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Making KTM 300xc cockpit feel like a YZ 125

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So my I have a 2006 ktm 300 xc and a 2002 yz 125. I really like the way the yz handles/feels when your riding it. My ktm tends to slide out on corners where my yz does just fine. Also the handlebar position on the yz feels better. The yz suspension feels really soft and nice. The ktm suspension not so much. It bucks when you pop over a log. But it is mainly corners and turning that is frustrating with the ktm. Also I can do really slow/controlled turns while standing up just putting around in a field with the yz. The ktm is a lot harder to do that with. I dont know if its the angle of the steering on the ktm or what.

Any tips/comments?

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Is you yz or ktm re sprung? The ktm is gonna have a stiffer setup prob cause of the weight of the bike. Try different clicker afjustments. 

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I used to have a yz250 in the stable with my 300.  I had the yz250  first and then tried my best to get the KTM to feel more like the yz.  The best advice I can give to you is to stop comparing them.

The entire riding position is different.   On the KTM you sit up higher and seem to lean forward a bit.  The yz's feel more neutral.   The Ktm will probably feel better when you are standing.    Those weird handlebars on the KTM are perfect for the ktm riding position.   I tried yz bars on mine and it was awful.

the 300 has significantly more power.   You gotta get used to it. It takes a different approach to control it.

Again, stop comparing them.  If you need to adjust the KTM suspension, then just do it.

Maurice

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10 hours ago, dnovack said:

Is you yz or ktm re sprung? The ktm is gonna have a stiffer setup prob cause of the weight of the bike. Try different clicker afjustments. 

Not sure if either are re sprung. 125 suspension is plush though. Clickers are all the way soft. Guess this means I need softer springs.

1 hour ago, Just_a_trail_rider said:

I used to have a yz250 in the stable with my 300.  I had the yz250  first and then tried my best to get the KTM to feel more like the yz.  The best advice I can give to you is to stop comparing them.

The entire riding position is different.   On the KTM you sit up higher and seem to lean forward a bit.  The yz's feel more neutral.   The Ktm will probably feel better when you are standing.    Those weird handlebars on the KTM are perfect for the ktm riding position.   I tried yz bars on mine and it was awful.

the 300 has significantly more power.   You gotta get used to it. It takes a different approach to control it.

Again, stop comparing them.  If you need to adjust the KTM suspension, then just do it.

Maurice

Yes riding position is for sure different. Ill bet if I dropped $ on new springs for the ktm it would make a big difference...

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16 hours ago, kylechandler1300 said:

Not sure if either are re sprung. 125 suspension is plush though. Clickers are all the way soft. Guess this means I need softer springs.

Yes riding position is for sure different. Ill bet if I dropped $ on new springs for the ktm it would make a big difference...

Yes, it would make a big difference on the KTM.  That bike MUST have the correct spring in the rear with the sag set correctly.     The YZ definitely have more front weight bias. You can feel the front wheel glued to the ground and you can use that to get great feel in the turns.  The KTM, in my opinion, feels vague on the front end compared to the yz's.   Its not that it doesn't turn, it just turns differently.  If that spring is too soft in the rear and the preload is not set right, then you would have even less weight on the front wheel, would drift in the turns and it could feel heavier compared to the yz's.  

In my opinion, KTM's always feel less top heavy than the yz's (not a knock on the yz's which I think are great).     Just my opinion.

 

Your setup is off and you are completely on the right track.   You may have to go further, but start with the spring in the rear for sure.   

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Sag, sag, sag.......KTM's must have the sag set correctly or they feel off more than other bikes. Do that first ( may require different springs) and then see. It may be that the YZ just by luck was already set by previous owner who was very close to your weight, and the previous KTM owner was way different weight than you.

