2018 Beta 300RR - Trail trash/roots are brutal

[NEGbrap]

So I purchased a new Beta 300RR recently, and I think the bike handles amazingly well. I just can't seem to figure out the harshness in the stroke when going over roots and trail trash. Played with the clickers and it made no difference. Its brutal in 2nd/3rd gear. I don't think I am gripping to hard, but a certain trail I ride has a 30 foot patch of hard wood roots about 1-3" in diameter, space 4-5" apart and it is brutal on my hands and arms. I am coming off a yz250x and have ridden this trail with that bike with no problems what so ever.

Current settings

• Springs front and rear stock
• Weight 185
• Free sag 615mm
• Static 577mm
• Rider 510mm
• Race sag naked is 105mm
• Forks are 16 out comp and 10 our rebound
• Shock is 15 out on hi/lo and rebound

thanks!

Edited September 14, 2017 by NEGbrap

[Woodsweapon350]

Plain and simple they are going to need a revalve. Clickers on forks don't do nearly as much as most people think. You can try playing with oil heights but the fact is, if you want them to be right they will need to be revalved

[ckny]

Further out on rebound.

Try 12 comp and 12 reb. Go out 2 clicks on rebound if that does not feel good, then another 2. 

The OC forks are not great in the hack and deflect a lot. The CC forks deflect a lot as well. I'm trying to help my buddy with his 17 race edition now that he just dropped $1500 on suspension. Still deflecting. 

They need a good 10 hours of break in. Great bikes but I really don't like the suspension on them, really brings down what is a pretty great package over all. 

[Piney Woods]

3 hours ago, NEGbrap said:

So I purchased a new Beta 300RR recently, and I think the bike handles amazingly well. I just can't seem to figure out the harshness in the stroke when going over roots and trail trash. Played with the clickers and it made no difference. Its brutal in 2nd/3rd gear. I don't think I am gripping to hard, but a certain trail I ride has a 30 foot patch of hard wood roots about 1-3" in diameter, space 4-5" apart and it is brutal on my hands and arms. I am coming off a yz250x and have ridden this trail with that bike with no problems what so ever.

Current settings

• Springs front and rear stock
• Weight 185
• Free sag 615mm
• Static 577mm
• Rider 510mm
• Race sag naked is 105mm
• Forks are 16 out comp and 10 our rebound
• Shock is 15 out on hi/lo and rebound

thanks!

Some of those numbers are very unusual.

[hawaiidirtrider]

On 9/14/2017 at 6:55 AM, NEGbrap said:

So I purchased a new Beta 300RR recently, and I think the bike handles amazingly well. I just can't seem to figure out the harshness in the stroke when going over roots and trail trash. Played with the clickers and it made no difference. Its brutal in 2nd/3rd gear. I don't think I am gripping to hard, but a certain trail I ride has a 30 foot patch of hard wood roots about 1-3" in diameter, space 4-5" apart and it is brutal on my hands and arms. I am coming off a yz250x and have ridden this trail with that bike with no problems what so ever.

Current settings

• Springs front and rear stock
• Weight 185
• Free sag 615mm
• Static 577mm
• Rider 510mm
• Race sag naked is 105mm
• Forks are 16 out comp and 10 our rebound
• Shock is 15 out on hi/lo and rebound

thanks!

First off dump the stock tires. It's a world of difference with better different tires.  You can at least change stock fork oil too . At your weight I don't know if the springs should be different.. maybe a bit stiffer. Start with the tires. It's a huge improvement with those alone. I like a good bigger 90/100-21 up front. Maybe a good golden tyre or shinko or motoz. Behind can be a bunch of different better tires. Just pick.  A revalve can be better I'm sure but I haven't yet and mine is still pretty good.  What you describe riding sounds like what I ride.. Be sure to play with softer tire pressure too. .. You can also read up what is on other threads too. For me I went stiffer than normal . I rode a guys Beta that was sprung for a guy that's 270 lbs. I'm at around 225 to 230 lbs. Anyway I rode it and I liked it so I got the same springs that were the same. It was plush and stable..  I'd say start with tires first. Changing those improve things a lot.

