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TPS Adjustment Tool

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Just ordered MODEL 1 TPS adjustment tool from www.tpstool.com

Model 1 matches the one on our 4t betas. Not sure about the 2t models.

I will post here of my experimentation and results. 

I know from owning an FI KTM that as little at .02v makes a noticeable difference in the throttle feel just off idle, and I would like to add a bit more 'aggression' to my Beta.

As I understand it, adding more voltage pushes you into a more advance ignition timing map, (no effect on fueling unless temp issues get involved) making the throttle response more 'connected'.

The tool is essentially a 'y' harness, allowing you to measure the 5v running across the TPS while it is still conncetd and active, and adjust it's output going to the ECU, at idle.

 

...stay tuned.

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All EFI systems I've ever played with the TPS has a direct affect on pulse width thats why it works on the KTM the flame out is lean. Far as the std voltage check yours :) I guess you could also refer to the Sherco values. Why buy a tool when you can back probe the connector and just read it. Think you are chasing your tail Krannie Mc Krannie face aka "the Kran" Redwheel I'd say the Beta is not lean no flame outs or poping! But hey I've been wrong more times than not :) 

 

MM 

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2 hours ago, MartyMOOSE said:

All EFI systems I've ever played with the TPS has a direct affect on pulse width thats why it works on the KTM the flame out is lean. Far as the std voltage check yours :) I guess you could also refer to the Sherco values. Why buy a tool when you can back probe the connector and just read it. Think you are chasing your tail Krannie Mc Krannie face aka "the Kran" Redwheel I'd say the Beta is not lean no flame outs or poping! But hey I've been wrong more times than not :) 

 

MM 

It is for sure not lean at idle or off idle. Absolutely it's rich. I even get a rich bog now and then (slight gurgle-bog).

I have messed with the TPS already, seeking the highest idle with the least bog, but I want to quantify it.

As fore pope-ing, I do not thing my Beta is Catholic, even if it is from Italia....

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11 hours ago, THE KRAN said:

Just ordered MODEL 1 TPS adjustment tool from www.tpstool.com

Model 1 matches the one on our 4t betas. Not sure about the 2t models.

Model 2 would probably work with the oil-injected 2-strokes.  The connector is right anyway.  Only reason to tweak TPS on a 2-stroke though is if you're troubleshooting problems with oil injection rate.  But that never happens, LOL. <ducks and runs for cover>

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OK, here is what I learned:

The TPS setting is reset anytime you get a reflash on your ECU. New maps put the tps to a 'factoryl setting. Every map uses the same TPS setting. In other words, the ECU will alter the TPS value not matter what you measure it to be, if you reflash the ECU. You CAN alter the TPS setting after that. That is what I am doing here.

The tpstool.com harness was used.  Red and GREEN wires are the test points, not Red and Black like the instructions say. 

You have to 'tap' the estart to wake up the ECU and get settings. You can do it with the motor running, and get the same measurement, but all the vibration made balancing all the tools more difficult.

-----

Stock TPS setting  =  unknown.  I messed with the TPS by 'feel' prior to measuring.

TESTS:  all done on my neighborhood asphalt streets.

- Stall Test: can I get the front wheel, chocked against a curb,  to crawl up the curb by just slipping the clutch, no throttle.  No setting would allow for this, but some were better.

- Up Hill Idle test:  what mph can I achieve at idle, up a known hill.  6mph steady was the best.

- Quick WOT and back test: running at idle, on the same above incline, can I quickly lift the front wheel which just a quick throttle opening, held for about 1 sec then closed. Not as fast                                         as possible, but a normal fast turn.

- Second gear drift, from 6mph idle: very subjective, but can I drift the rear wheel, turning 90 degrees on to the same incline, with ease, with normal throttle and no clutch, standing.

All tests are completely non-scientific, but were repeated at least three times, and some additional random tests were made, where the measurements were done after the test ride, and they were resonablly conclusive, so I'm not completely  crazy.

 

Above .80 volts =  FI error light; very sluggish throttle response, easier to stall. No futher testing

.75v = Sometimes an FI error light, no further testing. Idle was higher

.70v = all tests less than optimal

.65v (.645 was as close as I could get) = all tests positive, but the Quick WOT test revealed a delay, and the drift test required too much throttle for real control

.625v = best results in all tests.  The Drift test was the most telling. I could control a quick/short pavment drift with this setting with the least amount of effort and throttle.

.60v = barely distinguishable from .62, but it was there. Slightly less throttle response using partial throttle, like on the drift test. 

.50v = idle went down, more occasional hanging idle, poorer throttle response

Below .40v = FI error light, no further testing 

 

Is this test accurate?  No.

Does it have purpose? For me it did, very much so.

Will it be useful once the temp has changed? Gas change? Elevation change?  Who knows, but it's nice to know there is a quantifiable difference.....even if it may the nearly the same as the stock setting was.

Someday if I change the map again, I will measure to see what the stock TPS setting is after the reflash.20170727_134747.thumb.jpg.3fbd7fe61cd5b49d72e9675a57bb3f1b.jpg20170727_134751.thumb.jpg.49dbfc315b9fe99d7790e65065b95625.jpg20170727_134759.thumb.jpg.af0ae962ff2c013c028940ffa62c81cb.jpg20170727_134933.thumb.jpg.b32159fbb1edaad5b0c4eed5dab79673.jpg20170727_135038.jpg.1cfc08ba5eb9dd609632a954501e4f6a.jpg

I used a t-handle to lever it up or tap it back down (it's hot in there....)

 

Edited by THE KRAN
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Cool your playing McKran the Kranface :) Are you saying the ECU can alter the TPS output voltage ? Just curious! 

