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Whiskey Throttle

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Hi Everyone,

 

I'm new to the page/forum so I'm sorry if I am asking a repetitive question I did try and look to see if its been asked to no luck. I got into dirt bikes a couple years ago (keeping in mind i was riding very infrequently) and now that I've come into more time I've gotten way more into and because I make a good income I decided I deserved a new bike. So I went from a 1997 xr250r to a 2017 250XC-F. Let me tell you what an eye opener the last couple weeks have been for me. Even with Traction Control engaged on my bike the Hit is so hard I can't ride anything but easy trails and I'm struggling to get back to good positioning where I'm not death gripping the throttle every 5min and careening to my doom. I have had so much different advice I'm at the point I'm kind of getting lost in it all and want to go back to basics but I'm honestly not even sure where that is anymore. 

 

Any input is appreciated.

 

Thank you

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I hear your pain Shantelly.  I'm a relative beginner as well (3rd year). My bike is a 2013 250xcw.  It was more than a handful for a guy who'd never ridden a motorbike before.  I took a serious beating when I started, all from whiskey throttle.  Torn meniscus in my knee, detached bicep and demolished pride.  I tried to ride as much as possible hoping seat time would take care of the problem. It didn't. Squeeze the bike with your knees? No luck either. I got fed up and went to the track,  not to ride but to watch.

One thing I did notice about the track riders was how planted they were on the pegs. By planted, I mean all their weight was on the pegs (when standing).  I could tell because their ankles would be cocked with the heel of their foot often riding well below the height of the peg. The next day I went out riding and concentrated fully on letting my weight flex my ankles so that the pegs were fully weighted and my calves were in a ready position to deal with the acceleration.  Whiskey throttle problem solved immediately. That's probably incorrect technique but that's what worked for me. I think it works because the energy from acceleration goes directly into your flexed ankle/calf which gives your brain a split second of reaction time to re-distribute your weight. Also, try positioning your feet slightly pigeon toe'd. It gives me the same effect...it drives the energy of the accelerating bike into your feet.

Edited by SoftOption
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Adjust your throttle cables to give a bunch of slop in the throttle. That will help w whiskey throttle. 

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20 hours ago, Shantelly said:

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm new to the page/forum so I'm sorry if I am asking a repetitive question I did try and look to see if its been asked to no luck. I got into dirt bikes a couple years ago (keeping in mind i was riding very infrequently) and now that I've come into more time I've gotten way more into and because I make a good income I decided I deserved a new bike. So I went from a 1997 xr250r to a 2017 250XC-F. Let me tell you what an eye opener the last couple weeks have been for me. Even with Traction Control engaged on my bike the Hit is so hard I can't ride anything but easy trails and I'm struggling to get back to good positioning where I'm not death gripping the throttle every 5min and careening to my doom. I have had so much different advice I'm at the point I'm kind of getting lost in it all and want to go back to basics but I'm honestly not even sure where that is anymore. 

 

Any input is appreciated.

 

Thank you

Ya that's quite a bike change and IMO very nice bike and I'm now slightly jealous :)

I'm on a Honda CFR250R that I only ride woods in Squamish and it took me a few year to get that bike sorted out and I've recently tried a buddies 2016 KTM 250XC-W 2 stroke and it scared the living crap out of me and it was like relearning how to ride a bike. I hit the gas on a small jump that was NP on my 250R and on the 250XC-W I launched off so big my feet were over my head and it was all I could do to land it with out killing myself.

Out of interest, roughly where in BC are you riding?

IMO this bike is going to take some time getting used to riding and its unfortunate about the different advice your getting cus its not something that is really easy to explain in forum and much easier when your with good riders who are patient and willing to help with solid advice.

Sorry I can't really help here and maybe someone else will give you advice you can use.

 

 

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It comes down to learning throttle control. The xr you can had would rev slower, respond slower and we'll was just slower. You had to twist the throttle more than you need to on the xcf. Like was said before ride a gear hi and maybe buy a G2 throttle tamer. Or get a cr500 or kx500 and ride it for a month.  Once your back on the xcf  will seem tame.

Edited by GreenMT_Rider
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1 hour ago, CDNSXV said:

Adjust your throttle cables to give a bunch of slop in the throttle. That will help w whiskey throttle. 

Meh... I wouldn't recommend this after trying it myself.  Slop in the throttle cable just created more instances of re-grip which in turn led to just as many if not more whiskey throttles.

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1 hour ago, filterx said:

Ya that's quite a bike change and IMO very nice bike and I'm now slightly jealous :)

I'm on a Honda CFR250R that I only ride woods in Squamish and it took me a few year to get that bike sorted out and I've recently tried a buddies 2016 KTM 250XC-W 2 stroke and it scared the living crap out of me and it was like relearning how to ride a bike. I hit the gas on a small jump that was NP on my 250R and on the 250XC-W I launched off so big my feet were over my head and it was all I could do to land it with out killing myself.

Out of interest, roughly where in BC are you riding?

IMO this bike is going to take some time getting used to riding and its unfortunate about the different advice your getting cus its not something that is really easy to explain in forum and much easier when your with good riders who are patient and willing to help with solid advice.

Sorry I can't really help here and maybe someone else will give you advice you can use.

 

 

Haha don't be I don't by any means do her justice I cant even get her into 6th on a logging road yet. I eventually would like to also have a two stroke but I got a lot of learning to do before then :P. Thats what I felt like in the single track i didn't see some whoops and I have no idea how I didn't swap out I ended up going over the handle bars but that was like 20feet after. 