Edited September 19, 2017 by hawaiidirtrider

[suckbangblow]

I have the 2017 Race Edition with the Closed Cartridge and they deflected a lot also. Some places wanted a lot of money to fix them, but I had a LT-Racing on the west coast do them and they don't deflect off anything now.  I know the west coast might be a ways away from you, but LT-Racing does great things with the Sachs suspension.  Check him out, there are a lot of good reviews out there.  

http://www.lt-racing.com/

[hawaiidirtrider]

4 minutes ago, brysonrs said:

I have the 2017 Race Edition with the Closed Cartridge and they deflected a lot also. Some places wanted a lot of money to fix them, but I had a LT-Racing on the west coast do them and they don't deflect off anything now.  I know the west coast might be a ways away from you, but LT-Racing does great things with the Sachs suspension.  Check him out, there are a lot of good reviews out there.  

http://www.lt-racing.com/

I've heard great things for a long time.

[hawaiidirtrider]

I went riding yesterday for a few hours. I'm overdue time wise for a suspension service but it's still not bad for my 300 rr 2015. I'd just put stiffer springs front and back for awhile now. Anyway I just slowed the rebound 2 clicks on the way back and my bike felt way better.  It has been pretty good.. but it's better. Need to spend more time on adjusting but been happy and just riding more I guess. No deflecting. Tire choice and tire pressure is huge too. Here's from yesterday...

 

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by hawaiidirtrider

[MartyMOOSE]

On 15/09/2017 at 0:55 AM, NEGbrap said:

So I purchased a new Beta 300RR recently, and I think the bike handles amazingly well. I just can't seem to figure out the harshness in the stroke when going over roots and trail trash. Played with the clickers and it made no difference. Its brutal in 2nd/3rd gear. I don't think I am gripping to hard, but a certain trail I ride has a 30 foot patch of hard wood roots about 1-3" in diameter, space 4-5" apart and it is brutal on my hands and arms. I am coming off a yz250x and have ridden this trail with that bike with no problems what so ever.

Current settings

• Springs front and rear stock
• Weight 185
• Free sag 615mm
• Static 577mm
• Rider 510mm
• Race sag naked is 105mm
• Forks are 16 out comp and 10 our rebound
• Shock is 15 out on hi/lo and rebound

thanks!

Pull them down and post up the stacks! I've not seen a set yet that don't need a revalve and the preload reduced. If they are like most other years the rebound stack is useless, the base has to much bleed and the mid is soft with too much float. 

 

MM 

[NEGbrap]

3 hours ago, MartyMOOSE said:

Pull them down and post up the stacks! I've not seen a set yet that don't need a revalve and the preload reduced. If they are like most other years the rebound stack is useless, the base has to much bleed and the mid is soft with too much float. 

 

MM 

I've never pulled stacks apart before, so I don't know how comfortable I am with doing that. I have disassembled KYB SSS off my YZ250X but I left the inner cartridge basically alone. Just cleaned the outers, changed the bushings and but them all back together.

Are there any specific tools I need for that?

[NEGbrap]

So far I have called Stillwell and Kreft. I tried getting hold of Endurospec but couldn't reach anyone, but I have heard great things about the MX Tech Lucky cartridges for the sachs but its 900 just for the fork. LTracing just emailed me and was the least expensive of all but was just talking about forks. I want to call him and get some more info on a revalve front and rear and springs front and rear as a package.

I am going to try to play with the settings again, and see if I can get a better sag number. I am just hesitant about sending suspension off to the west coast. If I am not impressed with the setup its a damn long way to send it back and forth....... ugh jeezzzz. Can't they just mail me a suspension guy to go to the track with and make all the adjustments?

