OZ DRZ

2018 BETA THUMPERS REVIEW: RR350 RR390 RR430 & RR480

179 posts in this topic

54 minutes ago, firffighter said:

, "discussions on dirt bike sites are usually infantile". :smashpc:

Are not !!!!!

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7 minutes ago, YHGEORGE said:

agnosium???  Is this a test?

Were you an English teacher or proof read for a publisher?  Maybe you're an agnostic?

Ad nauseam 

I hate this new phone! :facepalm:

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Posted (edited)

On 10/5/2017 at 6:24 AM, firffighter said:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01ERIFR3K/ref=psdcmw_318336011_t3_B01KF1P1WU

If it's a worry,  carry something like this for cheap insurance.  

Did you actually try it? You should as the last 2 I had didn’t start my bike or van like it says it’s supposed to. You don’t want to find out in the mountains.  Better check just in case..Also you have to keep that charged...so that’s another level of maintenance that I’d rather not be dealing with. .. and you have to carry that now in your pack. I already have way too much in my backpack. I’m going to have to go through it again and purge more because it’s too heavy. If there’s a kicker on the bike all of that goes away and it’s more reliable. The portable charger I have now is around mainly for charging my phone and it’s in my cars plugged in . I don’t have faith in them for charging cars or van , bikes though. Not with the couple different brands I’ve tried. I was happy that my van battery died in my parking space. I thought it would be cool to use my new toy to start my van with.. It didn't work.. so I yanked the battery and put it on the home charger I had. It's a good thing it died at home otherwise it would be a triple A call.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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1 hour ago, MartyMOOSE said:

Bump started my 350 several times, small down hill is all thats needed. 

Ah so you need a little down hill. So find a little hill and push up first if on the bottom. 

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1 hour ago, Goatse said:

 

I think you misinterpreted my statement Goat.We are saying the same thing except,  I also  stated that the benefits of the lighter internals of the small bore will be negated if you have to rev it much higher to do the same work.In other words, All things being equal in the overall bike weight dept.It may take more effort to ride a heavier lesser powered bike quickly than using a more powerful bike to do the same task. Hope this makes sense.


Wat? You've got that backwards. The gyroscopic force increases the higher you rev it. So the higher you rev it, the 'heavier' the bike will handle.

 

 

 

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On 10/5/2017 at 10:21 AM, TwinSparXR said:

For what it’s worth. I have a 2015 350rr. I bought it new in October 2014. First year and model Beta put FI on. I have never once used the kick starter. That doesn’t mean I’m going to remove it though. I also have understood since the first day of having it if the battery is completely dead it will not run. Regardless of it having a backup kick start.
I have used the kicker on my 15 500rs just to see how it is.

As for the original subject. I am expecting delivery of a 390rr-s in the next week or so. I’m really looking forward to getting it and thanks for posting this video.

When you do get your 390 I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on the comparison between that and your 15 500rs for both on and off-road?  I currently have a 500rs and am 90% sure I am going to sell it and buy a 390.  The 350 is holding out for the last 10%.  I see you have one of those as well, albeit a '15 so not street legal.  Would be curious of your take on the 350 on road capabilities as well?  Thank you sir.

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 I think you misinterpreted my statement Goat.We are saying the same thing except,  I also  stated that the benefits of the lighter internals of the small bore will be negated if you have to rev it much higher to do the same work.In other words, All things being equal in the overall bike weight dept.It may take more effort to ride a heavier lesser powered bike quickly than using a more powerful bike to do the same task. Hope this makes sense.


Now I'm picking up what you're putting down.

I completely agree with the theory behind your point, but real world has always shown me otherwise. I think the gyroscopic force is quite a bit more than most of us (even the ones who actually know what it is) even realize.

For example. I have a YZ250FX and had YZ450F. The 450 off the floor was lighter, 'and' on top of that my FX had an aluminum skid plate, rad guards, bark busters, rotor guards, etc. Fully bush guarded up. Yet that bike 'still' felt lighter than the 450 unless I was putting it on a stand. Static weight the 450 was very noticeably lighter, but as soon as they were running, the 450 always felt and handled heavier.

