Tm144en or ktm 150 xcw?

[Black-swan]

Hi,

I currently ride a beta 300rr but would like to get a smaller bore bike with less power. In trials I have had a beta 200, montesa 250, have had a go on 300 trials bikes but the most fun I have had is on my a current ride, a 125 gas gas trials bike. I really enjoy revving the motor, the light feel of the bike and using the clutch for extra power. 

I mainly ride on a couple of local enduro loops, mainly single track, some technical riding. I want to do the occasional enduro, trail riding, a bit of MX and grasstrack. I am pretty average when it comes to speed.

I just want to get a machine I will be able to rev and have fun, the 300rr has got power everywhere, I feel as though I need to ride a gear high and can't really open her up. I've tried all sorts of mods and fiddled with the power valve but its just not working for me.

I've ridden a KTM 150 xcw and it was a lot of fun to ride. I felt as though I could open it up more in turns, it was lighter, gear selection more important than the beta! It left me with the feeling I had bought the wrong bike.

There aren't many companies offering small bore 2ts. If beta made a 200 I would not have got the 300 in the first place. 

What is the 144 like? Does it have any bottom end at all? Is it hard hitting at the top? Is it tunable? How tall is the bike? I'm 5 foot 7 and am on tip toes on the RR. Reliable? What are parts like to get? Anyone ridden the KTM and tm? Any good for trail riding or is it a pure competition machine?

I'm 5 foot 7, 170lbs in gear and ride sportsman at local events. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Black-swan

[weantright]

I have ridden older 150's and needed to stay on the pipe for the most part. Great bikes but fall short on the power for me. Have you thought about a 250 4t?? Smoother less on off switch power and easy to ride? Will need to shorten suspension otherwise will make a great woods bikes.

KTM 250xcf

TM300EC

Sherco 250/300SEF-R

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by weantright

[Black-swan]

2 hours ago, weantright said:

I have ridden older 150's and needed to stay on the pipe for the most part. Great bikes but fall short on the power for me. Have you thought about a 250 4t?? Smoother less on off switch power and easy to ride? Will need to shorten suspension otherwise will make a great woods bikes.

KTM 250xcf

TM300EC

Sherco 250/300SEF-R

 

The weight, added complexity and usually taller seat height have put me off four strokes a bit. Plus I prefer how a 2 stroke rides. They are also cheaper to buy initially. The sherco 300 4t looks interesting, but a lot of electrics on em is a bit off putting. Thanks for the advice though

I'm also considering the xt, the 250 is out now which is more appealing to me than a 300.

[weantright]

XT has a pretty basic suspension so if you plan on any 2 gear+ or MX then budget suspension upgrades. Right now I am dealing with crappy casting on the XT's forks.

[Black-swan]

3 minutes ago, weantright said:

XT has a pretty basic suspension so if you plan on any 2 gear+ or MX then budget suspension upgrades. Right now I am dealing with crappy casting on the XT's forks.

Are the ktms forks that much better? I've heard a lot of different opinions on the xts suspension, some people have no problem with them, others hate them from the get go. 

[weantright]

Our XT is set up for a beginner female rider and it works. My 145lbs son crushes the forks when he rides. Overall bike is dangerous at speeds in the woods. Most that like it are tight knarly type trail riders where speed is not there. Other have 15-20wt oil and heavier sprung. Personally its a pogo stick, more preload and the rebound can't slow it. Thicker weight oil and you loose most of the slow speed compliance which is what the bike was designed for. Now between Beta and Boano you have a choice of one cartridge or two cartridge replacements both should be a good upgrade. However the two cartridge system is very close to the KYB swap which is a much better fork. With all that the fork is a cheap component to start with. I have already stripped the threads off the lug and the axle was taken off twice. The design isn't very good for an endure bike and about 20 years old.

[Black-swan]

30 minutes ago, weantright said:

Our XT is set up for a beginner female rider and it works. My 145lbs son crushes the forks when he rides. Overall bike is dangerous at speeds in the woods. Most that like it are tight knarly type trail riders where speed is not there. Other have 15-20wt oil and heavier sprung. Personally its a pogo stick, more preload and the rebound can't slow it. Thicker weight oil and you loose most of the slow speed compliance which is what the bike was designed for. Now between Beta and Boano you have a choice of one cartridge or two cartridge replacements both should be a good upgrade. However the two cartridge system is very close to the KYB swap which is a much better fork. With all that the fork is a cheap component to start with. I have already stripped the threads off the lug and the axle was taken off twice. The design isn't very good for an endure bike and about 20 years old.