 

Joe

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10 hours ago, Just_a_trail_rider said:

Yes, it would make a big difference on the KTM.  That bike MUST have the correct spring in the rear with the sag set correctly.     The YZ definitely have more front weight bias. You can feel the front wheel glued to the ground and you can use that to get great feel in the turns.  The KTM, in my opinion, feels vague on the front end compared to the yz's.   Its not that it doesn't turn, it just turns differently.  If that spring is too soft in the rear and the preload is not set right, then you would have even less weight on the front wheel, would drift in the turns and it could feel heavier compared to the yz's.  

In my opinion, KTM's always feel less top heavy than the yz's (not a knock on the yz's which I think are great).     Just my opinion.

 

Your setup is off and you are completely on the right track.   You may have to go further, but start with the spring in the rear for sure.   

9 hours ago, trailmeisterjoe said:

Sag, sag, sag.......KTM's must have the sag set correctly or they feel off more than other bikes. Do that first ( may require different springs) and then see. It may be that the YZ just by luck was already set by previous owner who was very close to your weight, and the previous KTM owner was way different weight than you.

 

Joe

Ok. Static and race sag is set correctly per enduro engineerings website instructions. I noticed something while riding both today. Going slow in a straight line it takes a lot more effort to physically turn the handlebars left or right on the ktm. I am able to turn the yz handlebars full lock either way with very little effort. Steering inputs for the ktm feel slow. Maybe thats just how they are. 

 

9 hours ago, Sir falls alot said:

Raise the front forks 4mm to the second line. Will help with sharper turns.

Did this today. Think it helped a bit.

 

 

Thanks guys for helping me get my setup dialed in.

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Did this today. Think it helped a bit.



 



 



Thanks guys for helping me get my setup dialed in.

I also did a cdi box relocation under the gas tank. If you leave it on the side of the frame up front you cannot steer as far left.
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I also did a cdi box relocation under the gas tank. If you leave it on the side of the frame up front you cannot steer as far left.

IMG_1188.jpgyou can see the cdi box its no longer on the frame. It nicely tucked in the "v" part of the frame under the gas tankIMG_1188.jpg
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4 hours ago, kylechandler1300 said:

Ok. Static and race sag is set correctly per enduro engineerings website instructions. I noticed something while riding both today. Going slow in a straight line it takes a lot more effort to physically turn the handlebars left or right on the ktm. I am able to turn the yz handlebars full lock either way with very little effort. Steering inputs for the ktm feel slow. Maybe thats just how they are. 

That's not how the KTM is.  The handles bars should move from side to side easily.   Do you feel this is the same if you put the bikes on a stand with the front tire off the ground?

Are your bearings OK in the steering stem?     Maybe time to replace or service them. 

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Its amazing on how much that suspension plays a role in everything. Might want to even try servicing both forks and shocks. Maybe even run a slightly lighter oil.  

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On 9/19/2017 at 6:20 PM, kylechandler1300 said:

Mainly the front. Ktm feels "slow" in the front and feels more top heavy.

The big bike is never going to feel as nimble as a 125.  I just got into the 200 game and love the way it feels compared to my 250.

There are some good pointers in this thread though, I may have to do some tweaking.

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4 hours ago, dnovack said:

Its amazing on how much that suspension plays a role in everything. Might want to even try servicing both forks and shocks. Maybe even run a slightly lighter oil.  

Even clicker settings make a huge difference to front end feel to me. I've found 4 turns either way from where I like them really upsets my applecart.

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I have two YZs and an 09 KTM 250sx set up for woods.  My KTM turns well.  Not quite as good as the YZs, but good enough.  Here is what I have found that works for me:

1. Raise forks in clamps, and set sag on the short side of the specified range. I also have my stock style bars fairly forward.  This helps with turning in the woods, but it also makes the bike unstable at higher speeds.  I never could find a satisfactory compromise between stability and turning to match my J bikes, despite spending considerable time and money with suspension tuners.  Ultimately the problem was solved by setting up the bike to turn, and using a Scotts stabilizer to keep things under control at speed.

2. Front tire choice is really important on my KTM!  The M 51 works in my conditions, but your conditions may be different. 

3. I think it also helps to keep the chain adjusters rotated to the short wheelbase setting.  

 

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