Cam advice 470 (promise I searched)

[jjktmrider]

When I built my stroker motor and talked with a few builders then the guys at Web I went with the smaller 288/293 cams for better lowend at some topend loss , I wanted to the the bottom end better since I don't care to rev the crap out of my motors and all my other bikes are mostly big cc and low torque beasts so I tend to short shift .  If your after takeoff and steady throttle cruising power the big cams aren't the ones that would be ideal (I would love to see some dyno comparisons on these different profile to see exact curve changes) . If your after all out power with preference for more up top then the bigger grinds are better . Unfortunately you can't have the best lowend and keep all topend and vice versa, there will be a tradeoff to an extent , unless you can develop a variable cam timing system or make a dual lobe profile cams like the Honda S2000's  VTec motor that uses one lobe for low rpms then as the rpms go up they switch to the more aggressive lobe , best of both worlds .

 

 

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Edited September 9, 2017 by jjktmrider

[Savage422]

You guys are a plethora of cam knowledge.  I appreciate all the info. I think I'll order the web 540/539. It would be nice if megavycle could do the same exhaust grind so starting is easier, but I'll have to call them Monday and see

I'll order a set of their valve springs also while I'm at it.

[Beta300REcat]

10 hours ago, Savage422 said:

You guys are a plethora of cam knowledge.  I appreciate all the info. I think I'll order the web 540/539. It would be nice if megavycle could do the same exhaust grind so starting is easier, but I'll have to call them Monday and see

I'll order a set of their valve springs also while I'm at it.

Definitely look into springs if you're doing a 10mm exhaust cam. I doubt you could tell the difference between the Web 539 or the Megacycle 327-x10.

Insofar as Web's original suggestion of  288/293, again, I'm running larger cams than that with the stock bore.

 

[jjktmrider]

You do realize those grind recommendations are for lowend , not simply what will make the most power ,which will be up top ???  I'd think the cam manufacturer would know more about what will work better than somebody on the internet . Those cams have worked good for me , the thing has a bunch of torque down low and cruising power , changed the motor characteristics quite a bit and still has plenty up top the few times I go there . People forget these aren't race bikes ,plus when your spending 80-90% of the motors life at low-mid rpms (daily cruising) that's where I want to have my best power and torque. Maybe I get my fill of high strung , screaming motors with my TE(and ex-WR400) and go easier on the DRZ than most .

 

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Edited September 10, 2017 by jjktmrider

[Beta300REcat]

31 minutes ago, jjktmrider said:

1) You do realize those grind recommendations are for lowend , not simply what will make the most power ,which will be up top ???

 2) I'd think the cam manufacturer would know more about what will work better than somebody on the internet .

3) Those cams have worked good for me , the thing has a bunch of torque down low and cruising power , changed the motor characteristics quite a bit and still has plenty up top the few times I go there .

4)People forget these aren't race bikes ,plus when your spending 80-90% of the motors life at low-mid rpms (daily cruising) that's where I want to have my best power and torque.

5) Maybe I get my fill of high strung , screaming motors with my TE(and ex-WR400) and go easier on the DRZ than most .

1) Yes, I do realize they are a bottom end only cam. With the added displacement, I'm sure the power curve feels similar to stock configuration, and like the stock configuration, is incapable of hitting the rev limiter.

2) I agree, which is why they make larger cams for the same motor.

3) Sounds like a great commuter bike.

4) True, I forget mine isn't a race bike every time I ride it. You do know that the DRZ is the race platform from the 1999 RM, right? This is why many of the older RM parts fit these bikes. These bikes have under square bores, four valves and DOHC's. They idle at 1,800 and don't start to make power until 4k+, red lining at 10,000. This is a motor built to rev.

5) The WR400 didn't approach the performance of the DRZE until the mid 2000's, and only gained the balancer in 2007. Great you love your WR, Yamaha makes good quality bikes.

To quote Erik Marques regarding running both the 2003IN and 2003EX, (9.56mm lift and 243 duration @1mm), "If you did lose any low end, which I don't think I did, you won't miss it with all the power these cams are putting out!"