Sure it's not apples to apples to the topic at hand, but I think it's a pretty good indicator on how much a few extra ounces of metal make once you're spinning them up.

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I guess nothings changed on this gyroscopic effect topic.. It still is  a subject of debate and interpretation. Whatever. It's ride it and decide what one likes.. but I always sort of didn't get the hoopla of why a 350 would be better than a 400 or 450 or 500 .. 525 or whatever in 2011 and 12 when the Beta 350 rr's first came out and this topic was common..It's the balance between a 250f and a 450f.. ok.... It's a little different but honestly I'm leaning toward a 450 ish level as the better level ..for me anyway. This is especially when Beta enduros are really so "rideable" for a description of them.    I think that's also why I bought a 350 rr because I just didn't wrap my head around it. My 525 is so mellow and has power all over and is fast and easy easy easy to ride. So when I got my 350 well it's good .. it's ok.. but it's also just how you ride it. You have to wind that puppy up more and it just doesn't have the low end that the bigger bores do..It has good low end.. but it is a 350.. not a 450 or 500... and it's just easy to go to that lugging sweet spot and short shift yourself through flowing trails and be hauling ass without working very hard at all on the big bores.. it's a little more work to me to do that on a 350 .  The 350 is good too and it is fast but the power is spread different. It's fast and great but honestly I think I'd like a 430 or 450 better. I didn't ride the 3rd gen all Beta big bores to any extent but I do have a 525 Beta. I know that power and it's super easy to ride. As it is now I have a tricked out fully set up and recently fully gone through 350 rr race edition.  I like the bike alot but I think it would be best if I were riding it more for hare scrambles or maybe some mx if I was inclined. It's good for trail too.. but not as good as my 300rr. For a 4 stroke 350 has less grunt of course compared to my 525 so I can't be lazy riding it . With my 525 I can screw up on a hill and let off and get back on it and have lots of power yet to help me recover from me screwing up being out of shape. That's not as easy on a 350.. It's still good.. but all things being equal.. I still don't get the gyro effect thing. I notice the difference but it's not like the 350 feels like it's any advantage.. I figure if I wasn in open hare scrambles more or mx then being on the gas might be better for some:excuseme: .. I used to race big bore huskies in the 80's and earlier so it really makes no perceived difference that is an advantage to me from what I can tell. So you get a bigger bore bike with lots of power and just ride a gear higher and let the bike do the work.. you just point it where you want.. No especial need to wind it out.. You're flying and can be above idle backing off and be at mach speeds looking at the turn coming up fast.  I don't know.. I still favor the bigger bore 4 stroke if I have to make a choice. Maybe if I ride my 350 a whole lot more I might change my mind about it some as I learn how to ride it better.

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I totally get what your saying about the perception aspect between the two bikes but what is even more telling is the stopwatch.That perception is even more acute when you don't regularly ride the bikes,Ill say back to back for lack of a better word.Just for fun I would ride my 570 one day and my 300 two stroke the next and so on till I could jump back and forth and immediately feel comfortable on either.The 300 obviously felt lighter as it was by 30 lbs but what was really surprising is at the end of the ride I would feel pretty much the same from a fatigue standpoint.They both had their strong and weak points which just required a different approach to exploit to the max.One thing about jumping on a 300 after a 570.It feels like there is a stick in the brake holding it back and the two stroke power feels in no way intimidating.

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what is even more telling is the stopwatch.


Which is exactly why I have the RR (2 stroke). Even though I enjoy riding the FX a bit more (it still might be a comfort thing), I'm faster in any sort of tight terrain or any of the local race loops. So I guess it depends what somebody is looking for in a bike. Fun, race results, or maybe a compromise of both.
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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, widebear said:

I totally get what your saying about the perception aspect between the two bikes but what is even more telling is the stopwatch.That perception is even more acute when you don't regularly ride the bikes,Ill say back to back for lack of a better word.Just for fun I would ride my 570 one day and my 300 two stroke the next and so on till I could jump back and forth and immediately feel comfortable on either.The 300 obviously felt lighter as it was by 30 lbs but what was really surprising is at the end of the ride I would feel pretty much the same from a fatigue standpoint.They both had their strong and weak points which just required a different approach to exploit to the max.One thing about jumping on a 300 after a 570.It feels like there is a stick in the brake holding it back and the two stroke power feels in no way intimidating.

