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Hard to shift XR200

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I have an 1987 XR200r I took out this weekend and rode at a sand track near Marysville CA. The bike ran and handled well enough to be fun. Not too  good in the 3 ft. deep moving sand ruts, but still fun. Biggest trouble was trying to upshift at high RPM. Let off the throttle barely and toe the lever. that sucker wont move. Give it 2 or 3 more good pulls, still nothin' .Lower RPM and off throttle not bad. Downshifting OK. Used the clutch and it worked well on high RPM upshift. My point is, on about all the Jap bikes I have ridden, including my XR100's , there is no need to use the clutch while shifting. Just blip the grip and a smooth toe tug and she's happily rippin' the next gear. Is this 6 speed trans one that has a rep for having to be nursed into gear ? Or maybe an adjustment or shim or part replaced to improve performance? Or just always have to fool with the clutch lever? Thanks for any knowledge shared.

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Xr200 trannies are classic Honda and will shift wo the clutch. From my experience using the clutch always helps with shifting, and it is easy to use.
I do have the throttle roll off and roll on down for shifting but the using the clutch just makes a smoother shift, and enhances your clutch skills for more difficult terrain.

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No one else has ever had this trouble? Or been able to diagnose and make a repair or replace an offending part that would cause an absolute need to use the clutch for race type shifting? 

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Could be your shift star & gear shift plate is worn out due to such shifting.

Me personally, when I almost always use the clutch when I upshift and will rarely use it when I down shift.

The only time I upshift w/o the clutch as low to mid rpm's, never high rpm's.

I also have leverage clutch levers, so using the clutch is a 2 finger afair, so not a big deal. 

Michael 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, KTM520EXC said:

Could be your shift star & gear shift plate is worn out due to such shifting.

Me personally, when I almost always use the clutch when I upshift and will rarely use it when I down shift.

The only time I upshift w/o the clutch as low to mid rpm's, never high rpm's.

I also have leverage clutch levers, so using the clutch is a 2 finger afair, so not a big deal. 

Michael 

 

 

 

 

So, Michael, you're saying you downshift without using the clutch?? But you use the clutch while up shifting? Sounds kinda ass backwards lol. Aside from the little crf50, I don't think I've ever been in/on anything that would allow a downshift without the clutch. That, or I've just never tried because it could cause it to hand grenade. When I'd run my CBR600RR or my Busa at the track, I only used my clutch for staging and launch, then clutchless shifts at high rpms and they'd slip right into gear, and my xr200r shifts smooth without clutch too (just doesn't like to downshift even with the clutch) but I got the parts to fix that

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Just what KTM520 said...check the shift star and gear shift plate. Shift star is an easy fix and if yours is worn out it will make shifting difficult.

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I have never had problem shifting any japanese bike without clutch,up or down.Better with clutch on upshift if going for holeshot,full throttle,powershifting,but no issue riding trails. Only tranny i ever ruined was a 73 elsinore,which was crap anyway,lol

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41 minutes ago, firstplacephoto said:

I have never had problem shifting any japanese bike without clutch,up or down.Better with clutch on upshift if going for holeshot,full throttle,powershifting,but no issue riding trails. Only tranny i ever ruined was a 73 elsinore,which was crap anyway,lol

 

CR250...................Elsinore?

Old School Al

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50 minutes ago, firstplacephoto said:

I have never had problem shifting any japanese bike without clutch,up or down.Better with clutch on upshift if going for holeshot,full throttle,powershifting,but no issue riding trails. Only tranny i ever ruined was a 73 elsinore,which was crap anyway,lol

You are giving away your age by mentioning a 73 Elsisnort.

As previously stated in this thread the "star wheel" is a common problem on the transmissions of XR200R, and related models. They will show no visible signs of wear but suddenly one gear will become difficult to engage.  And contrary to some service manuals they can be replaced without removing the clutch basket.

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22 minutes ago, Old School Al said:

 

CR250...................Elsinore?

Old School Al

I should have said transmission on cr250 was junk,didnt hold up real well. 

Edited by firstplacephoto

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59 minutes ago, firstplacephoto said:

I should have said transmission on cr250 was junk,didnt hold up real well. 

 

I don't know that I would really call them junk ............... maybe unforgiving? :excuseme:   They didn't handle any shifting abuse well.  Any abusive shifting and you ended up with rounded gear drive dogs and bent shift forks.  In the group I rode with the guys that were easy on the trans had no problems at all .........guys that were a bit rough on them had problems.  I had the early 74 (first year) CR125 and it had a excellent tranny.  I did damage it once, but it was totally my fault. 

Old School Al

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3 hours ago, Chuck. said:

You are giving away your age by mentioning a 73 Elsisnort.

