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Dirt Rider 2017 450cc Off-Road GP bike Comparison

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3 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

Beta made the test against bikes with number plates! I'm about to read it, Keefer is pretty well respected.

http://www.dirtrider.com/2017-450cc-off-road-gp-bike-comparison

Thanks for always sharing all the links to things I'd never otherwise see.  

 

Edited by Ben500RR-S
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30 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

But probably just fine for most... 

Salvini is doing fine on his.

Uh yeah, that's not even close to stock......and he competes in Enduro events, not GNCC races.....

The whole point of the article was GP/GNCC RACING  ABILITY of the stock bikes.

You should read it sometime.

...oh, and Salvini is on a HONDA, not a BETA....has been for a while....

 

Edited by THE KRAN

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46 minutes ago, THE KRAN said:

Uh yeah, that's not even close to stock......and he competes in Enduro events, not GNCC races.....

The whole point of the article was GP/GNCC RACING  ABILITY of the stock bikes.

You should read it sometime.

...oh, and Salvini is on a HONDA, not a BETA....has been for a while....

 

You're out of touch.. Salvini is with Beta on a couple seasons now..

..and as far as world enduro championship goes... I don't see where gncc makes any difference.

Look at the dirtrider article .. it says for" someone who might want to do a GP or a GNCC " . .. You're taking your ornery cranky pills again Kran.. Relax it's just an article.

http://enduro21.com/index.php/endurogp/272-salvini-moves-to-beta-for-2016

http://enduro21.com/index.php/40-general/580-my-ride-alex-salvini-beta-430rr

Click standings in far right and GP .. 

http://www.enduro-live.info/

He's fast and doing pretty good too..

http://enduro21.com/index.php/40-general/870-salvini-gets-first-win-of-2016-in-italian-nationals

 

 

 

 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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2 hours ago, Ben500RR-S said:

Thanks for always sharing all the links to things I'd never otherwise see.  

 

That's the whole idea of this internet forum thingie. :thumbsup: I really wish I was busy at work today making money instead of playing on the net...Slow day with College football and Huricane distractions I guess.

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Test Takeaway with relation to Beta mostly:

At the beginning they stated it was for XC and GP type racers and not Enduros, yet still the Beta got in. This is good because I don't think it embarrassed Beta, it was a respectable last place, but the bike was the wrong tool for the job. Who knows if Beta ever makes a more race dedicated machine, but if they gave out this test bike they must have known what it was up against.

"We decided to focus this shootout on machines for the rider who might hit a GP or GNCC on Saturday but ride with some of his or her moto buddies on Sunday—basically bikes for fast, aggressive-type off-road racing and riding as well as being able to attack motocross tracks. This kept enduro bikes and trailbikes out of this test."

Almost anyone would assume the KTM/Husky would finish at the top, the Yamaha in 2nd was a surprise, although Loic Larrieu just took individual ISDE honors on a "Blue Pig" and is Holcombe's only challenger still in EnduroGP. (Salvini finished 9th on the Beta 430).

Every other bike had "Why it should have won" and "Why it didn't win" except Beta. Kinda odd?

"This suspension would be great in the woods but wasn’t the right setup for this shootout." Not a big surprise here, Beta has had too soft suspension for testers forever. Beta knows their market is Vet's and trail riders. I don't expect any changes unless a new model is released, although a "race edition" would be expected to be race ready.

"The Michelin FIM spec tires are not the best-feeling tires on lean angle, especially the rear tire." Again, wrong setup for a "race" bike.

"We feel like this could be a great West Coast racing machine if it had heavier fork and shock springs along with more low-end snap. Don’t let the ranking fool you, as with only a couple of personal modifications this could be a useful weapon in any off-road condition." Again a truthful statement, and acknowledgment that the foundation is there. In a shootout though, this is a little like kissing your sister.

Beta not being best bottom end or torque feeling is something that needs to be addressed, unacceptable for a brand that prides and tout's itself on these virtues. Honda and Yamaha out "Beta'd" the Beta. Perhaps the '18 dual injectors will make a difference, but I would question a 430 against 450's for a "race edition". There is no replacement for displacement.

The seat height of Beta is the lowest, so is the suspension travel. It is a direct tradeoff that may not be best suited for a "race edition".

