Johnny Depp

Argeseries Beta limited editions

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Anybody in Buenos Aires try one of these out? I'm curious if they'll do it again for '18? There seems to be very little love for the new Racing Editions Sachs, I though this might be an interesting conversation.

I know BYOB now has these Ohlins, just curious the story behind the Argentina importer's story?

 

beta-rr-300-k3-full-ohlins-rps-bikes-roque-perez-y-saladillo-D_NQ_NP_692015-MLA25109248155_102016-F.jpg

beta-rr-430-k2-ohlins-no-ktm-crf-wr-rps-bikes-roque-perez-D_NQ_NP_622003-MLA25687339615_062017-F.jpg

argentina.jpg

Edited by Johnny Depp

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5 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

Anybody in Buenos Aires try one of these out? I'm curious if they'll do it again for '18? There seems to be very little love for the new Racing Editions Sachs, I though this might be an interesting conversation.

I know BYOB now has these Ohlins, just curious the story behind the Argentina importer's story?

 

beta-rr-300-k3-full-ohlins-rps-bikes-roque-perez-y-saladillo-D_NQ_NP_692015-MLA25109248155_102016-F.jpg

beta-rr-430-k2-ohlins-no-ktm-crf-wr-rps-bikes-roque-perez-D_NQ_NP_622003-MLA25687339615_062017-F.jpg

argentina.jpg

Why is there" little love for racing edition Sachs?" I'm kind of perplexed about that one.    Did you ever try one? Has anyone put any time into tuning and the race editions haven't even arrived yet and the forks are written off...As far as ohlins goes you can put a search hey you asked about this already in the past ... A guy on Betarider had a set for sale at a discount and it took a while to sell but it did go. Few seem to buy or have much experience.. or maybe the guys that have them speak italian, french and spanish as a first language and aren't posting up here much. I'm sure they work great if the bike is set up.. Boano wouldn't run them on their race bikes if they were shitty I think.... but really who here has said that the race edition cc Sachs not work who hasn't had them valved for them? I know of those that have had the race editions locally guys seem to just not to have spent time tuning and putting springs for their weight.. valvinge etc... It's been known to come stiffer on the race editions and well I figure it's supposed to for mx or faster harder riding.. Beta also has a new service for Beta riders for suspension for anyone ..... So far the only feedback has been good from cullins and those who ride with them. I wouldn't say something is bad before knowing more about them and I'm not so sure ohlins is any better without those with experience to say . I'm leary of internet "experience" so far as it is regarding when I've ridden Betas for a few years now in local terrain with different forks . The feedback so far has been varied and inconsistent from my experience so far. I'm even a little bit more pro cc Sachs after the Steve Holcombe interview where he uses the stock forks and has it valved and sprung and has won at least one Enduro world championship in E3. As far as ohlins.. Boano has had setups for sale for years on a variety of Betas for years now besides Argentina who's had them also for sale as an option for years.... They must be good.. but for how much?.. 

 

Remember you brought this up before? others have talked about this on different threads too for that matter..

https://www.google.com/search?q=beta+ohlins+thumpertalk+&oq=beta+ohlins+thumpertalk+&gs_l=psy-ab.12..35i39k1.3336.3336.0.6101.1.1.0.0.0.0.197.197.0j1.1.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.193....0.PKQDjeK1kDc

 

http://www.betaboano.com/ita/leggi_categoria.asp?cat_tit=RACE KIT&cat=28

20167131784.jpg

 

 

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6 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

Anybody in Buenos Aires try one of these out? I'm curious if they'll do it again for '18? There seems to be very little love for the new Racing Editions Sachs, I though this might be an interesting conversation.

I know BYOB now has these Ohlins, just curious the story behind the Argentina importer's story?

 

beta-rr-300-k3-full-ohlins-rps-bikes-roque-perez-y-saladillo-D_NQ_NP_692015-MLA25109248155_102016-F.jpg

beta-rr-430-k2-ohlins-no-ktm-crf-wr-rps-bikes-roque-perez-D_NQ_NP_622003-MLA25687339615_062017-F.jpg

argentina.jpg

 

The CC Sachs forks have been upgraded for 2018 to fix the 'deteriorating' slider problem.....the anodizing was failing, contaminating the oil very quickly, and prematurely wearing the sliders/bushings. 

The forks are not as good as KYB SSS, or even Showa, but then.....what is?    You get them upgraded with larger piston/valves and a proper shim stack, and they are quite good. 

The 'no fork love' consortium is wholesale over at the KTM threads.  All of those forks suck.

Olins are built better than a WP or a Sachs, but they too are waaaay off stock in the damping. And they are waaaay over priced. It's a profit thing, not a performance thing.

Please name me ONE pro rider who uses Olins in professional racing.

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The anodizing on the 2018 Race Edition forks looks identical to the previous years from the pictures Johnny Depp posted in the other thread.  

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1 hour ago, THE KRAN said:

 

The CC Sachs forks have been upgraded for 2018 to fix the 'deteriorating' slider problem.....the anodizing was failing, contaminating the oil very quickly, and prematurely wearing the sliders/bushings. 