To repeat myself for the third time, the Web 293 exhaust cam is smaller than stock DRZE exhaust cam. Why would anybody interested in performance run a smaller exhaust cam on a 470 than the factory chose for the 400cc DRZE?

[ohiodrz400sm]

You do realize those grind recommendations are for lowend , not simply what will make the most power ,which will be up top ???  I'd think the cam manufacturer would know more about what will work better than somebody on the internet . Those cams have worked good for me , the thing has a bunch of torque down low and cruising power , changed the motor characteristics quite a bit and still has plenty up top the few times I go there . People forget these aren't race bikes ,plus when your spending 80-90% of the motors life at low-mid rpms (daily cruising) that's where I want to have my best power and torque. Maybe I get my fill of high strung , screaming motors with my TE(and ex-WR400) and go easier on the DRZ than most .
 
. 

1) Yes, I do realize they are a bottom end only cam. With the added displacement, I'm sure the power curve feels similar to stock configuration, and like the stock configuration, is incapable of hitting the rev limiter.
2) I agree, which is why they make larger cams for the same motor.
3) Sounds like a great commuter bike.
4) True, I forget mine isn't a race bike every time I ride it. You do know that the DRZ is the race platform from the 1999 RM, right? This is why many of the older RM parts fit these bikes. These bikes have under square bores, four valves and DOHC's. They idle at 1,800 and don't start to make power until 4k+, red lining at 10,000. This is a motor built to rev.
5) The WR400 didn't approach the performance of the DRZE until the mid 2000's, and only gained the balancer in 2007. Great you love your WR, Yamaha makes good quality bikes.
To quote Erik Marques regarding running both the 2003IN and 2003EX, (9.56mm lift and 243 duration @1mm), "If you did lose any low end, which I don't think I did, you won't miss it with all the power these cams are putting out!"
To repeat myself for the third time, the Web 293 exhaust cam is smaller than stock DRZE exhaust cam. Why would anybody interested in performance run a smaller exhaust cam on a 470 than the factory chose for the 400cc DRZE?

How long have you 2 been married?

I think he'll be happier with ANYTHING other than stock.

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[Savage422]

8 minutes ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

 

How long have you 2 been married?

I think he'll be happier with ANYTHING other than stock.

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 Guys I'm in the room! I can hear you. Lol

[Beta300REcat]

10 minutes ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

How long have you 2 been married?
 

 

Shotgun; about 2 years. ?

[jjktmrider]

Savage they were referring to me ,  I'm not a big fan of making my daily rider a loud abnoctious punk bike so I don't agree with some of the constant ideas around here that you have to have the biggest cam, loudest pipe , strip everything off to lose another pound, do everything exactly the same as everyone else or "your wrong"  . You said you wanted down low power , so that's where I was trying to help. Unfortunately the age-pool is too far down in this particular forum to see other's way of enjoying riding.

As I had said , I'd love to see some dyno charts that compare several of these different grinds to see what is actually lost , where and how much rather than just a bunch of squibling online with no proof on either side .

Of course there will be rebuttals , since they always have to have the last words .

 

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Edited September 10, 2017 by jjktmrider

[ohiodrz400sm]

 Guys I'm in the room! I can hear you. Lol

 

The DRZ's quad cousin uses the same basic engine and has been turned into everything from a woods bike, Glamis sand thrower, to a professional Nation motocross champion. There is allot more tribal knowledge out there for you to read. This is just a start.

 

http://www.suzukicentral.com/forums/#/topics/137193

 

http://www.suzukicentral.com/forums/#/topics/137370?page=2

 

There is no correct answer to which is the best. It comes down to what you want to accomplish. My thought is a commuter (freeway) will need some muscle up in the mid-range. Keep in mind, stock cams are tuned for the EPA, you will gain low end with any intake cam.

 

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[Beta300REcat]

9 minutes ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

There is no correct answer to which is the best. It comes down to what you want to accomplish. My thought is a commuter (freeway) will need some muscle up in the mid-range. Keep in mind, stock cams are tuned for the EPA, you will gain low end with any intake cam.