Weight: The Beta is 4 lbs more than the Blue and 5 lbs more than the Red with full lighting and Enduro computer. It is time to stop bagging on the Beta's weight, the '18 will be even better, only the KTM/Husky are any better.

Price/Value: The Beta is right in the hunt with the Euro's with more equipment at the same price. Significantly higher than the Japanese bikes, although dropping some of the "enduro" equipment for a "race edition" could help narrow that gap.

I don't think the 6-spd. trans was even brought up? Everyone has e-start and FI now. Oh yeah, ain't she pretty!

 

 

Edited by Johnny Depp
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3 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

You're out of touch.. Salvini is with Beta on a couple seasons now..

..and as far as world enduro championship goes... I don't see where gncc makes any difference.

Look at the dirtrider article .. it says for" someone who might want to do a GP or a GNCC " . .. You're taking your ornery cranky pills again Kran.. Relax it's just an article.

http://enduro21.com/index.php/endurogp/272-salvini-moves-to-beta-for-2016

http://enduro21.com/index.php/40-general/580-my-ride-alex-salvini-beta-430rr

Click standings in far right and GP .. 

http://www.enduro-live.info/

He's fast and doing pretty good too..

http://enduro21.com/index.php/40-general/870-salvini-gets-first-win-of-2016-in-italian-nationals

 

 

 

 

Crap, I am out of touch.....but a GNCC race is FAST and rough, and the Beta's are not as fast as the KTM, Husky, or Yamaha, out of the box.

They are comparing an essentially green sticker BETA (accept for it's red sticker map) to red sticker bikes, but that's all that BETA offers.

Trust me, I get (speed/hills) smoked on my 430RR all the time, but not when I'm riding my FX.....

 

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Yea I don't know.. I like the last 430 race edition I rode . I think it was a 15' . It felt great to me..plenty enough power..It handled great too. All things being equal  I'm a guy who likes big bore  anyway.. If Id get another Beta I'd like a 2015 Beta 500 RS. I'm still sort of shocked you didn't get a big bore Kranny. They are full of power everywhere but still easy to ride. 

I could see myself racing mx with a 430 Beta.. race edition That bike feels great.. It's what I thought of when I did a little test ride of the 430 race 15' . Actually the guy who bought the 430 race I rode had a new tricked out yz450f. He rode the 430 and liked it better.  Now it's his mx bike . That guy is who I'd race against in the master vet class if I was still track riding..I have to keep reminding myself to NOT go race those kinds of races anymore.. but I feel I want to so badly sometimes. I'm on blood thinners and it's not a good idea but sometimes I just get the old race urges!!!

I keep trying to alleviate those urges with hard enduro and tighter trail riding to cut down on high speeds.

Hell I still have and can still race my 525 Beta. That bike is mellow but got plenty enough power too. Easy to ride.Like all Betas it seems.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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Result was as expected, I made the same observations on my -17 RR430 RE. After first run, I swapped my forks to KYB SSS and beefed up the rear shock as well. As a former MXer, Betas are way too soft for my liking in stock even for smaller trails.

I have full FMF system with +200RPM map, but I would love to have more power, I reckon this bike is approx 10rwhp down on power vs. new KTM 450 SX-F.

Salvinis race bike is not stock, what I have heard that it has some headwork, different cams and custom mapping in it. I was watching one GP this summer on site and was standing right next to this bike on service area and you can hear that this bike is not stock. It sounded more snappier and crispier than mine(same FMF exhaust).

Dont get me wrong, Betas are great bikes and I love my both RR300 and RR430, but they could be better at factory..

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4 minutes ago, needforspeed78 said:

Result was as expected, I made the same observations on my -17 RR430 RE. After first run, I swapped my forks to KYB SSS and beefed up the rear shock as well. As a former MXer, Betas are way too soft for my liking in stock even for smaller trails.

I have full FMF system with +200RPM map, but I would love to have more power, I reckon this bike is approx 10rwhp down on power vs. new KTM 450 SX-F.

Salvinis race bike is not stock, what I have heard that it has some headwork, different cams and custom mapping in it. I was watching one GP this summer on site and was standing right next to this bike on service area and you can hear that this bike is not stock. It sounded more snappier and crispier than mine(same FMF exhaust).

