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CRF230F Tubliss/Trials Tire Questions

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Been a while since I've posted. This year I'm installing Tubliss front and rear. I'm going to stick with my Pirelli MT16's on the front, but am considering a trials tire for the rear. 

My riding conditions: Northeast riding only, stones, rocks, dirt, roots, branches, mud, water. Pretty much everything but rarely extended sand runs. We do however have coal sand, kinda the same thing as normal sand.

Could someone experienced with trials rear tires on our bikes throw a tire recommendation or two out to me? Thank you!

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Just now, Baja Rambler said:

Do you need it DOT approved?

Nope, just need a good or the best trials tire option for my conditions. price doesn't really matter either.

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IRC M5B is the mud tire.  I don't have experience with trials tires in mud but heard they're slippery braking on muddy downhills.

I installed an Mt43 DOT tire on the 230 but it's a harder compound than real trials tires.  Some have very soft grippy rubber.

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2 minutes ago, Baja Rambler said:

IRC M5B is the mud tire.  I don't have experience with trials tires in mud but heard they're slippery braking on muddy downhills.

I installed an Mt43 DOT tire on the 230 but it's a harder compound than real trials tires.  Some have very soft grippy rubber.

I'm open to one of these new "hybrid" tires too, anyone here running something like this:

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/742/52136/Motoz-Mountain-Hybrid-Rear-Tire

 

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I was very happy with a Kenda K270 5.10-18 on and off road xr250.  Ran 6psi off and 20psi pavement. Great side knobs for laying it over and traversing in dirt.  I replaced it with k270 120/80-18 which is a little lighter.  I run an IRC TR8 up front on both bikes because they feel so much safer on hiway than a small-knob knobby.  I run UHD tubes in everything.

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We love the Mt43 long lasting very good on 230s. Of course a real Trials tire works better, but way too many flat tires..Still using the mt43 over any knobby is cheating. We use Ultra tubes 4mil thick  6 to 4psi. We dont use tubeless since it can fail just like tube flat.So if we changed to tubeless the end result. We still would need to carry extra spare tubes on bike.Even more pain to remove tubeless set up on trail.Then install tube.

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Also, most Baja 1000 racers run a BIB mouse on front tire and UHD tube on rear.  The mouse overheats at speed on asphalt and is pretty much equivalent to around 12 psi.  I also think the UHD can overheat/wear out on pavement at very low pressure why I run 20psi on the slab.  I don't know what pressure the B1K racers run with UHD but I would guess around 10-12psi since they don't race on the most difficult terrain.  It's all two-track and there's a stock VW bug class.  Rules limit racers to 60mph on hiway sections and they receive penalties for exceeding based on GPS. 

See "Dust to Glory" B1K documentery

 

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2 hours ago, Baja Rambler said:

Do you need it DOT approved?

 

2 hours ago, Baja Rambler said:

Do you need it DOT approved?

Hi I need some help! I bought a 2 stroke dirtbike and the guy before ran clots oil in it and I can't find it anywhere online!! Can someone please help me 

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Your riding area seems similar to mine. One problem in my area is red clay, hard and dusty when dry, like ice when wet. Add in water puddles and mud and it becomes a challenge to find good tires. 

I've run Tubliss front/rear since 09 on at least one bike and had Tubliss on the rear of several others. Some lose air more than others, some will hold air for months.  I ran a Michelin S12 on the front and it didn't do well as a tubeless tire, but painting the inside with Slime helped. I also had several punctures on that tire and the casing became so leaky that I replaced the tire. From my experiences over the years of trail riding a Trials bike on my terrain  I've migrated all of my bikes to Competition Trials tires front and rear. The fronts are 2.75x21 and provide great steering for avoiding trail obstacles/trash, the rears are radial ply and compared to a knobby provide enough traction to ride wet clay, even climb hills and stream banks.  The Trials tires also provide enough traction that you will be able to ride areas without trenching the trail, and can restart almost any where without wheel spin. The locals compliment Trials tires for Enduro competition by calling them "cheaters". 

Trials tires have many more biting edges than a knobby so much better traction except on soft loamy soils when tall stiff knobs will dig in, not a enough of an issue in my riding area to offset the Trials tire traction advantages. 
The lack of void space because of the extra knobs, and shorter knobs, more easily pack with soft soils and causes a loss of traction. You can have some wild downhill events until you adjust your riding technique to avoid tire sliding, or spinning on climbs; more front brake, and smooth an easy with the rear brake and throttle works best. Increasing idle speed will help reduce inadvertent rear wheel lock ups. Less side knobs so not as good as a knoby when leaned over, but I place more value on traction when the bike is closer to vertical. I also don't have any problem steering up the sides and out of ruts with Comp Trials tires. Radial ply tires behave on dirt very much like on pavement; a higher threshold of traction before losing traction but a quicker transition to sliding. 

I run 6-7psi in the rear for normal conditions and 4psi for wet clay because the low pressure provide extra casing flex that allows the tire to self clean. My Trials bike is lighter so I need less air to get enough casing flex (i3.5psi works).

There is a variety of trials type tires to chose from, some with special performance, or DOT certification, or a look alike tread pattern.  The MT43 has a very good rep for use on dual sport bikes,  the Competition Trials tires will be the best for traction. Watch a world class Trials competition event and you will see what good traction they provide, lots of videos on utube.  My Trials bike has a tubeless rim on the rear and the OEM tire is a radial ply Michelin X (4.00R18), work great everywhere.   For the rear on my other bikes I use the Dunlop D803 (4.00R18) or D803GP (120/100R18) radial ply tires  with the Tubliss system.   Knock on wood but never a rear flat, but I don't ride BTR's terrain or have his fleet maintenance issues. The Dunlops are available at competitive prices from Rocky Mountain with quick shipping.