As previously stated in this thread the "star wheel" is a common problem on the transmissions of XR200R, and related models. They will show no visible signs of wear but suddenly one gear will become difficult to engage.  And contrary to some service manuals they can be replaced without removing the clutch basket.

Chuck, I'm happy you said that! I have the star gear and shift plate sitting in my truck waiting for me to put them in. I've been putting it off bc I don't have the socket to pull the clutch basket at this point in time. 

Is there a trick to getting these parts swapped out without pulling the clutch out? Or is it pretty straight forward? 

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I also had shifting issues with an xr200 after it tipped over and fell on the shifter. put new shift star and associated parts and shifts like new now.

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Thanks guys, I'm going to check out the shifter star and plate as suggested. I have not crashed this bike,... yet. Previous owner may have banged the shifter before I bought the bike. I appreciate the help, comments, and direction to the possible problem. Now go twist a grip and get some grins, Vance.

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On 8/4/2017 at 0:36 AM, Daniel627 said:

Chuck, I'm happy you said that! I have the star gear and shift plate sitting in my truck waiting for me to put them in. I've been putting it off bc I don't have the socket to pull the clutch basket at this point in time. 

Is there a trick to getting these parts swapped out without pulling the clutch out? Or is it pretty straight forward? 

Chuck?? Any insight? 

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I've always pulled the clutch but there is a thread, or post, on this forum about doing it wo pulling the clutch.  I see several issues; getting a wrench on the star wheel bolt and reinstalling the bolt so I would suggest having a magnet handy to retrieve a loose bolt. And I'd blue loctite the bolt.
The shift plate is attached to the shift lever shaft via a lock pin so it is easy to remove.  And the star whhel is located via a pin, and retained by a bolt.

Lay the bike on its left side and pull the right cover, and compare what you see with a part fiche diagram.   

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Okie dokie! Thanks Chuck! I just didn't wanna tear into it without the socket, thinking I could do it without, then find out I'm not gonna be able to get it done, then have a torn down bike sitting in the way. 

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58 minutes ago, Daniel627 said:

Okie dokie! Thanks Chuck! I just didn't wanna tear into it without the socket, thinking I could do it without, then find out I'm not gonna be able to get it done, then have a torn down bike sitting in the way. 

If you're going to replace the star and plate get your socket and pull the clutch.............. 

:thinking:I'm somewhat doubtful you have a star and plate problem though, and that changing them will fix anything.  I tend to believe you have the problem in sand of not being able to unload the gears enough to shift.  Riding in sand (especially with low hp) is kind of like dragging a boat anchor, and the bike slows down when you blip the throttle faster than the engine does (due to flyweight) and the load isn't taken off the gears.  Tap the clutch to release the load and it shifts fine!  Just my thoughts on what you describe for whatever it's worth................:excuseme:

Old School Al

 

Edited by Old School Al
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46 minutes ago, Old School Al said:

If you're going to replace the star and plate get your socket and pull the clutch.............. 

:thinking:I'm somewhat doubtful you have a star and plate problem though, and that changing them will fix anything.  I tend to believe you have the problem in sand of not being able to unload the gears enough to shift.  Riding in sand (especially with low hp) is kind of like dragging a boat anchor, and the bike slows down when you blip the throttle faster than the engine does (due to flyweight) and the load isn't taken off the gears.  Tap the clutch to release the load and it shifts fine!  Just my thoughts on what you describe for whatever it's worth................:excuseme:

Old School Al

 

I appreciate the advice Al, but I'm not the one that's having the problems shifting in sand (that would be hornet10).

MY shifting issues are that it doesn't like to downshift. I followed the advice of Chuck from another thread I posted in speaking of my downshifting problems, and some of your previous posts in other shifting issue threads, stating the common problem is the star and plate. So I'm hoping it solves my problem. If not, well, I'll have those new parts in there. 

Daniel

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15 minutes ago, Daniel627 said:

I appreciate the advice Al, but I'm not the one that's having the problems shifting in sand (that would be hornet10).

MY shifting issues are that it doesn't like to downshift. I followed the advice of Chuck from another thread I posted in speaking of my downshifting problems, and some of your previous posts in other shifting issue threads, stating the common problem is the star and plate. So I'm hoping it solves my problem. If not, well, I'll have those new parts in there. 

Daniel

Ok, I wasn't paying close enough attention (different poster)..................thanks for pointing it out! ;)  Yep.............if your clutch is adjusted properly, spindle isn't bent, lever isn't hitting something etc, then star and plate would be in order for your shifting problem I would feel. 

Old School Al

 

Edited by Old School Al

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