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Tip over kill switch on RR-S models

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Hi all,

I started a topic regarding my '17 390 RR-S not starting well after going down.  I'm trying to troubleshoot that issue and am going through the process of elimination to that end. So, starting with the tip-over kill switch I'm already having problems.  I can't find a wiring diagram for this model!  I did remove the switch and the bike runs without it, so I assume?? that leaving it out will not be an operational problem.  Anyone have any info on that, please chime up...

The switch has three leads.  Call them 1,2,3 as located in the connector with the UP label being up.  I'm getting 13 ohms across leads 1 and 3 in the UP position, and the same in every other position.  Between leads 1 and 2, and leads 2 and 3, there is full resistance (open) also regardless of position.   So, even though I can hear a device clanking around in the housing, no changes are occurring...they stay open.  That does not seem correct for a positional switch - but does it require power to operate correctly?

My bike's particular problem seems more than just switch related, as it acts very much like a fuel issue upon restart attempts, however, there may be the possibility that a malfunctioning tip-over switch somehow affects the ECU - perhaps by affecting proper voltage to the system?

Anyhoo, if someone knows where a wiring diagram exists for the RR-S series of bikes that would be appreciated.  If anyone knows how the tip-over switch is supposed to operate that would be good too - what exactly does it shut off, what does it leave on?

Thanks

 

Edited by kawagumby

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Can't give specifics on wiring,voltage or ohms. However can tell you it runs fine without it. We take it off the race bikes. 

Its suppose to shutoff the bike after being on its side for something around 7 seconds (not sure of the exact number). We've had them where they don't actually work anyways and the bike keeps running. 

Edited by ccullins
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1 hour ago, ccullins said:

 

Its suppose to shutoff the bike after being on its side for something around 7 seconds (not sure of the exact number).

That would explain the resistance between the two leads, it is likely a thermal switch that activates when the metal expands over a few seconds from heating...and closes the circuit.  A wiring diagram would do wonders for troubleshooting this bike.

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55 minutes ago, kawagumby said:

That would explain the resistance between the two leads, it is likely a thermal switch that activates when the metal expands over a few seconds from heating...and closes the circuit.  A wiring diagram would do wonders for troubleshooting this bike.

http://www.betausa.com/content/support

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I looked there...the service manual for the '17 RS models didn't have a wiring diagram (that I could find).  I noticed that a few other models had wiring diagrams in *.jpg files, but not the RR-S.

It may be located under another topic, the xtrainer, for example has the wiring diagrams hidden away in the "RR Xtrainer oil injection and wiring troubleshooting guide" (which I found by accident somewhere else)...but I can't find something like that for the RR-S models.

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Have you removed the charcoal canister from under the seat?  I did and it solved this very problem as well as stalling on descents.  YMMV

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20 minutes ago, Nailbender said:

Have you removed the charcoal canister from under the seat?  I did and it solved this very problem as well as stalling on descents.  YMMV

I forgot your bike is a California model, so I'm guessing this explains why you may be experiencing this issue and I've had no problems even though same bike. 

Gotta move to Oregon I guess if you want your bike to run properly :thumbsup:

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Sounds like some of the epa regulations you guys have are having issues with the running of the bikes. I have a 350rr and have none of the issues you have had, keep chasing it. Can you have your dealer reflash the ecu with an rr map

 

MM 

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check my: this is our 125 and 500 thread.

Tim from beta sent me a scematic and its on one of those pages. but be prepared to translate as it's in Italian.

 

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12 hours ago, firffighter said:

I forgot your bike is a California model, so I'm guessing this explains why you may be experiencing this issue and I've had no problems even though same bike. 

