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WP 4cs Build on a Budget?

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Well I blew my wad on a 2014 300xc and didn't realize I was going to need and drop another $1,500 to get my forks in usable form. These forks suck in the cobblestone trails and boulder fields of the Wind River Range. My arms get jack hammered and I can't keep a line to save my ass! I'm a slow old guy that doesn't need to run 6th gear pinned on our desert rides and I prefer to go slow and ride trials style through the rock gardens. I live in the middle of Wyoming so no local tuners.


Should I send my suspension to a tuner else where or dive in and try to fix them myself? I'm a good wrench spinner but have never worked on fork or shock internals. Looking for real world experiences either way. I've read the 94 page fork thread on ktm talk but I'm still unsure. I can swing $500 today but wondering if I should save my coins and dump $1k for better results.
 
Thanks!

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707 suspension did my forks and shock for around $1200. They put the Huck valve in my forks. It got rid of the mid stroke jackhammer effect on my 4cs forks. Rock gardens are way better now.

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1 hour ago, farmboybunk said:

I've heard good things about Del Saggio kits. They have a lower cost kit called the Ray kit. I've don't have first hand experience, only read about it here on ThumperTalk.

dal soggio, TTX Cartridge, or KYB SSS, remedy for 4CS
https://thumpertalk.com/index.php?/topic/1198294-dal-soggio%2C-TTX-Cartridge%2C-or-KYB-SSS%2C-remedy-for-4CS

For the money, the Ray Kit is hard too beat... But the Sphere is something else! So much goodness to be found... 

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The Del Saggio Ray kit is within my budget. Kreft and most KYB SSS cart installs are over $1k. They already have one revalve from a respected TX tuner and I still hate them. What about the MX tech asymmetrical conversion? Any one run those?

 

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Ever considered the long term cost of getting 4cs sorted proper vs buying air or open chamber off e*ay? My xcw open chamber are like the holy grail now after Ty Davis blessed them :-). Just something to consider and you can put the 4cs on e*ay to recover some of your funds.

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I have done a MX Tech revalve (with new valve) kit years ago on a Yamaha and instructions were great. It was much easier than I ever imagined, just go slow and follow the instructions. I would have no problem getting one of their kits and doing it myself again. The Race Tech kits look as good with instructions, but when I got this kit I had someone install it and shorten my suspension at the same time. 

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What part of middle of Wyoming? If you are near the Idaho side there is a guy in Pocatello that does pretty good work on 4CS for a pretty good price. They still suck though... mine were also on a 2014 300XC and pretty good for 4CS but I would go Dal saggio if you have the $2,000.

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The problem with putting actual money into the 4cs is you'll never it get it back. At the best least with a Dal Soggio kit, SSS setup etc, is you can take it out and sell it separately when you're done... 

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Ever considered the long term cost of getting 4cs sorted proper vs buying air or open chamber off e*ay? My xcw open chamber are like the holy grail now after Ty Davis blessed them :-). Just something to consider and you can put the 4cs on e*ay to recover some of your funds.

 

That is definitely an option I've considered.

 

Let's start that conversation. I've read a couple threads about installing kyb forks on a katoom, but also recall talks of custom machined parts for the axles and brakes to line up. Also guys ditching their Brembo brakes for Nissen.

 

 

I don't have $2,000 for del saggio sphere carts but maybe a kyb cart install would be $1,500 and possible.

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20 hours ago, Scoutin Wyo said:

 

That is definitely an option I've considered.

 

Let's start that conversation. I've read a couple threads about installing kyb forks on a katoom, but also recall talks of custom machined parts for the axles and brakes to line up. Also guys ditching their Brembo brakes for Nissen.

 

 

I don't have $2,000 for del saggio sphere carts but maybe a kyb cart install would be $1,500 and possible.

I am sure the del saggio sphere can be had for around $1500 which is,from the people I have spoken with an amazing ( A ) kit.IF you are an A rider.If not,the Ray kit gets great reviews.

Edited by NateDavis

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I am sure the del saggio sphere can be had for around $1500 which is,from the people I have spoken with an amazing ( A ) kit.IF you are an A rider.If not,the Ray kit gets great reviews.


Ya I'm definitely not an A rider. I think I need something I can valve for plush single track and baby head riding.

I put on another hour and a half on the bike today. Turned the fork comp out 26 and the rebound out 20. It felt better today. The rear was still kicking up and to the side when I hit square rocks.

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27 minutes ago, Scoutin Wyo said:

 


Ya I'm definitely not an A rider. I think I need something I can valve for plush single track and baby head riding.

