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Bike Weight Overrated?

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Ask any pro if they think weight matters. Their bikes often barely meet minimal weight rules due to lightening. 

Edited by seer
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22 minutes ago, Wiz636 said:

So are you saying that Yamaha is incapable of making a lighter bike, else they would?

No, they already make lighter bikes for their team. Of course they can make lighter bikes, just not at the retail price/profit margin that they feel they need to hit. Money is an object for retail consumer bikes and even for the factory teams but to much less degree. Everything trickles down from the factory level racers. It is where they learn how to make things lighter, more durable, cheaper, etc. Weight means different things to different people, I get it. Not everyone rides the same terrain, for the same reasons, and are motivated differently, I understand but to think that weight doesn't matter is really not an accurate statement in my opinion. If the bikes you are looking at buying both get good reviews from people that you are riding with or read about, they are both close in price and durability are you going to buy the 20lb heavier bike?

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12 hours ago, LSHD said:

 

It appears that English prose and metaphor is a problem for you. :thumbsup:

 

I guess so.................. :smirk:

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12 hours ago, DEMI said:

Care to right it for the dolts here?

My prose is the product of personal tutelage from a Cambridge Literature student. :p

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7 hours ago, theBIGnaud said:

What about rotating mass and gyroscopic effect?

Apparently when you have a masters degree, it doesn't apply to you. :prof:

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My buddy's 12 530EXC with extra sprockets, and an exhaust tip was north of 10 grand otd w/tax. then CO charged him 300 bucks for the registration, and he realized he needed a fan and a jet kit. That is a lot of money for (advertised) 2lbs lighter and an extra gear. I almost bought a 2012 CRF450X at the same time- it would have been 7850.00 OTD no sprockets needed, but I would have had to spend appx 500 bucks to plate it. The KTM is nicer with lots of nice parts included but 2 grand nicer?

I guess if you got the dough to drop 10grand on a dirtbike 2grand is not that big a deal.

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3 hours ago, seer said:

Ask any pro if they think weight matters. Their bikes often barely meet minimal weight rules due to lightening. 

There are minimum weight requirements for Hare Scrambles / GNCC stuff?

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I've owned a bunch of open class bikes including British 500 singles, a bunch of 250s including the heavy XRs, and lighter bikes including 2 Trials bikes. My observation is heavy bikes tends to keep going straight after hitting trail debris (good), but they are more difficult to change direction (Bad). And then there is suspension.
So is a desert sled the bike you need for your riding terrain or a 150lb Trials bike?
I have a friend who often brings his Trials bike on rides and it does get thru the gnarly ST with ease. It also does well on open trails because it is so maneuverable and can dodge trail debris.  But IMO not good for long trail rides.


If you ride solo weight can be an issue, I've been in situations where I was trapped under the bike on a hill side and couldn't get leverage to lift it off me.   So ride with friends who can help lift a heavy bike.

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3 hours ago, Bermudacat said:

To quote columnist Dan Savage, "I'd rather be mean than stupid." :busted:

Seams like your have both of them covered.

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Well for an old man of 57, my XR600 and DRZ400 do  me well. Besides at 5-8/215,  I won't win any races but do like the power to get up those tough hills at Stoddard (So Cal Desert). Besides the heavy bikes are an inncentive to stay in the gym, haha. Tight single track is challenging, but overall trail riding and hill climbing are a hoot. Did jump on a CRF last trip and admit it was fun. Stay safe! 

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9 hours ago, Bermudacat said:

Apparently when you have a masters degree, it doesn't apply to you. :prof:

Exactly. Once you are a member of the club you can defy matter, space, and time, or at least understand it. :thumbsup:

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8 hours ago, Oregon Comrade said:

There are minimum weight requirements for Hare Scrambles / GNCC stuff?

No but not everyone posting here is offroad riders. Ask the off-road pros too though. They lighten the bikes some. Tell them adding 20lbs to their bikes wont change anything. 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Wiz636 said:

While there are clearly situations where a lighter bike would be better, I don't think it matters nearly as much or as often, as many think. In fact, as often as a lighter bike is advantageous, there are just many situations where a heavier bike is advantageous.