Gotta move to Oregon I guess if you want your bike to run properly :thumbsup:

Correct/incorrect, anyone who wants their new DS bike run decent in any state as this sh*t comes on every new DS bike coming into the states now needs to remove this stuff immediately. No matter what state they all have it for DS bikes. Just many smart/caring dealers remove that stuff prior to letting their customers deal with the BS that comes with running that stuff. My smog stuff started collecting dust within 30 minutes after coming home for the first time, I never even went around the block with that crap from new..... Just saying

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4 minutes ago, Mark-us-B said:

Correct/incorrect, anyone who wants their new DS bike run decent in any state as this sh*t comes on every new DS bike coming into the states now needs to remove this stuff immediately. No matter what state they all have it for DS bikes. Just many smart/caring dealers remove that stuff prior to letting their customers deal with the BS that comes with running that stuff. My smog stuff started collecting dust within 30 minutes after coming home for the first time, I never even went around the block with that crap from new..... Just saying

Mine has no charcoal canister or smog control, or breather tubes either. No emissions items.  None of these were removed by the dealer or myself. 

Does a California RRS come with these?  Thought I have read that Beta was able to import all of the RRS models sans the emissions items except California bikes. 

 

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34 minutes ago, firffighter said:

Mine has no charcoal canister or smog control, or breather tubes either. No emissions items.  None of these were removed by the dealer or myself. 

Does a California RRS come with these?  Thought I have read that Beta was able to import all of the RRS models sans the emissions items except California bikes. 

 

There are no specific CA bikes. Everybody gets the same thing. 

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Just now, ccullins said:

There are no specific CA bikes. Everybody gets the same thing. 

Hmm.  So the California RRS does NOT come with smog or emissions? 

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As some of you know, california has a red-sticker, green sticker riding season for off-road bikes.  The green sticker bikes (year round riding) must have the vapor canister, as do the dual sports.  It is the only state that has that requirement to the best of my knowledge - but EPA regs do change and maybe they may be required in all 50 now.  Not all bikes have problems due to the smog stuff; I once owned a green sticker, canister-equipped CRF250X that would run upside down, sideways and so on...I never pulled anything off of that bike.

As far as I know, the only bikes that require a tip-over kill switch are street-legal versions.

If Beta has the canister on all bikes, it is likely their choice...even yamaha, with the WR250R dual sport, only puts the canister on the California models - but Fed regulations do change and there is also some grand-fathering in of model approvals that means not all new bikes have the exact same requirements - (that depends upon when the models were approved).  

In any case, I don't want or need a tip-over switch, or the canister - so they will be gone before the next ride.   You guys provide good info...kudos.

Edited by kawagumby
More sliced baloney

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Canisters usually introduce a very small air bleed into the intake.  May not hut much but certainly doesn't help.  Scrap it and anything else not absolutely needed.  FWIW, the 350 I was talking about is an RR, not an RRS.  It ran OK in cooler weather.  Try to keep the fuel cooler before your next ride and see what happens. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, surfer-dude said:

check my: this is our 125 and 500 thread.

Tim from beta sent me a scematic and its on one of those pages. but be prepared to translate as it's in Italian.

 

Got it!  Thanks...now for the translations.....LOL...

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3 hours ago, firffighter said:

Mine has no charcoal canister or smog control, or breather tubes either. No emissions items.  None of these were removed by the dealer or myself. 

Does a California RRS come with these?  Thought I have read that Beta was able to import all of the RRS models sans the emissions items except California bikes. 

 

They advertise as 50-state street legal. My understanding is that means they all meet CA standards and must have all the smog equipment. If not, they would be 49-State street legal, and we (in CA) could not buy an out of state RS and plate it. Someone must have removed your stuff. What I don't know is if the smog stuff is added at BetaUSA or at the factory. I would ask your dealer to give you the smog stuff, just in case you want to sell to someone in CA.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr29

For a motorcycle, check the frame or refer to your owner' s manual for the location. The label should read that the vehicle conforms to California regulations, or that it is legal for sale in California.

Edited by basalt

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17 minutes ago, basalt said:

They advertise as 50-state street legal. My understanding is that means they all meet CA standards and must have all the smog equipment. If not, they would be 49-State street legal, and we (in CA) could not buy an out of state RS and plate it. Someone must have removed your stuff. What I don't know is if the smog stuff is added at BetaUSA or at the factory. I would ask your dealer to give you the smog stuff, just in case you want to sell to someone in CA.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr29

 

 

 Come from the factory that way. Beta USA doesn't un-crate a bike unless its BYOB. 

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