The forks are not as good as KYB SSS, or even Showa, but then.....what is?    You get them upgraded with larger piston/valves and a proper shim stack, and they are quite good. 

The 'no fork love' consortium is wholesale over at the KTM threads.  All of those forks suck.

Olins are built better than a WP or a Sachs, but they too are waaaay off stock in the damping. And they are waaaay over priced. It's a profit thing, not a performance thing.

Please name me ONE pro rider who uses Olins in professional racing.

Off the top of my head?   The whole Boano race team I think uses ohlins.. In USA ohlins aren't popular . I don't know why.. Who distributes here? It doesn't look that expensive compared to other fork choices on the boano racing catalog but then I'm thinking guys would rather talk to guys here and I'm sure guys that maybe have a better grasp of the english language? I don't know.. just guessing there. I should hold my tongue as europeans are known for speaking many languages well and I can't speak english even that well.

http://enduro21.com/index.php/endurogp/1965-beta-boano-racing-ready-for-endurogp-battle

beta-boano-racing_CM_6105-60.jpg

 

Brad Freeman

beta-baono-racing_brad-freeman_CM_5906-1

 

Matteo Cavalo

beta-baono-racing_matteo-cavallo_CM_5901

Deny Philippaerts has been on the team for a while now.

 

 

 

 

beta-baono-racing_deny-philippaerts_CM_5

 

 

Steve Holcombe was on an ohlin Beta earlier.

http://enduro21.com/index.php/endurogp/66-my-ride-steve-holcombe-s-beta-rr-250

 

steve.holcombe_beta-250-rr_EWC-2015-Rnd-

 

steve.holcombe_beta-250-rr_EWC-2015-Rnd-

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not bagging on the Sachs CC's. I put this in a different thread rather than the RE release, but that thread had a bunch of comments about wanting KYB's. I assume the thread at Betariders has taken a toll on the trust in the Sachs durability. No doubt the forks can be great as Holcombe proves, he has no worries about worn parts. It seems the norm that they don't work too good out of the box in the past, like Dirt Bike Test has recently stated. The RR model OC's seem to be better received by testers other than springs being soft, no deflection and stiffness complaints. 

 I am not some kind of Ohlins advocate, I just find it curious that some importer has chosen to build a limited run of premium suspension, probably what he could source was Ohlins, I notice the Boano decal and assume that was the association that the Beta factory was OK with. I imagine KYB's could be sourced as Gas Gas has, although for Gas Gas they don't seem to work well out of the box either. It seems to me that if you are paying $1k more for basically a fork upgrade and bling, you should be getting something that works right out of the box. The Sachs also don't have any DLC coated sliders like most premium products nor kashima coated uppers and other than CC don't seem to be too premium.

And of course Brad Freeman is the top Beta rider on the Boano with Ohlins, and Mike Holeshot Alessi ran them last year (and he is the only one I remember in forever) although many teams are associated with a particular brand and can't change suspension components without big politics.

s780_101912bikes013.jpg?1350688039

Edited by Johnny Depp
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3 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Boano has a whole Ohlins 6 days setup for sale..

 

http://www.betaboano.com/ita/isde_2016.asp

slide_2017_1.jpg

 

Is this real expensive for ohlins? I thought it was more expensive before but I don't know...

http://www.betaboano.com/ita/leggi_categoria.asp?cat_tit=OHLINS SALE&cat=32

20161215184315.jpg

 

beta_1_1550.jpg

They have all the Ohlins stuff up on BetaUSA now.  $1099 for the shock and $2899 for the complete forks.   You still have to buy springs also.

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Part of the reason for this new thread is not for something for the '18's, but keeping the focus on something that whether perception or reality, is an issue that should be considered for future products.

You're talking with someone (myself) that within 3 hours after a post about the new Honda's shock's riding low and creating crashes and frame breakage over at 
Vitalmx, coincidentally  American Honda issue a press release about the KYB  (not Showa) shock failure (twice) of Cole Seely's bike at the MX of Nations.

The point is there are lots of eyes on the internet from riders, dealers, distributors and manufacturer's. They are here to learn things and see what people are saying.

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1 minute ago, Johnny Depp said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bagging on the Sachs CC's. I put this in a different thread rather than the RE release, but that thread had a bunch of comments about wanting KYB's. I assume the thread at Betariders has taken a toll on the trust in the Sachs durability. No doubt the forks can be great as Holcombe proves, he has no worries about worn parts. It seems the norm that they don't work too good out of the box in the past, like Dirt Rider and Dirt Bike Test have recently stated. The RR model OC's seem to be better received by testers other than springs being soft, no deflection and stiffness complaints. 

 I am not some kind of Ohlins advocate, I just find it curious that some importer has chosen to build a limited run of premium suspension, probably what he could source was Ohlins, I notice the Boano decal and assume that was the association that the Beta factory was OK with. I imagine KYB's could be sourced as Gas Gas has, although for Gas Gas they don't seem to work well out of the box either. It seems to me that if you are paying $1k more for basically a fork upgrade and bling, you should be getting something that works right out of the box. The Sachs also don't have any DLC coated sliders like most premium products nor kashima coated uppers and other than CC don't seem to be too premium.