[MartyMOOSE]

Another in the US is Afterhours cycles he's a Beta fanatic. http://www.afterhourscycle.com/ 

 

MM 

[hawaiidirtrider]

On 9/14/2017 at 6:55 AM, NEGbrap said:

So I purchased a new Beta 300RR recently, and I think the bike handles amazingly well. I just can't seem to figure out the harshness in the stroke when going over roots and trail trash. Played with the clickers and it made no difference. Its brutal in 2nd/3rd gear. I don't think I am gripping to hard, but a certain trail I ride has a 30 foot patch of hard wood roots about 1-3" in diameter, space 4-5" apart and it is brutal on my hands and arms. I am coming off a yz250x and have ridden this trail with that bike with no problems what so ever.

Current settings

• Springs front and rear stock
• Weight 185
• Free sag 615mm
• Static 577mm
• Rider 510mm
• Race sag naked is 105mm
• Forks are 16 out comp and 10 our rebound
• Shock is 15 out on hi/lo and rebound

thanks!

So have you put a google search on beta 300 suspension tuning or whatever etc yet? That's a good place to start... just look at what has already been said so far.

[hawaiidirtrider]

Oh and I'm serious take off those shitty stock tires. You can always sell em cheap to partially pay for decent new rubber. It's night and day better for me at least. It was like I was riding on ball bearings on the stockers and good new rubber it was sticking and smooth.

[weantright]

On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 0:55 PM, NEGbrap said:

So I purchased a new Beta 300RR recently, and I think the bike handles amazingly well. I just can't seem to figure out the harshness in the stroke when going over roots and trail trash. Played with the clickers and it made no difference. Its brutal in 2nd/3rd gear. I don't think I am gripping to hard, but a certain trail I ride has a 30 foot patch of hard wood roots about 1-3" in diameter, space 4-5" apart and it is brutal on my hands and arms. I am coming off a yz250x and have ridden this trail with that bike with no problems what so ever.

Current settings

• Springs front and rear stock
• Weight 185
• Free sag 615mm
• Static 577mm
• Rider 510mm
• Race sag naked is 105mm
• Forks are 16 out comp and 10 our rebound
• Shock is 15 out on hi/lo and rebound

thanks!

Your sag is off and will add to the harshness. If 105mm naked then it's 110mm depending on backpack/tools and should be 100+/-5mm ready to ride. You are on the edge of the stock fork springs. I bet you will go up one rate and reduce the preload to near nothing.

On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 10:16 AM, NEGbrap said:

So far I have called Stillwell and Kreft. I tried getting hold of Endurospec but couldn't reach anyone, but I have heard great things about the MX Tech Lucky cartridges for the sachs but its 900 just for the fork. LTracing just emailed me and was the least expensive of all but was just talking about forks. I want to call him and get some more info on a revalve front and rear and springs front and rear as a package.

I am going to try to play with the settings again, and see if I can get a better sag number. I am just hesitant about sending suspension off to the west coast. If I am not impressed with the setup its a damn long way to send it back and forth....... ugh jeezzzz. Can't they just mail me a suspension guy to go to the track with and make all the adjustments?

MX cartridges are a OC system with better set-up. It's an upgrade but not for the $$ when your adding little other then set-up. If going this route then look into Dal Soggio as these are CC, high end coatings and quality internals. Otherwise just get a revalve.

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 8:15 AM, MartyMOOSE said:

Another in the US is Afterhours cycles he's a Beta fanatic. http://www.afterhourscycle.com/ 

 

MM 

This is where I would send them. Good feedback and closer then the west coast.

[NEGbrap]

1 minute ago, weantright said:

Your sag is off and will add to the harshness. If 105mm naked then it's 110mm depending on backpack/tools and should be 100+/-5mm ready to ride. You are on the edge of the stock fork springs. I bet you will go up one rate and reduce the preload to near nothing.

MX cartridges are a OC system with better set-up. It's an upgrade but not for the $$ when your adding little other then set-up. If going this route then look into Dal Soggio as these are CC, high end coatings and quality internals. Otherwise just get a revalve.

This is where I would send them. Good feedback and closer then the west coast.