 

MM 

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40 minutes ago, MartyMOOSE said:

Cool your playing McKran the Kranface :) Are you saying the ECU can alter the TPS output voltage ? Just curious! 

 

MM 

No, it does not alter the voltage, it changes what that voltage represents, in terms of position.

In the BST software there is a tab that says 'calibrate TPS'.

It adjusts the TPS to 'spec' electronically instead of manual adjustments.

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I normally don't use the 'hot' map on my Beta, as it is peakier and softer on the lower rpms.....at least that's the way it was with the original TPS adjustment.

 

Now, with the .62 setting, the hotter map is WAAAAAY better!  More roll on acceleration, more throttle response everywhere, and a quicker but more linear power output than before.

Today I was able to top out in 3rd gear on some steep stuff I normally cruise up in third.....going so much faster I needed to go +3 harder on all the clickers to be able to pull it off.

Way more confidence at wider open throttle....

 

Waymobetter!

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Very interesting. It's worth the $40 to have the interface tool to make things easy.

It would be very good to know what the stock setting is spec'd at.

Can you elaborate on the BST software and the "hot map"?

I also think my Beta runs a bit too rich at idle and just above. I think it would run better about 5% leaner at idle and just off idle.

 

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13 hours ago, danketchpel said:

Very interesting. It's worth the $40 to have the interface tool to make things easy.

It would be very good to know what the stock setting is spec'd at.

Can you elaborate on the BST software and the "hot map"?

I also think my Beta runs a bit too rich at idle and just above. I think it would run better about 5% leaner at idle and just off idle.

 

Yes, I agree, and think all BETA's do this, on purpose, as part of the 'rideability' feature of ultra-smooth power delivery. 

All I can say is watch this thread, when someday I will have the time to install the Dynojet PC.

 

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13 hours ago, danketchpel said:

Very interesting. It's worth the $40 to have the interface tool to make things easy.

It would be very good to know what the stock setting is spec'd at.

Can you elaborate on the BST software and the "hot map"?

I also think my Beta runs a bit too rich at idle and just above. I think it would run better about 5% leaner at idle and just off idle.

 

The Beta dealers have access to purchase the Beta Service Tool (BST) software and dongle that allows them to install maps or create/modify maps.

Hot Map?  When you order a Beta map switch you get access to a 'dry' and 'wet' surfaces map (visually shown as rainclouds or shining sun logo on the map switch).  I call the Dry surfaces map the "hot" map, because it's more aggressive.

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Missed this thread the 1st time. I'm carbureted, but this is interesting stuff for the future. Thanks for taking the time and photos to share.

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11 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

Missed this thread the 1st time. I'm carbureted, but this is interesting stuff for the future. Thanks for taking the time and photos to share.

Carb'd bikes still have variable ignitions; that's specifically why they have TPS.

My 2008 Wr450 likes a really high voltage on the TPS, as it would push it out of the idle map and into the 'partial  throttle' map, which had more advance.

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So... I got the tool as I had throttle hanging issue and a throttle cable that was too tight. I modified the cable mounting on the throttle body to allow some adjustment. The adjusters were bottomed out each end and still too tight. If you touched the cable housing it would rev. After adjustment the throttle seamed to work better but still have issues like hard to start, cold or hot. Hot way worse. Bike is a 2016 350rr with 23 hrs. I had some medical issues and have not rode it much the last two years, curse of getting a new bike I think. 

I started with .47/48 volts. As stock it flames out a bit, tight corners at speed and hard start hot. 

I adjusted to .63 and started, idle was low but a bit higher than before and I did not have to futs with the throttle to start. I figured this would;d be a good time to try the stepper adjust as every other time I had to play with the throttle to get to idle. I let it run for 45-60 minutes? engine never got past 205. Its cold here today so maybe that's it?  I let it cool down and tried taking it for a spin, mostly road. Started like cholesterols was on, right up but fat feeling. low power rolling throttle on. felt ok running it around the neighborhood. Low speed is ok, a bit soft feeling. Was hard to get to lift the front with just throttle roll. Usually it comes up almost too easy. if you crack throttle fast while in neutral it pops, backfires or stalls. So something isn't right. I'll check the adjustment again tomorrow, red/green wires correct?

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You need to do a passive reset with a stone cold motor, no throttle, till it reaches 190 degrees (stock boil over).

Shut it off, re start, and within a few minutes, the changes will have taken affect.

You need to check the FRONT of your throttle body for dirt. Some airboxes are not flat, and dirt gets under the sealing surface, even if greased.

You can use an inexpensive cell phone version endoscope, if you do not want to take things apart.

I added a neoprene gasket to the airbox sealing surface to solve my issue.

I have learned that there is much more to this FI system than changing the TPS resistance. In fact, changing the map works much better. MUCH BETTER.

Get your dealer to install the lastest RE single injector version map in your bike.

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Dealer is the problem. The dealer I purchased the bike from is 6 hrs away(each way) the closest dealer has not spent the cash to purchase any of the diagnostic tools for the betas(at least last time I spoke with him). So trying to find someone within 5hr round trip. I'll check the airbag and throttle for dirt tonight or tomorrow.  I have a camera probe in my service truck. I'll just bring it home.

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 I'm gonna go against the grain on this one.The ultimate goal at hand is not the adjustment of the TPS relying solely on a voltage input to the ECM and guessing the afr output but rather the manipulation of the AF ratio's by adjustment  of the ECM via the TPS to achieve a quantifiable output  valued in AFR. This can be done in two ways,the former which leaves you guessing what the output is,or.Reading the actual AF ratios using a wideband O2 sensor and  a corresponding gauge then adjusting the tps accordingly.I've opted for the later for repeatable, tangible and documentable results.

Edited by widebear
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