I'm riding Chilliwack/Hope area. I grew up in Maple Ridge so I did a little bit of Blue Mountain not tons. 

I've been watching a lot of videos so I have a bunch of new things to try out I just want to make sure I'm able to stay on the bike long enough to try them out ;P

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Well there is a whole different school of thought to consider here. Some say throttle control and where that may work for you I'd consider using a more useful technique that comes from trials riding and more technical enduro riding. Total clutch control, forget about the throttle. You can ride all day with the throttle held at a certain RPM and just modulate the clutch for whatever forward momentum you need. If you treat the clutch as your movement on / off switch things like whiskey throttle and looping your bike will become a thing of the past.

If you hold the throttle in a fixed position for the most part (speed excluded) and use proper clutch modulation you will be able to control most every aspect of movement. You will be able to control movement, traction, tire spin as well as be better able to balance standing without lurching back and forth like happens using the throttle.

This may sound strange to some but it is the proper technique for technical riding and once mastered you'll wonder how you ever rode any other way.

The clutch will cotrol the connection between your motor and rear tire faster and more effective that the throttle any day.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Shantelly said:

Haha don't be I don't by any means do her justice I cant even get her into 6th on a logging road yet. I eventually would like to also have a two stroke but I got a lot of learning to do before then :P. Thats what I felt like in the single track i didn't see some whoops and I have no idea how I didn't swap out I ended up going over the handle bars but that was like 20feet after. 

I'm riding Chilliwack/Hope area. I grew up in Maple Ridge so I did a little bit of Blue Mountain not tons. 

I've been watching a lot of videos so I have a bunch of new things to try out I just want to make sure I'm able to stay on the bike long enough to try them out ;P

I'm not sure who's giving you advice and who you ride with but as a suggestion there is  dude TTT member @Pittbull who lives down that way and MIGHT be interested in going for a ride with you or recommend some people and IMO I would trust his advice. PM him and mention I recommend him :)

Otherwise, I've ridden with lots of knew riders and don't mind spending some easy riding time I MIGHT be able to give you some good advice if you wanted to come up to Squamish for a day.

Please understand this yes it a appears you are a girl BUT I make this offer to anyone who is interested :) and have meet at least 3 or 4 people here who have come to Squamish to ride and IMO you can watch videos etc but riding with good patient riders who will give you good advice is in valuable.

Feel free to shoot me a PM if your interested.

 

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8 minutes ago, Pittbull said:

Well there is a whole different school of thought to consider here. Some say throttle control and where that may work for you I'd consider using a more useful technique that comes from trials riding and more technical enduro riding. Total clutch control, forget about the throttle. You can ride all day with the throttle held at a certain RPM and just modulate the clutch for whatever forward momentum you need. If you treat the clutch as your movement on / off switch things like whiskey throttle and looping your bike will become a thing of the past.

If you hold the throttle in a fixed position for the most part (speed excluded) and use proper clutch modulation you will be able to control most every aspect of movement. You will be able to control movement, traction, tire spin as well as be better able to balance standing without lurching back and forth like happens using the throttle.

This may sound strange to some but it is the proper technique for technical riding and once mastered you'll wonder how you ever rode any other way.

The clutch will cotrol the connection between your motor and rear tire faster and more effective that the throttle any day.

 

 

Hey dude, hope you don't mind me recommending they contact you cus obviously you did not offer here BUT as I just posted IMO REGARDLESS of who the person is, its invaluable riding with good patient riders who can give good advice in person (which might not be you).

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It's all good Filter Dude, I'm open to help who and where I can, always have. It's like pay back to the dozens who've helped me over the last 42 years that I've been on 2 wheels. You know "Pay it foreward" or how ever it goes...
OP (Shantelly) feel free to PM me for a few hour ride at McNutt if you wish. I'm usually free Friday -> Sunday although Sunday I like to ride my favorite trails in tough enough stuff to get my YaYas out :)
I've helped a few people over the years become much better riders than I am now.

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Hey telly. Im new at riding, too, but learning fast. Get some coaching or watch every training video on the CROSS TRAINING ENDURO SKILLS channel. Barry will square you right away. I became a supporter because of how much he helped me both with riding and riding perspective. Some of his tidbits will ring loudly in your head while riding and stuff will start to click. Did for me. My two biggest factors to speed and comfort on the bike relatively quick came from Barry and the gym. Seems like the stronger your muscles and balance are it lets you be lighter on the bike and truly ride it vs just being reactionary to what happens. 

 

Anyway, for what its worth. Have a good one, stay safe, and rip tits. 

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Very good point there by @Pittbull about relaxing the clutch as you accelerate 

Also from a technical point of view you can also do some minor non-expensive twiks , and I wonder how come no-one reminded of these as they are  very well known 

get a green spring  : thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1032786-which-pv-spring-for-most-low-end/ - can do it yourself

delay the timing by a few degrees ( gives more low end and PV opens more linear ) - should be done by a mechanic , or you if you have mechanical inclinations

 

play with the jetting - this one i have not tried yet , just heard about 

Open to new ideas as to how reduce the HIT , but these are 3 the most elementary .

 

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This is probably similar to what's already been said. What I've learned is to stand up and lean forward, anticipating the acceleration and letting my legs do as much of the work as possible.

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Man..try riding a 2017 450 sx f tight single track super technical it will get you in really good shape..or hurt. 

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....just in case anyone is wondering, if you were wanting a thumper for single track the ktm 450 sx f is actually AWESOME even with stock gearing it did just fine well now I went up 2 teeth in the back and it is THE BEST off road bike I've ever been on the suspension is so adjustable for anything woods to 40 ft table tops.

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