a very patient person, but if it was me I would've set that bike on fire & thrown it off a cliff by now & cut my losses...     

Like the sun always rising in the east, Yhgeorge will have these issues with his suspension. If he ever says it's perfect, someone better go check on him!
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14 hours ago, H4L said:

Surprised to see your still having the suspension woes on the 01 CR250r.  I think I've read about it for about 5 yrs. now & can't believe you haven't sent it to a reputable place like FC.  I suggested that to you about a yr. back in one of your posts & think you commented you were going to do it.   FC has done 4 Honda CR - CRF bikes for me through the yrs. & they've all have been excellent afterwards with some minor clicker adjustment tweaks.

FC has done a lot of R&D work on the Hondas & would trust they would give you a very good valving spec / spring rates for your skill & type of riding. 

Madness = Doing the same thing over & over & expecting to get different results.

I'm a very patient person, but if it was me I would've set that bike on fire & thrown it off a cliff by now & cut my losses...     

Yep, you and C-P are right. Any intelligent person would have moved on long ago but this has turned into a challenge I just can't drop. I truly love this bike and on smooth trails it has zero issues and still runs with my friends new stuff. With the help of a "local" tuner who has been around many many years we have it much closer. Local here in TX for me is four + hours. Yes, I should have tried FC many moons ago, their experience with Honda cannot be denied. I think I may be close enough now that the right combo of clicker settings will have the bike feeling compliant, and safe to push it in rough conditions. In the rough stuff stuff that it should absorb and track thru it gets to hopping around and is unpredictable. I have been trail riding and racing enduros in the same area for over thirty years and now I can't trust the bike. I know what is coming and all of a sudden I am out of whack and having to regroup. Very tiring also, everything is transferred to me instead of the susp absorbing things. And somehow I have ended up with 3.5 inches of travel I can't use no matter the clicker-oil level settings. Discussing this with the "guru" tuners has been a total waste of time. Actually this all started in '09 when I sent the stuff to a famous west coast guy, downhill since with no relief until the new TX guy. Yes, dumb or even toopid may be the correct  description but at this point I guess its an addiction. And no, I will not be selling this bike even though I am committed to an '18. I have had PERFECT suspension once before and I am not quitting. In my experience susp is 99% of my success.  H4L, I will go to FC if this latest fellow is not successful. Personal promise! 

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On 7/14/2017 at 3:31 PM, YHGEORGE said:

I really do appreciate the input and I apologize for my inability to communicate my question better. What I am wondering is if there is a clue to whether it is a rebound or comp issue. Was just thinking that some of you more tech savvy guys had an indicator you have learned over the years. I think I will just return to doing the hi comp-low comp then the high reb-low reb testing one at a time. Doing everything I can to avoid another teardown for a revalve. Thank you all.

Blind guess: Rebound is too fast, needs to be stiffened/slowed (turned in). 

A concept that took me years to first understand: A bike with fully stuff compression yet fully slow rebound, will feel more "plush" than a bike with fully soft comp and the fastest rebound setting. Takes a while to grasp that concept. 

In theory, if this is the correct solution, you should be getting a lot of arm pump and get worn out quickly, possibly experience understeer/drifting wide on flat corners (aka you have the tenancy to throw a foot out too often in corners for balance/traction), get deflected/jerked around a lot in the chop/rocks, and pop-up and over obstacles, rather than plowing through them as easily. If you are experiencing these issues, especially if your compression is at a mid to soft setting, its definitely rebound. 

 

 

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