Help-Need info from shop manual

[motobri]

Does any one have the recent shop manual for 17 FE 450/501? I'm looking for the wiring diagram for the radiator fan. Boiled it over yesterday because fan wouldn't come on. Already replace thermo sensor and fan works if directly connect to hot. Don't want to start cutting into the wrapped loom blind.

Leaving for 4 day Colorado ride Wednesday so any help is appreciated!

TIA

[Sigma Pi]

Bump for you, I want to go on that ride! 

[lewoolf2]

Did you replace this it's located on the cylinder head. It solved my fan problem. No.27 on https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-schematic/7 

TEMPERATUR SENSOR WATER

131307011173

$14.09

[lewoolf2]

Do you have a 450 and are using an after market ecu?

[Filipe]

13 hours ago, motobri said:

Does any one have the recent shop manual for 17 FE 450/501? I'm looking for the wiring diagram for the radiator fan.

TIA

Check your PM

[markbfe501]

Check your PM

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by markbfe501

[motobri]

7 hours ago, lewoolf2 said:

Did you replace this it's located on the cylinder head. It solved my fan problem. No.27 on https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-schematic/7 

TEMPERATUR SENSOR WATER

131307011173

$14.09

Yes, already did that.

[motobri]

7 hours ago, lewoolf2 said:

Do you have a 450 and are using an after market ecu?

Yes, FE 450. It has the been remapped to the FC (moto) map, BDS fuel rail, air box reed delete and aluminum tube, BDS end cap. Smog crap deleted also

[lewoolf2]

Having it remapped to the FC moto map might be where your problem lies. It does not have a program in it to turn the fan on at a predetermined temperature. I had the same problem using the Vortex ECU on my FE450. They are trying to use the SX or FC map on the FE and EXC. My fan also would not turn on and caused me to overheat my motor while trail riding.I also changed out my Temp Water Sensor. Returned to using my stocked map which is remapped to Euro standards and now my fan works like it should. I was told Vortex will be making a ECU specific to the FC/EXC in the coming months. I was told the guys are installing a switch to turn the fan on those who are using the FC/SX based ecu's. Hope this helps, it's not your wiring.

Edited September 4, 2017 by lewoolf2

[motobri]

2 hours ago, lewoolf2 said:

Having it remapped to the FC moto map might be where your problem lies. It does not have a program in it to turn the fan on at a predetermined temperature. I had the same problem using the Vortex ECU on my FE450. They are trying to use the SX or FC map on the FE and EXC. My fan also would not turn on and caused me to overheat my motor while trail riding.I also changed out my Temp Water Sensor. Returned to using my stocked map which is remapped to Euro standards and now my fan works like it should. I was told Vortex will be making a ECU specific to the FC/EXC in the coming months. I was told the guys are installing a switch to turn the fan on those who are using the FC/SX based ecu's. Hope this helps, it's not your wiring.

I was thinking that may be an issue but didn't think the ECU had anything to do with the radiator fan function. What happens is someone w/ a FC/SXF bike wanted to add a fan? Won't work? Furthermore, would one not be able to add a trail tech fan because of the ECU?

Edited September 5, 2017 by motobri

[markbfe501]

Just FYI, I put the Vortex for the FE501/EXC500 on my FE501.  Rode single track for the first time with it today.  Fan kicked on just as it should all day (when I got into tighter/slow stuff or stopped).  I have the map switch, and tried 3 different maps.  Fan worked on all 3.  If your map is the issue, a Vortex should solve it.

If you look at the schematic, the coolant temp sensor feeds into the ECU (pin 21), and the fan relay is energized by the ECU (pin 5).  A lot of aftermarket fans (and even in the case of my 05 450EXC OEM adder fan) use a thermal switch that screws into the radiator, or is inserted in one of the radiator hoses.  This switch turns the fan on at one temp, and turns it back off after it has cooled down to a second, cooler temp.

Edited September 5, 2017 by markbfe501

[lewoolf2]

Trail Tech has its own programmable temperature control system and it works great. I am using one on a 300 XC. The motocross models do not come from the factory with a fan. The 500/501 FE/EXC models are setup by Vortex to run a electric fan. The motocross models are not at least on the 450 KTM and Husqvarna models. You will have a problem with the fan not coming on with the Vortex until they make one specifically for the FE/EXC 450. I have tried the Vortex that's why I am writing this so others will not have to go thru what I did. I tried 2 different Vortex ecu that were suppose to work on the FE/EXC and both ecu had written on them 450 SX/FC they work great except the fan does not come on. This is what was sent to me even tho I told them I want one for the FE

Edited September 5, 2017 by lewoolf2

[japan1]

Guys thanks for this. My concern is not so much the overheating but do SXF maps work on the EXCF 450 2017 ? 

