Have you guys seen the 2017 AJP models??

[xplodee]

Wow, now that have an "extreme" version that comes complete with all the bolt-ons one could ever ask for, and 230lb WET weight! I may just buy one of these in a year or two for the sake of it:

http://motoajp.com/enduros/models-features/pr4-extreme/

[S.O.A.N.Z]

Yeah why not - probably do and go anywhere that a bike nearly twice the price does

 

 

[xplodee]

Sadly the PR5 with the water cooled motor (30hp) isn't as attractive to me because it weighs 260lbs before fuel! I don't understand how it got so heavy compared to the PR4. The wheelbase on the PR5 grows by about 2" versus the PR4, plus the water cooled engine and associated stuff, but still, 30lbs?

[mixxer]

My one and only reservation is that I fear the bike could be utter and complete garbage....!!

 

Other than that though...

 

[bajatrailrider]

Suspension by Sachs that could not be same company that made the Sachs motorcycle. If it is wonder if anybody is old enough like me. That had a Sachs moto. 

[ricky racer]

What about product support? Parts readily available? Easy to get parts? I see a couple dealers within a couple hours of me. Wish I could ride one. I really love my 230 though. 

[VortecCPI]

230 pounds wet?  No way.  Maybe dry.  I'd like to see that number verified.

Edited August 2, 2017 by VortecCPI

[xplodee]

17 minutes ago, VortecCPI said:

230 pounds wet?  No way.  Maybe dry.  I'd like to see that number verified.

The website said 230lbs sans gas. Considering the amount of billet aluminum, the design of the fuel tank, exhaust, triples, forks, etc, i dont see why it would be hard to hit 230lbs (without gas, so say 240 full) if our bikes are 250 with tons of cast aluminum and steel versus machined billet. 

[VortecCPI]

4 minutes ago, xplodee said:

The website said 230lbs sans gas. Considering the amount of billet aluminum, the design of the fuel tank, exhaust, triples, forks, etc, i dont see why it would be hard to hit 230lbs (without gas, so say 240 full) if our bikes are 250 with tons of cast aluminum and steel versus machined billet. 

That OP wrote 230 pounds wet so that makes more sense to me.  So 230 + (1.8 x 6.3) = 241 pounds.

My CRF230 is down to 241 pounds wet so seems reasonable.

Edited August 2, 2017 by VortecCPI

[Oldie230]

8 hours ago, mixxer said:

My one and only reservation is that I fear the bike could be utter and complete garbage....!!

 

Other than that though...

 

With respect Mixxer, this company, the bikes and their ancestors, and the components from respected and proven companies, have been around for quite a few years now, and your 'reservations' have actually been proven to be utter and complete garbage.

other than that though.... ?

Edited August 2, 2017 by Oldie230

[VortecCPI]

18 minutes ago, Oldie230 said:

With respect Mixxer, this company, the bikes and their ancestors, and the components from respected and proven companies, have been around for quite a few years now, and your 'reservations' have actually been proven to be utter and complete garbage.

other than that though.... ?

And yet here we are in the CRF230 forum and nobody in here is flocking to them...

When Toyota launched the Lexus brand it was an instant success by ALL measures and drivers DID flock to them.  If CRF230 riders have not flocked to the AJP PR4 by now when will they?  AJP + Zongshen has a LONG way to go...

Edited August 2, 2017 by VortecCPI

[Oldie230]

Well.... it IS the CRF fanboy forum! ?

In my case though, it is only because I am cheap, (and currently somewhat financially challenged ),  that I have not gone that way yet.

Also because I am reasonably happy with my CRF as it gives me a lot of low cost fun. But I do recognise that the Honda bike has far from 'state of the art' suspension, handling and weight. I also see that there is massive potential to use what has been learned and developed for the CRF230f to significantly improve the power output of the AJP, which I see as its only inadequacy, and which should be fairly easily addressed.

[xplodee]

1 minute ago, Oldie230 said:

Well.... it IS the CRF fanboy forum! ?

^this

besides its still a new brand in the US, its hard to compete against Honda afterall. Even the TTR230 doesnt have the vocal fan base that the CRF does. 

