Doogster85

Sachs Forks

17 posts in this topic

Finally getting some time to mess with my front forks, it's been a busy year, so I've been pretty much just been racing, cleaning and parking it. I've been complaining of stiff forks all year long, even with the compression backed off quite a bit.

 

So anyways, got my wife out to check preload on the forks. My free sag was meh at 38mm, Little high but not terrible. I checked my race sag however and I'm at a terrible 60mm. I know there's no external adjustment, so I'm planning on pulling the preload spacers and cutting them down a bit to get me through the last 3 races of the year. However, I'm not quite sure what's a solid number to aim for on the forks. I'm a converted street guy so the numbers I know are way different. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Dusty 

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You need stiffer springs, not more preload......... more preload will make the fork less responsive and negate the rebound damping.

Edited by THE KRAN
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21 minutes ago, THE KRAN said:

You need stiffer springs, not more preload......... more preload will make the fork less responsive and negate the rebound damping.

I'm not looking to add preload. Looking to remove preload. 38mm free is a little high, but the guys at stillwell told me their EX setups have ran up to and slightly past 40 without major negative effects. I concur on the stiffer springs, which I'll take care of that when I send the forks in to Beta this winter. I've got 3 races left so I'm just trying to soften them up a bit more to get me through to the end of the season

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Why not increase the air gap from 130mm to 145 mm

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16 minutes ago, Retromlc said:

Why not increase the air gap from 130mm to 145 mm

That is a novel idea. Would soften things up without me throwing my free out the window. What if I did that in combination with removing a few mils from the preload spacer. That would still keep my free somewhat in check

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Oil height has no effect until 70% of travel is used.

Going from less than 40 to more than 40 means a softer spring, OR a shorter spring. 

 

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Start with around 5mm internal preload. These oc or cc forks. Is your rear spring and sags ok ??

MM 

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23 minutes ago, MartyMOOSE said:

Start with around 5mm internal preload. These oc or cc forks. Is your rear spring and sags ok ??

MM 

Ok, I'll give that a go. Is the internal preload just a solid spacer, or a stack? Forks are open chamber, rear was taken care of over the winter, but funds ran short on taking care of the forks. I'm still having a hard time understanding why a bike that should be undersprung for me only has a race sag of 60mm

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Gee testing my memory now, there is a thick preload spacer on the spring seat I took this off and replaced it with a steel washer you must relive the inner ID of the washer so it sits flat, you can also take out one washer in the cap this gave me about 5mm preload once this was done, they are over preloaded std. I don't put to much weight on front sags as its very subjective and hard to repeat values. What bike is it and how much do you weigh ?

All the oc Sachs forks I've seen need a shim shuffle to work well to much preload combined with lost of bleed and funky stacks = issues that many talk about. You can muck around with oil weights etc etc but they really do need a revalve to work properly I think. 

 

MM 

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15 minutes ago, MartyMOOSE said:

Gee testing my memory now, there is a thick preload spacer on the spring seat I took this off and replaced it with a steel washer you must relive the inner ID of the washer so it sits flat, you can also take out one washer in the cap this gave me about 5mm preload once this was done, they are over preloaded std. I don't put to much weight on front sags as its very subjective and hard to repeat values. What bike is it and how much do you weigh ?

All the oc Sachs forks I've seen need a shim shuffle to work well to much preload combined with lost of bleed and funky stacks = issues that many talk about. You can muck around with oil weights etc etc but they really do need a revalve to work properly I think. 

 

MM 

So you pulled the entire preload spacer, #11? And then just added another washer on top of the spring washer? The other 2 preload washers are below it, 14 and 15, I'm assuming you pulled one of those? I'm not putting too much in it, but because my sag values are roughly 40mm off the golden rule of a 100ish for beta's, I am trying to get that number closer to its target.

 

With gear I'm right around 235 lbs. My bike is a 2015 Beta 300RR. The forks have been rebuilt by Stillwell prior to me buying the bike,  so their has been valve work done, but what exactly, I'm not sure. Just talked with my local dealer today about getting ahold of Beta and seeing what the cost would be to do the "Factory" valving kit that they do in-house.

 

 

Screenshot_2017-10-10-21-48-16.png

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1 hour ago, Doogster85 said:

So you pulled the entire preload spacer, #11? And then just added another washer on top of the spring washer? The other 2 preload washers are below it, 14 and 15, I'm assuming you pulled one of those? I'm not putting too much in it, but because my sag values are roughly 40mm off the golden rule of a 100ish for beta's, I am trying to get that number closer to its target.

 

With gear I'm right around 235 lbs. My bike is a 2015 Beta 300RR. The forks have been rebuilt by Stillwell prior to me buying the bike,  so their has been valve work done, but what exactly, I'm not sure. Just talked with my local dealer today about getting ahold of Beta and seeing what the cost would be to do the "Factory" valving kit that they do in-house.

 

 

Screenshot_2017-10-10-21-48-16.png

Have a look hear http://www.betarider.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1155&start=0

 

MM 

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8 hours ago, Doogster85 said:

 because my sag values are roughly 40mm off the golden rule of a 100ish for beta's, I am trying to get that number closer to its target.

 

 

You're not 40mm off front sag dude. 100ish is for rear ride sag.

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20 minutes ago, livefivetwofive said:

You're not 40mm off front sag dude. 100ish is for rear ride sag.

Yep 20-40 static 40-60 loaded as a rough guide. But its hard to get repeat measurements from people as many do silly things like not aligning their fork legs etc etc. 

MM  

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5 hours ago, MartyMOOSE said:

Yep 20-40 static 40-60 loaded as a rough guide. But its hard to get repeat measurements from people as many do silly things like not aligning their fork legs etc etc. 

MM  

Those are the numbers I was originally asking for. In that case I'm in spec(ish). Alright so what do the Sachs take well to on adjustments? Air gap change, shim stack change, lighter oil? Definitely going to check into some different valving this winter, anyone had good success with any specific shop or valving changes? Atm I'm planning on just shipping them to beta this winter

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5 hours ago, Doogster85 said:

Those are the numbers I was originally asking for. In that case I'm in spec(ish). Alright so what do the Sachs take well to on adjustments? Air gap change, shim stack change, lighter oil? Definitely going to check into some different valving this winter, anyone had good success with any specific shop or valving changes? Atm I'm planning on just shipping them to beta this winter

What do you weigh?

Fyi Steve Beane from PlusOnePerformance (motoxgiant on TT) is not far from you and does great work.  He did the forks on my 17 390 race and they're awesome and his prices are very reasonable. 

Edited by Danceswithtrees
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1 hour ago, Danceswithtrees said:

What do you weigh?

Fyi Steve Beane from PlusOnePerformance (motoxgiant on TT) is not far from you and does great work.  He did the forks on my 17 390 race and they're awesome and his prices are very reasonable. 

What he said save your time and money do it once, you will need springs at 235lbs. Steve will sort you out...... 

MM 

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To get you through the season, simply crank in the preload to get good rider sag. Then stiffen up the rebound a few clicks at a time to prevent the springs from kicking. Just when the bike starts to pack in the whoops, back off the rebound. It requires a lot of riding through the same section to get it just right. Your ride will end up being on the stiff side but very manageable.

After getting the rebound set, you can work on backing off the low speed compression settings to help with a little more compliant ride. The high speed compression setting can then be fine tuned for the high speed "G Outs" and sharp edged hard hits.

It's not a perfect solution but works pretty damn good. I've been doing this on all my bikes for years to get me through the first season with soft springs. Contrary to what others may lead you to believe it's actually a decent solution to keep you racing without the added expense of new springs.

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