I put on another hour and a half on the bike today. Turned the fork comp out 26 and the rebound out 20. It felt better today. The rear was still kicking up and to the side when I hit square rocks.

 

The Dal Soggio Spheres aren't specifically for A riders. They just offer a wider range of tune ability due to the whole 4CS system being removed and replaced. Literally a drop in suspension system. But you do have to remove the fork lugs to install the new bottoming cones for the Sphere kit.

The Ray kit addresses 95% of the problems with the 4cs but you're still limited by some of the 4cs stock components such as the 8mm shaft. IMO, I would look into the Ray kit as it does offer close to if not exactly what you want... 

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1 minute ago, Scoutin Wyo said:

 


Ya I'm definitely not an A rider. I think I need something I can valve for plush single track and baby head riding.

I put on another hour and a half on the bike today. Turned the fork comp out 26 and the rebound out 20. It felt better today. The rear was still kicking up and to the side when I hit square rocks.

I bet the Ray kit would make you happy and it would come in around $400-500 ( Slavens wants $497 ).Read up on spring rate vs your geared weight and see if springs are in order.Having suspension professionally valved and sprung makes a world of difference,not always needed but my set up is amazing and I do not regret it one bit.If you can drop $1500 on suspension you could get the front and back professionally sorted to a very livable point and feel good about the choice you made.Sit down,call around and start pricing things out.Be realistic with your self and the builder on how you intend to use your bike.

 

 

 

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I feel your pain. I too, am an old slow guy. I just bought a 2013 300xc. I use it for desert racing and mountain riding in North Eastern Utah. I wanted to sell the bike after I bought it. I came off of a WR450 and hated the suspension of the 300. It seemed like I could feel every little pebble that I ran over, and that anything I hit that was bigger than a golf ball was going to sent me off the trail. On the other hand, even after I resprung it, I would bottom out on the big hits.

I ended up talking to a suspension guy that does a lot of suspensions for the desert race community here in Utah at the recommendation of other KTM riders. I was told that he has the KTM suspension dialed. I decided to give him a try. I only had him revalve the forks because I was on a budget, but HOLY SHIT! What a difference it made. The first ride was night and day difference from what it was before. I rode the same trails as I had been riding before the forks were done, but much faster and with confidence in the bike. You talk about boulder fields and such. The mountain trails that I ride are all washed out, like a creek bed. It made it much more enjoyable to ride. I have never had suspension work done other than what I do myself until now. Well worth the money. The price was good, less than $400. https://www.divisionsuspension.com/ Jesse Black did a fantastic job. It's worth the call to at least talk to him. 

 

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For the money you can not beat race tech base valve conversion kit, take it a step further(free) and go open chamber. 

My 4cs work so good I'm running them on my 17. I have the race tech bases and my own shim stacks, still closed chamber.



 

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On 8/29/2017 at 2:23 PM, 1trackmind said:

I feel your pain. I too, am an old slow guy. I just bought a 2013 300xc. I use it for desert racing and mountain riding in North Eastern Utah. I wanted to sell the bike after I bought it. I came off of a WR450 and hated the suspension of the 300. It seemed like I could feel every little pebble that I ran over, and that anything I hit that was bigger than a golf ball was going to sent me off the trail. On the other hand, even after I resprung it, I would bottom out on the big hits.

I ended up talking to a suspension guy that does a lot of suspensions for the desert race community here in Utah at the recommendation of other KTM riders. I was told that he has the KTM suspension dialed. I decided to give him a try. I only had him revalve the forks because I was on a budget, but HOLY SHIT! What a difference it made. The first ride was night and day difference from what it was before. I rode the same trails as I had been riding before the forks were done, but much faster and with confidence in the bike. You talk about boulder fields and such. The mountain trails that I ride are all washed out, like a creek bed. It made it much more enjoyable to ride. I have never had suspension work done other than what I do myself until now. Well worth the money. The price was good, less than $400. https://www.divisionsuspension.com/ Jesse Black did a fantastic job. It's worth the call to at least talk to him. 

 

13' was twin chamber forks not 4cs. The WP twin chambers need very little work to make amazing in the woods. 

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28 minutes ago, TommyB 754 said:

For the money you can not beat race tech base valve conversion kit, take it a step further(free) and go open chamber. 

My 4cs work so good I'm running them on my 17. I have the race tech bases and my own shim stacks, still closed chamber.



 

Your post will be ignored just like mine, great advice however.

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