When I'm moving at high speed over rough terrain I'll take the added stability provided by a heavier bike. A heavier bike is less likely to get kicked around by the terrain and suffers less deflection than a light bike.

Yamaha is fully capable of building a bike that is as light as the KTMs, but they choose not to. Ever wonder why?

 

12 hours ago, Wiz636 said:

So are you saying that Yamaha is incapable of making a lighter bike, else they would?

Sorry bud but you are off base here. Ever read MXA magazine? Almost every bike test they talk about how the Japanese brands are scrambling to catch up with KTM's weight savings over the past year. Yamaha in theory could make a bike that weighs less, but the budget doesn't allow. If you honestly think they kept it heavy on purpose then you are fooling yourself. You think Suzuki was happy to release a new RMZ after 10 years, have no e-start and still be the same weight? I can't imagine that was on purpose, so the bike 'gets kicked around less'. More like, the budget doesn't allow a brand new motor to shave dead weight. So what you got was essentially the same motor castings with some updates.

Not saying weight is the be all end all, but it is an advantage and it does matter. How important that factor is, is up to the rider. But to think these brands are purposely building a bike that weighs 20lbs more than the competition is just foolish.

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11 minutes ago, ah665 said:

 

Sorry bud but you are off base here. Ever read MXA magazine? Almost every bike test they talk about how the Japanese brands are scrambling to catch up with KTM's weight savings over the past year. Yamaha in theory could make a bike that weighs less, but the budget doesn't allow. If you honestly think they kept it heavy on purpose then you are fooling yourself. You think Suzuki was happy to release a new RMZ after 10 years, have no e-start and still be the same weight? I can't imagine that was on purpose, so the bike 'gets kicked around less'. More like, the budget doesn't allow a brand new motor to shave dead weight. So what you got was essentially the same motor castings with some updates.

Not saying weight is the be all end all, but it is an advantage and it does matter. How important that factor is, is up to the rider. But to think these brands are purposely building a bike that weighs 20lbs more than the competition is just foolish.

Proof you get more metal for your cash with a zook??

 

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a light bike is absolutely noticeable

5lbs on a bmx bike is huge

actually 1lb on a bmx bike is noticeable

8 ounces on the wheels is way noticeable and makes a bigger difference that 2lbs on the frame when your hucking 360s and 540s

a lb or 2 is way noticeable on a mtb

on a motorcycle you probably need to take 5lbs from somewhere up high to notice it

do you notice how your bike handles brimming with gas vs empty? I DO!

ride a CRF450x and a CRF450R back to back, when they shared alot of stuff like 05, the 450r can change from fully laid over right to fully laid over left much more easily.

Now wheel weight!

on a motorcycle is crazy.

When I bought my supermoto bike it had ALPINA STS wheels on it, spoke wheels with o rings so you don't run tubes,  I test rode it like that, but he wanted 1500 more for the bike with those wheels, which i wasn't keen on spending at the time, boy was there a difference between the light wheels and stock wheels, the way it accelerated, braked and turned.  Wish I would have scooped those bad boys up when I had the chance.

where the weight is situated is really key tho, the difference between a 220lb bike and a 240lb bike probably isn't huge if that 20lbs was in the skidplate, but if it was in the tank, the 240lb bike would ride like shit.  Just put a huge desert tank on and one of those ugly front number plate tanks on fill them up till they spill over and see for yourself if you don't believe me.

this is why people like how 2 strokes feel, alot of times they are not that much lighter, but the engine is lower, and shorter (not having the camshaft(s) up there twirling away) up atop the engine. resulting in a lower center of gravity and better feel.

Edited by EnglertRacing
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13 hours ago, Oregon Comrade said:

That kind of proves the point...how important is weight really?  Manuf lie, stretch the truth, call it how you see it to sell bikes, us common folk put A LOT of weight (no pun intended) on the weight.  The fact is they weigh what they need to.  The YZ450X is an example, 25 lbs heavier then a comparable KTM, gets rated very closely and gets rave reviews.  

"How important is weight really?" Check out the video clips section on ktmtalk.com and look at a recent Colorado Rocky Singletrack video and let me know if you think they want bikes that are 20lbs heavier? I know not everyone rides like this but certainly most people will never complain about riding a lighter bike.

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