The stopwatch sort of is unreliable too.  I don’t know about you guys but sometimes I feel like riding a 4 stroke and you feel better and just sort of flow and ride better sometimes.  The same goes with a 2 stroke . I think I’m sort of faster depending on the course  .. but even then it sort of just depends on the day sometimes. When it’s gnarly  well the 2 stroke wins right off the bat. .. usually. Torque starts lower and better off idle and the bike is lighter. 4 strokes work great too.. It’s the quality of the power.. still I’m still leaning to bigger bore 4 strokes with all things being equal.. well around 450 or bigger. That’s just my personal preference so far. I think everyone just likes what they like though. Some just rather have a 350 over a 500 for ex. Everyone’s different.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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Posted (edited)

I find the big 280 pound 570 with its supposed 63 hp requires a more deliberate, isometric riding style whereas the smaller 300 and even my 350 can and often demand to be ridden in a looser more aggressive manner in order to go equally fast. As far as scary descents I'll take the heavier more planted feel of the big bikes every time. Prob why I never took a shine to downhill mb's even though thats gonna change as I start crossing over into trials to round off my skillsets.

Edited by widebear
clarity
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17 hours ago, firffighter said:

Were you an English teacher or proof read for a publisher?  Maybe you're an agnostic?

Ad nauseam 

I hate this new phone! :facepalm:

Understood, just having fun. Have seen enough of your posts to know you are one of the good guys with a mature take on this stuff. Also jealous of your riding area. Enjoy that 390.

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8 minutes ago, YHGEORGE said:

Understood, just having fun. Have seen enough of your posts to know you are one of the good guys with a mature take on this stuff. Also jealous of your riding area. Enjoy that 390.

Haha, "mature" in age, yes, in behavior.... I'm  more infantile :cool:

Yes, we get to enjoy some fantastic riding here and the 390 puts a big smile on my face! 

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I almost pulled the trigger on a 390RR-S recently, but decided it probably wasn't going to be exactly what I wanted. It would've been the perfect 4 stroke for my local trails, but I still have the 300 for that. Whatever dualsport I get is hopefully going to be my desert bike as well...really want a 430, but wouldn't pass up any low-hour Beta for the right price. I even have an extra set of Race edition forks that will go on whatever I get.

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7 hours ago, widebear said:

I find the big 280 pound 570 with its supposed 63 hp requires a more deliberate, isometric riding style whereas the smaller 300 and even my 350 can and often demand to be ridden in a looser more aggressive manner in order to go equally fast. As far as scary descents I'll take the heavier more planted feel of the big bikes every time. Prob why I never took a shine to downhill mb's even though thats gonna change as I start crossing over into trials to round off my skillsets.

I’m not into mountain bikes as much or trials. I know that’s a good cross train. I just think just more riding is straight better. Here I’m saying that but I’m going to the pool later. My back is still out so no riding anyway.

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On 10/7/2017 at 2:56 PM, hawaiidirtrider said:

I guess nothings changed on this gyroscopic effect topic.. It still is  a subject of debate and interpretation. Whatever. It's ride it and decide what one likes.. but I always sort of didn't get the hoopla of why a 350 would be better than a 400 or 450 or 500 ...

i must admit i barely notice the difference between the bikes but i've spoken to top riders who say they can really notice the difference in reciprocating mass. personally for most of us i think it probably has more to do with we everyday riders often ride better and faster on lower powered bikes because we simply lack the skills to make the most of the bigger bore machines. and i especially fit that category lol!

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with the whole debate about dirt bikes gradually losing their kickstarts, i'm not too worried about this. there are various techniques that will get a bike going easily again, and i suspect in most cases it's really only serious competitors who probably need to order the kickstart kit for this new breed of dirt bikes. keen to hear other's opinions though on this video....

 

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Yeah...no.
The starter on my Beta has been flawless but I still want a kick start for backup. Especially since I ride alone most of the time and I use a Rekluse. Walking in MC boots sucks.

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