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5 minutes ago, Ethan Reinholt said:

 

Hi I need some help! I bought a 2 stroke dirtbike and the guy before ran clots oil in it and I can't find it anywhere online!! Can someone please help me 

Is that your wedding picture?

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Most trials tire sidewalls are too soft to run the tubliss system at low pressure, I tried one once and prefer knobbies and hybrids with the tubliss system. On the wife's 230 I have had good results with the Sedona 907 and currently the shinko 505 cheater, both at 4-5 psi. I have not had any punctures on the trail that couldn't be plugged. No flats since going to quadboss sealant, even a 1 1/2 inch slice in a sidewall sealed up. Jeff at tubliss is a great guy and will tell you what he knows about any tire your considering, call him. Jeff Slavens has videos giving opinions of tires that are worth watching, he runs tubliss.

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28 minutes ago, Ethan Reinholt said:

 

Hi I need some help! I bought a 2 stroke dirtbike and the guy before ran clots oil in it and I can't find it anywhere online!! Can someone please help me 

2 strokes seems to need specific oil depending on make/model, and you didn't state make model. Also most of the readers of this forum don't have a lot of current experience with 2 stroke bikes.
Best and fastest answer will be if you post your question in the bike specific forum for the make/model of your bike.

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2 minutes ago, knucklespisano said:

Most trials tire sidewalls are too soft to run the tubliss system at low pressure, I tried one once and prefer knobbies and hybrids with the tubliss system. On the wife's 230 I have had good results with the Sedona 907 and currently the shinko 505 cheater, both at 4-5 psi. I have not had any punctures on the trail that couldn't be plugged. No flats since going to quadboss sealant, even a 1 1/2 inch slice in a sidewall sealed up. Jeff at tubliss is a great guy and will tell you what he knows about any tire your considering, call him. Jeff Slavens has videos giving opinions of tires that are worth watching, he runs tubliss.

I've run Competition Trials tires for years at low pressure and never had a problem, and use the Tubliss system for tube type rims. On my Trials bike I run 3.5psi for wet clay, on my others usually 4psi for wet clay because the bikes are heavier and that is as low as I need to go for the tire to self clean wet clay.  And one of those bikes is about the same weight as a 230 at 250lbs.
The reason could be that I run Competition Trials tires from Michelin and Dunlop and those low pressures are not uncommon for Trials competition. 

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Here are a bunch of tire notes including living with Tubliss

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BOpcLH4L0pBoV9OCdOA-n_bobGrKNFRb3fyhhqxQOBU/pub

There is a link to a table of real tire hardness data. Would love to get data on more tires. If you have a bunch of tires, I will loan you the Shore A meter to measure their hardness.

Edited by RedMesa

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23 hours ago, Chuck. said:

the Competition Trials tires will be the best for traction. Watch a world class Trials competition event and you will see what good traction they provide, lots of videos on utube.  My Trials bike has a tubeless rim on the rear and the OEM tire is a radial ply Michelin X (4.00R18), work great everywhere.  

Ready to pay the price (gulp) for my trials / trails bike and noticed there has been a change in the product to Trial X Light:

"Michelin has reduced the tire’s overall weight by more than a pound but at the same time they’ve stiffened up the sidewalls and made the tread area more flexible."

and saw reviews like this:

"They were always expensive, but worth it. Not now. Michelin ruined a great tire. The old one gripped, and was bulletproof."

"Not very happy traction is great but tire is not tough at all second ride on the tire it had 2 slashes in the side wall and a hole this new tire compound sucks and for the price this is not acceptable"

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/742/61206/Michelin-Trial-X-Light-Tire

Do you have any experience with the new "Light" model? At twice the price of most trials tires I am wondering.

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No experience with the X-Lite, just the X and the D803.  The X is a long lasting tire, my friend's 05 4RT is still on its original X and for years it was his primary trail bike. I think the X on my 04 is original and the lugs are still soft and pliable.

Because of Mich prices I have used Dunlop D803s on my other bikes, they have a stiffer sidewall which is good for the heavier bikes and considering the other bikes are heavier they don't seem to have any less traction than the Xs on the Trials bikes. The new D803 is metric sized and made in Japan, it is a D803GP in a 120/100R18 size and looks identical to the D803, also seems to work the same. My observations of D803 wear is the lugs develop hairline cracks at their bases but that seems cosmetic. They wear good but run the AP up for pavement and high speed use. I recently replaced a D803 on my XR (with a D803GP) after what I think has been at least 5, maybe 7, years of use because it was leaking air out of side wall cracks, the result of too many miles at too low a pressure. It also was missing couple of lugs but otherwise the tread looks like it had a few more years of life. 

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/742/55309/Dunlop-D803GP-Trials-Tire

 

Edited by Chuck.

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On 7/23/2017 at 9:45 AM, knucklespisano said:

Most trials tire sidewalls are too soft to run the tubliss system at low pressure, I tried one once and prefer knobbies and hybrids with the tubliss system. On the wife's 230 I have had good results with the Sedona 907 and currently the shinko 505 cheater, both at 4-5 psi. I have not had any punctures on the trail that couldn't be plugged. No flats since going to quadboss sealant, even a 1 1/2 inch slice in a sidewall sealed up. Jeff at tubliss is a great guy and will tell you what he knows about any tire your considering, call him. Jeff Slavens has videos giving opinions of tires that are worth watching, he runs tubliss.

Wondering if quadboss sealant works with tube.No info on there site about that, it would be nice to know. We use slime now but not working on sidewall holes. As trails tire 6psi lots of side wall rub.

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