Thanks,

Everyone so far has said 110 is too much, but Stillwell specifically said that 110 is what they run on all there Beta's so I figured 105 naked and about 110 with gear. I will try adjusting the sag to 100+/- so its 105 +/- this and trying. I'm burning off my "office softness" so I should be riding at about 165-170 next year and much much fitter. So unless I get some crazy revalve that needs nutso springs I should be good on the stockers.

Good comments on the cartridges. I looked at the Dal Soggio, but had a hard time finding a good write up or article on them. Can you point me in the right direction? Im not opposed to spending upwards of 1500 on my suspension, but it just feels shitty to buy this bike at about 9k and have to drop another 1500 to get it ride well. My YZ250X SSS was pretty much perfect out of the box, sans new springs which only cost me a little over 300.

I will call afterhousecycle and get some input. 

[suckbangblow]

Thanks,

Everyone so far has said 110 is too much, but Stillwell specifically said that 110 is what they run on all there Beta's so I figured 105 naked and about 110 with gear. I will try adjusting the sag to 100+/- so its 105 +/- this and trying. I'm burning off my "office softness" so I should be riding at about 165-170 next year and much much fitter. So unless I get some crazy revalve that needs nutso springs I should be good on the stockers.
Good comments on the cartridges. I looked at the Dal Soggio, but had a hard time finding a good write up or article on them. Can you point me in the right direction? Im not opposed to spending upwards of 1500 on my suspension, but it just feels shitty to buy this bike at about 9k and have to drop another 1500 to get it ride well. My YZ250X SSS was pretty much perfect out of the box, sans new springs which only cost me a little over 300.
I will call afterhousecycle and get some input. 

Revalve and springs front and rear cost me about 6-700 through LT-Racing. You don't need to spend in the 1000s even kreft moto isn't that expensive.

[weantright]

5 minutes ago, NEGbrap said:

Thanks,

Everyone so far has said 110 is too much, but Stillwell specifically said that 110 is what they run on all there Beta's so I figured 105 naked and about 110 with gear. I will try adjusting the sag to 100+/- so its 105 +/- this and trying. I'm burning off my "office softness" so I should be riding at about 165-170 next year and much much fitter. So unless I get some crazy revalve that needs nutso springs I should be good on the stockers.

Good comments on the cartridges. I looked at the Dal Soggio, but had a hard time finding a good write up or article on them. Can you point me in the right direction? Im not opposed to spending upwards of 1500 on my suspension, but it just feels shitty to buy this bike at about 9k and have to drop another 1500 to get it ride well. My YZ250X SSS was pretty much perfect out of the box, sans new springs which only cost me a little over 300.

I will call afterhousecycle and get some input. 

I have been running Dal Soggio inserts for some time now. They were bought and set-up thru ProTune out of Ohio. My set-up is firmer then the OC's that were removed. However when speed rises these forks really work and that's coming from a revalved OC set-up that work well. Nice thing about CC forks is under the right tuner you can have plushness and maintain control at speeds. Also you can take these cartridges from bike to bike with little or not extra parts. No need to spend the $$ on these major upgrades but a revalve is a must.

KYB's are the top dog in forks. I have SSS on our XT and works really well. Again set-up from ProTune.

7 minutes ago, brysonrs said:

Revalve and springs front and rear cost me about 6-700 through LT-Racing. You don't need to spend in the 1000s even kreft moto isn't that expensive.

$1000 on a revalve is a poor use of the $$. $1000 on a new fork, for many well worth it. My opinion is $$ spent on set-up and suspension will pay dividends for everyone no matter the experience level. Sure faster rider will benefit more, slower rider gain confidence faster.

[MartyMOOSE]

110 is way to much remember Beta have less wheel travel than most. Try 96-97mm 30-35 static this stillwell idea of 110 is wrong unless they have added a bit  of ride height. 

 

[NEGbrap]

Thanks for the input everyone. I will try new sag settings and report back, as well as reach out to afterhourscycle as it is much closer than the west coast shops. In a previous life I was in sales and know how some people can lube the rails on products that may not be that great. That's why I'm hesitant with a shop I can't walk into and talk to the owner face to face.