Dont get me wrong, Betas are great bikes and I love my both RR300 and RR430, but they could be better at factory..

Yea I think if  power were a possible issue I'd just buy a 480 race edition.

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1 minute ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Yea I think if  power were a possible issue I'd just buy a 480 race edition.

Im sorry, but have you ever ridden RR430 vs RR480 back to back in same conditions?

RR480 does have a more torque, but it does not have much more power on top than RR430. Also its slower revving, I would describe it mellow power delivery. Great for DS but not very good for race pace in the desert. RR430 was the right pick for this comparison.

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19 hours ago, needforspeed78 said:

Im sorry, but have you ever ridden RR430 vs RR480 back to back in same conditions?

RR480 does have a more torque, but it does not have much more power on top than RR430. Also its slower revving, I would describe it mellow power delivery. Great for DS but not very good for race pace in the desert. RR430 was the right pick for this comparison.

No. I'm not a desert rider. I do like more torque and slower reving. I do like mellow power delivery more these days. I like harder hit in the past but not now so much but that's ok. It's more how one likes their bike to run. I don't want an mx bike. So you're telling me a 480 isn't going to move faster than a 430 rr? That's the bottom line right? Of course it is.

Purvines team was racing Betas and won a championship with Burson for 2016 in the desert .. What was he riding 430? 480? The team was riding a variety of Beta 2 and 4 stroke I think What there was Pearson and another rider.. forget who now.. Really for me I'm an ex mx rider but why I like Beta is for woods riding more these days.. but for the desert? I don't know.. It's not what I ride but what do you need that's so special? It's a high speed game so I'm figuring it's an mx bike with a big tank and that's a choice of any brand really.. put an 18" rear tire maybe but it's set up the suspension and gear up.. It doesn't seem like a real difficult recipe. I don't think that Beta might shine more.. or not shine. Beta decided to make their bikes smaller cc's and lessen weight and they figured it would have about the same power and save some weight. When was it that they went from 450 to 430..and from 500 to 480. When was that? 2014? 2015? So to me does it matter so much? maybe.. I wouldn't know. I can haul ass up dirt roads on my 525 70 mph and run out of road fast... I just can't imagine what would be that hard. Bigger bores just straight get up and go quicker and easier...then it's make sure you can brake at the right time because you're just rolling way faster now you have to stop. It doesn't matter that it's quicker revving or not you just up a gear and twist the throttle. I do like that Beta big bores are pretty mellow and have power everywhere. I like this Johnny Aubert vid when he was figuring if he was going to ride a 300 rr or the 480rr.. He ended up coming second in the chamnpionship with his 300 but I almost wanted him to ride the 480 since Holcombe was riding a 300rr.. just to see .. I've always liked the big bore Betas but no one has been riding them in EWC I think since Marko Tarkala. .. 2012? ..but then the 2 stroke Betas came out and then they were showcasing those..

Oh and Beta is the only one with 6 speed right? I'll never buy a 5 speed again.. 6 speed is just way better..

 

 

Aubert was racing the 430 the year before.. but I guess when Salvini went 430  the choice went between the 480 and the 300rr. 

I wish someone would be riding the big bore. The other Beta models seem to be represented and represented well.. Gerston was racing I think a 390 this year in a few races..

Here's less than a year ago.. So purvines went to yamaha.. Betas obviously still work for desert... couldn't find the 390 with gerston fast so just throw this up.. still cool and quick and good vids for some nhh coverage.

 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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Here's a kind of shitty review to me.. I don't agree with alot but enough I guess in relation to this thread.. To me if you want power just get the 480. I don't agree with how the bikes are reviewed at points.. I think a little suspension tuning and the bikes are handling way better than what's described for one.. but that's sort of normal for magazine reviews.. All bikes are going to be a bunch better with good basic setup for the rider..  This is when the bikes are still carbed.. but the power difference I think is described close enough.  ..That's if one thinks a 430 isn't enough power for them.  Not enough power? go up.. too much power ? go down..

 

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I would be blown away if Beta got anything other than last place.  They just don't have the advertising dollars.  Wouldnt matter if they were light years better than the ktm, dirtrider will never rank them higher.  

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