[VortecCPI]

8 minutes ago, xplodee said:

^this

besides its still a new brand in the US, its hard to compete against Honda afterall. Even the TTR230 doesnt have the vocal fan base that the CRF does. 

Lexus had no problem crushing long-standing brands all around the world.  We even have Nissan and Toyota pickup trucks all around us in the USA -- Who would have ever thought loyal Ford and GM pickup owners would jump ship?

If the AJP PR4 was a truly magnificent machine you would see it everywhere just as we saw the Lexus LS400 come on the scene in 1989.

It is likely a very good bike but is it a new benchmark and cornerstone by which to measure ALL others?  Seems obvious it is not.

Rick Ramsey has had one for quite some time and I have read no rave reviews.

Edited August 2, 2017 by VortecCPI

[Oldie230]

51 minutes ago, VortecCPI said:

 

When Toyota launched the Lexus brand it was an instant success by ALL measures and drivers DID flock to them.  

................

AJP + Zongshen has a LONG way to go...

With respect Vortec, the analogy is totally off and irrelevant, if only because Toyota was a very well established, well known and respected brand with huge established dealer base. Besides that, my teachers taught me that argument by analogy is not clear thinking/relevant.

 

Yes, AJP has a long way to go in establishing a name and a dealer network in the market. That means nothing when assessing the actual quality or utility of a product.

I think Australians are ahead of much of the world in being early adopters. Maybe a little less closed minded? ?

Sales success in volume is not necessarily the only sign of a good product.

 

Edited August 2, 2017 by Oldie230

[Oldie230]

22 minutes ago, VortecCPI said:

If the AJP PR4 was a truly magnificent machine you would see it everywhere just as we saw the Lexus LS400 come on the scene in 1989.

It is likely a very good bike but is it a new benchmark and cornerstone by which to measure ALL others?  Seems obvious it is not.

Rick Ramsey has had one for quite some time and I have read no rave reviews.

It would not be the first time that a superior product failed to have huge immediate sales for umpteen reasons.

Not obvious at all to me.

Rick has extensively modified and improved what he sees as things needing it everything he has touched. CRF230 included.

I have already stated that the AJP engine will need some serious work to satisfy me, but then I did that to my Honda as well....

He mate! I am not trying to sell you one, or tell you you have wasted your money or bought the wrong bike. What do you care if I like the looks of it and desire one?

Edited August 2, 2017 by Oldie230
spelling

[mixxer]

7 hours ago, bajatrailrider said:

Suspension by Sachs that could not be same company that made the Sachs motorcycle. If it is wonder if anybody is old enough like me. That had a Sachs moto. 

Didn't own one... But have ridden in the 70s... Love the cooling fins that make you think a 175 was a 500...lol

I may be wrong... But I thought Sachs were the ones involved in Penton's bikes... And later became KTM...

But I have never known the name Sachs to be synonymous with awesome suspension in any case

[Oldie230]

Is any suspension company name universally considered to be synonymous with awesome  suspension? ?

 

 

[mixxer]

1 hour ago, Oldie230 said:

With respect Mixxer, this company, the bikes and their ancestors, and the components from respected and proven companies, have been around for quite a few years now, and your 'reservations' have actually been proven to be utter and complete garbage.

other than that though.... ?

I'm not sure what your description of "proven" actually is...

Given that they have "proven" to not have an engineering department by their powerplant being a copy of 40 year old Japanese design...

Proven by supercross wins maybe??

Proven as a woods weapon in Enduro and hare scrambles??

Dominating motocross tracks??

Proven with an aftermarket and dealer support base??

Proven suspension to not only look modern but to have modern componentry and quality components??

Horsepower=Wear.... So zero hp equals zero wear....  Low output copied design no engineering department... But a billion Asians using for daily commute can't be wrong , no??

I guess we just may have a different definition of proven...

Proven to copy and sell cheaply on a zero hp design just isn't enough to clear the hurdle of proof for me...

[bajatrailrider]

Proven Suspension from a company called Sachs. They could never build a reliable bike let alone suspension. If I understand right (correct me if Im wrong) This bike has only a 5sp trans if so,even more outdated then the Crf230.