Thanks, that's good to keep in mind re forks. I want to ride faster, that's my main motivation. The xt isn't really designed for that 

[CelticDude]

I ride a 2016 TM125 Enduro.  It pulls on the bottom about like a KDX200 and rips on the top end.   I ride mostly woods but also compete in Hare Scrambles although at age 65 it's mostly riding around and trying not to fall down.  I especially like it in technical sections because it is so light.  It also comes stock with the KYB SSS forks.  This photo was taken when it was brand new.  Bought it from Dan at Motoxotica as a 2016 leftover for $1500 off.  

[Black-swan]

15 hours ago, CelticDude said:

I ride a 2016 TM125 Enduro.  It pulls on the bottom about like a KDX200 and rips on the top end.   I ride mostly woods but also compete in Hare Scrambles although at age 65 it's mostly riding around and trying not to fall down.  I especially like it in technical sections because it is so light.  It also comes stock with the KYB SSS forks.  This photo was taken when it was brand new.  Bought it from Dan at Motoxotica as a 2016 leftover for $1500 off.  

Do you use the bike for trailing riding? So its not just all top end? I am seriously thinking about a tm125 as there is a good deal locally. 

[CelticDude]

It actually has a lot of grunt on the bottom end.  I use it for trail riding weekly.  I've had a lot of 125s over the years and usually you have to slip the clutch a lot.  Not this one.  I rarely slip the clutch at all.  It is a true case reed induction motor with an electric power valve and two position ignition mapping.  I use position 1 on the track and 2 for the trail.

[Black-swan]

1 minute ago, CelticDude said:

It actually has a lot of grunt on the bottom end.  I use it for trail riding weekly.  I've had a lot of 125s over the years and usually you have to slip the clutch a lot.  Not this one.  I rarely slip the clutch at all.  It is a true case reed induction motor with an electric power valve and two position ignition mapping.  I use position 1 on the track and 2 for the trail.

Thanks for the info, how long have you had the bike? How tall are you? Is the seat height ok? How long does a top end last? I really want a machine with better suspension than the beta, the tm is looking attractive. I had a modded kdx220 before the beta, the engine was nice, but the kick start design was awful, crap brakes and suspension wasn't brilliant...

[CelticDude]

I bought the bike early last December.  The TM has great suspension out of the box.  I am 5'-10" and the seat height is fine.  I actually am replacing my first piston at 80 hours.  The TM distributor said I should be doing it at 20 hours but I think that is excessive.  The manual suggests checking clearances at 30 hours.  Even at 80 hours the piston clearance was .003" and the ring end gap was .012".  I was still getting 150 psi on a compression test.  I had a KDX200 a few years ago and had the same experience.

[Black-swan]

16 hours ago, CelticDude said:

I bought the bike early last December.  The TM has great suspension out of the box.  I am 5'-10" and the seat height is fine.  I actually am replacing my first piston at 80 hours.  The TM distributor said I should be doing it at 20 hours but I think that is excessive.  The manual suggests checking clearances at 30 hours.  Even at 80 hours the piston clearance was .003" and the ring end gap was .012".  I was still getting 150 psi on a compression test.  I had a KDX200 a few years ago and had the same experience.

Thanks for all the info. Ive decided to keep my beta and respring it for my weight. If I fancy a change in the future the tm125 will be high on the list. Thanks

[weantright]

Have you tried a throttle tamer to slow the power delivery? Also XTrainer's PV spacer?

[Black-swan]

8 hours ago, weantright said:

Have you tried a throttle tamer to slow the power delivery? Also XTrainer's PV spacer?

Yes I've got the 400 cam. The bike is not the problem, I just tend to change my mind a lot. I've been on a ride tonight, I have actually wound the power valve out to flush. It seems better, like the bike spins less off the bottom but it is easier to loft the front/ spin the wheel at higher rpm. I'll try it like this for a while, I know it sounds contradictory but it seems to work 

[Knox Enduro]

I know I am a little late on this, but:  I ride a 2017 TM144EN, has smooth tractable power with enough bottom end to climb any hill as long as you are in the right gear.  I traded off with a kid on a KTM 150 and here is what I noticed.  The KTM reved quick but signed off just as quickly and you had to change gears.  TM pulled longer, makes sense because it has a longer stroke instead of a bored 125.   Stock TM suspension seemed more compliant than even the revolved to be softer KTM suspension.  The KTM felt smaller which might be good for some, but not me.

[Black-swan]

Bought the x trainer, find it unstable even with the k9 kit upgrade and hard work anything above 2nd gear. Got an old 125tm mx 2001 which is fun, but I think a 4t is more my cup of tea. Planning on getting a tm 300 fi enduro model new, think it will suit my riding better. As I've improved, weight and seat height seem to be less of an issue. Plus from what I've researched the tm is lighter than a 300rr, really looking forward to picking the bike up.