I just bought one from slavens then after checking that the correct one was sent to me ( SXF on the box) 

The SXF is a different beast to the EXCF  cams injectors compression etc 

The maps written do not seem to relate to the EXCF how does it run? Which maps should I use? 

 

Any help would be great !!

 

Cheers

[markbfe501]

11 hours ago, japan1 said:

Guys thanks for this. My concern is not so much the overheating but do SXF maps work on the EXCF 450 2017 ? 

I just bought one from slavens then after checking that the correct one was sent to me ( SXF on the box) 

The SXF is a different beast to the EXCF  cams injectors compression etc 

The maps written do not seem to relate to the EXCF how does it run? Which maps should I use? 

 

Any help would be great !!

 

Cheers

I would call Jeff and ask him whether it will work.  If not, I'm sure he'll swap you for the one you need.

[rgood4]

Does anyone know when Vortex is coming out with a 450 EXC specific ECU?  I just ordered the Vortex (should be here today).  Now I am a bit concerned about the fan issue.   Could buy the trail tech kit but there goes another $150.  I love this bike but I have put a ton of money into it before I have really ridden it!

[markbfe501]

1 hour ago, rgood4 said:

Does anyone know when Vortex is coming out with a 450 EXC specific ECU?  I just ordered the Vortex (should be here today).  Now I am a bit concerned about the fan issue.   Could buy the trail tech kit but there goes another $150.  I love this bike but I have put a ton of money into it before I have really ridden it!

I thought they made one for the 450EXC,

https://slavensracing.com/shop/vortex-10-map-ecu-ktm-vortex/

Might call Jeff Slavens or Blais and ask specifically about whether the 450EXC unit operates the fan as it should.

[rgood4]

21 minutes ago, markbfe501 said:

I thought they made one for the 450EXC,

https://slavensracing.com/shop/vortex-10-map-ecu-ktm-vortex/

Might call Jeff Slavens or Blais and ask specifically about whether the 450EXC unit operates the fan as it should.

If you look at the Blaise site it says:

"Note:  450 EXC/ FE450 ECU's.  We are using the 450 SXF ECU for this bike since there isn't one available for the 450 EXC to make more power.  This ECU will not turn on your Fan!  You will have to run a switch to turn your fan on manually!"

It must be missing the pin connection that operates the fan (hardware issue not software).  I sent a note to Blaise I will see what he comes back with. This appears to be a 450 issue only does not impact 350/500.   I think trail tech kit will bypass the ECU based fan control.  

[markbfe501]

12 minutes ago, rgood4 said:

If you look at the Blaise site it says:

"Note:  450 EXC/ FE450 ECU's.  We are using the 450 SXF ECU for this bike since there isn't one available for the 450 EXC to make more power.  This ECU will not turn on your Fan!  You will have to run a switch to turn your fan on manually!"

It must be missing the pin connection that operates the fan (hardware issue not software).  I sent a note to Blaise I will see what he comes back with. This appears to be a 450 issue only does not impact 350/500.   I think trail tech kit will bypass the ECU based fan control.  

Well that's a bummer!  You'd think since they make one that operates the fan for the 500's, they'd know how to (and know that they should) operate the fan on the 450's.

[japan1]

52 minutes ago, markbfe501 said:

I thought they made one for the 450EXC,

https://slavensracing.com/shop/vortex-10-map-ecu-ktm-vortex/

Might call Jeff Slavens or Blais and ask specifically about whether the 450EXC unit operates the fan as it should.

I asked the HQ in Austraila if they did in fact make one for the 450 EXC. His reply was that they did not have a vortex for the 460 EXC. The simple reason is that they don't have many 450 there to test it on. He made it clear that the SXF 450 has very different maps to a potential EXC and his advice was to not use the SXF unit. He did mention that they should have a EXC version around Xmas . I actually returned my Vortex to Slavens this week

[motobri]

Update-

Had a spare trail tech fan that I used for the trip. When I tried to wire the TT fan to the stock plug, it still wouldn't come on so I wired it direct to the battery.  This tells me that the SXF/FC map must not have provisions for the fan as lewolf2 said. Nice feature w/ the TT fan is the Temp setting right on the display, so no battery draw down issues.

On another note, I rode a bone stock FE450 with a Vortex while in CO back to back to mine and the power, especially the bottom, was significantly stronger. The bummer is, it seems I'm stuck w/ the the moto map because dealers from Cali to Utah to Co wont touch mapping anymore. Looks like its Vortex for me now. 

On day one, I got bit by the clutch slave gremlin and lost my clutch. Luckily a dealer in Grand Junction had a take off from a 350 customer who just installed a Rekluse. Bummer was the housing is different but luckily we were able to swap the inners and it held up the next 4 days. I will be switching to a Rekluse myself and keeping this one as a spare but I would suggest anyone going on long or multi day rides carry a spare!

Enjoy a couple of pix from some of the best riding I've ever done. Can't wait to go back.

Cheers.