Very true, and not everybody understands this. Even the purpose build off-road enduros have EPA restrictions that limit the power they make based on cam configuration. Many people think that you have to choose bottom end OR top end. This is commonly misunderstood. Bikes that lack bottom end, idle like crap. ANY cam that boosts horsepower ALSO boost torque. As Ohio said ANY bigger intake will gain you low end. My bike idles smoother and more stable now than it did with the stock cams. My bike idles smoother and more stable now than it did with the stock cams. Take a peek at this dyno curve for a DRZE running the Yoshimura TRS Ti system. Letting the bike breathe made the torque pick up much earlier. Adding a bigger intake cam is going to push that curve higher, sooner and longer.

A bike that can barely leave the line in first gear without wheeling has gobs of torque, and gobs of horsepower too. You cannot have one without the other.

The TRS system is a competition legal 92db system; nothing 'punk' or 'obnoxious' about it, but it is fitted to a bike that makes even the the most seasoned 'Jack Daniels for breakfast' Harley riders cringe, look away, and cower in their black leather engineers boots. ?

 

[Savage422]

I guess I should clarify.

This bike is used as a commuter a lot, but I have plenty of stuff to use. Although I don't need balls out top end, i want to do hooligan crap, but track days, and generally be obnoxious on it too.

I used to daily drove a spooled 600hp blown smallblock camaro, so loud and obnoxious is fine with me.

I don't need a smooth freeway rider or I would have bought a cruiser.

Having said that,  more lift is always better across the board as lomg as it doesn't take away from any other portion of the power range. If i gain a ton up too and gain a good amount down low, I'm fine with that. That's better than a lot down low with little to no top end gain.

Monday I'll call both megavycle and web and order up a 540 from web then see what mega can do on the exhaust side.

I'll pull the head off and slap new springs on since the valves were redone less than 9k ago

[Beta300REcat]

4 minutes ago, Savage422 said:

I guess I should clarify.

This bike is used as a commuter a lot, but I have plenty of stuff to use. Although I don't need balls out top end, i want to do hooligan crap, but track days, and generally be obnoxious on it too.

I used to daily drove a spooled 600hp blown smallblock camaro, so loud and obnoxious is fine with me.

I don't need a smooth freeway rider or I would have bought a cruiser.

Having said that,  more lift is always better across the board as lomg as it doesn't take away from any other portion of the power range. If i gain a ton up too and gain a good amount down low, I'm fine with that. That's better than a lot down low with little to no top end gain.

Monday I'll call both megavycle and web and order up a 540 from web then see what mega can do on the exhaust side.

I'll pull the head off and slap new springs on since the valves were redone less than 9k ago

You won't be satisfied with the 2XX series cams.

The DRZ show occurs between 4,500 and 10,000 daily, and weekends, trail and/or street.

Again, I'll let Ohio suggest the exhaust system.

[Savage422]

I ended up ordering the 540/539 set from web this morning along witj new valve springs

I'll report back once I get them in next weekend and get this thing jetted.

Thanks for all the help!

[ohiodrz400sm]

Was that what Web said to go with?

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[Savage422]

3 minutes ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

Was that what Web said to go with?

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Yeah, after a little discussion,  they said those would work great.   She said I would still see a huge improvement in the entire range, but mid and top will be the largest gain. 

Edited September 11, 2017 by Savage422

[Savage422]

Super happy theysaid it would only take a few days to get them out.  Looks like I'll be putting them in this weekend. 

I've only got 9k miles on a new cam chain and new valves. Think there's any reason to put new ones in?

[ohiodrz400sm]

I ordered my cam on a Wednesday afternoon and she said they would make it that day and send it out. It arrived in the mail Saturday. I was impressed.

What kind of valves and tensioner do you have?

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[Savage422]

9 hours ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

I ordered my cam on a Wednesday afternoon and she said they would make it that day and send it out. It arrived in the mail Saturday. I was impressed.

What kind of valves and tensioner do you have?

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Finally got the head off. Best I can tell;

Bore 66.33mm

Stroke: 93.9mm

Any idea what my cc are?

Not sure what valves. I'll look at the receipt and update.

The chain is oem I think and it had a automatic tensioner for the last 10k but I just bought an tokyo mods mct

Also....wow, that's dirty

[ohiodrz400sm]

459.34 per your numbers.


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