And of course Brad Freeman is the top Beta rider on the Boano with Ohlins, and Mike Holeshot Alessi ran them last year (and he is the only one I remember in forever) although many teams are associated with a particular brand and can't change suspension components without big politics.

s780_101912bikes013.jpg?1350688039

I just really wonder who has spent time riding and tuning with the cc Sachs. It's not like many say they have. Guys know yamaha and naturally jump on getting a kyb or honda showa or whatever fork they are comfortable with and like.. Maybe that's good. I don't know. I just see a bunch that jump ship quick or talk like they do.. like they already know??? . Look at that earlier thread. The bikes didn't even arrive and no one has even ridden one and guys are talking like they know the bike and how it works ahead of time to the point of making their decision already. That doesn't make sense to me.. but hey I guess some just don''t want to wait to find out before making decisions on how a bike works. :excuseme: To me I'd wait and try and find out first. I wont jump to conclusions. before I ride them myself or at least know some guys who have them and see how they work . But for guys that just like kyb no matter what then ok. They can figure ways to get a kyb. I see boano has a setup for that too.. or at least they used to. I didn't look lately but they had a variety of choices of forks earlier.

meanwhile I'm good with my open chamber Sachs fork with stiffer springs . I'm not racing mx..just some hare scrambles and extreme and my bike is working great. I came from a racetech gold valved sprung for my weight Showa suspended cr 250 honda with 20mm offsett triple clamps to make it turn even better than it does. It worked great. If my Beta OC forks were bad I'd straight up have it redone right away untill it's working right and feels good. As it is it's feeling pretty good. If I upgrade I have all of you posting here on suspension choices to refer to to make my bike even better.

 

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22 minutes ago, kbro45 said:

They have all the Ohlins stuff up on BetaUSA now.  $1099 for the shock and $2899 for the complete forks.   You still have to buy springs also.

I didn't check Sierra yet but I'd figure they'd have inserts or something. ok here's some..

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=beta+sierra+motors+ohlins+forks&oq=beta+sierra+motors+ohlins+forks&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64.19447j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Beta%20AB-42002.jpg

 

http://www.motosupply.com/beta-motorcycles-beta-beta-ohlins-fork-p-2474.html

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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And no, this is not my leg. But google Ohlins shock leg tatoo images and you will see dozens of these types of tatoo's. No Sachs:jawdrop:tatu-amortizatora-v-ruke.jpg

 

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14 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

Part of the reason for this new thread is not for something for the '18's, but keeping the focus on something that whether perception or reality, is an issue that should be considered for future products.

You're talking with someone (myself) that within 3 hours after a post about the new Honda's shock's riding low and creating crashes and frame breakage over at 
Vitalmx, coincidentally  American Honda issue a press release about the KYB  (not Showa) shock failure (twice) of Cole Seely's bike at the MX of Nations.

The point is there are lots of eyes on the internet from riders, dealers, distributors and manufacturer's. They are here to learn things and see what people are saying.

Yea.. maybe they watch.. like all of us watch but we have to sift through the crap before finding real information sometimes. That's the internet. I like to read and learn but I don't take a lot as credible.. could be some is true... and some is great information.. .. but could be a pile of shit too. There's a lot of gumby's out there..and a lot of bs that doesn't apply. Anyone at a computer is someone who knows absolutely nothing to some that are awesome sources of information.. and even if they are awesome sources of information they may not ride anything like what you ride.. So maybe some are watching and reading but some are also shaking their heads and have their head in their hands in disgust sometimes. The vetting process isn't exactly the same for everyone. I kind of sort of put a little tag on new information to watch . I'll hang back and wait for more verification as time goes on.. just to be more sure.

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10 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

And no, this is not my leg. But google Ohlins shock leg tatoo images and you will see dozens of these types of tatoo's. No Sachs:jawdrop:tatu-amortizatora-v-ruke.jpg

 

That's cool for a picture.. but to put that on my body permanent just wont ever happen..I have a Dad who still regrets a rose tattoo he put on his arm since the 50's when he was in the navy. I've heard a lifetime of.. "What was I thinking!!!" . I'm not a tattoo guy . Just being around my Dad cured me of that.

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The Del Sagio sphere gets better reviews.............and is acutally used by racers. If you look closely at the top of privateer bikes in SX, you will see them....for those riders who don't want to spend $11k on A-kit suspension.

https://www.dalsoggiorace.com/sphere-hydraulic-cartridge/

MXA just did a test on several versions and gave it rave reviews.

Edited by THE KRAN
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11 minutes ago, THE KRAN said:

The Del Sagio sphere gets better reviews.............and is acutally used by racers. If you look closely at the top of privateer bikes in SX, you will see them....for those riders who don't want to spend $11k on A-kit suspension.

https://www.dalsoggiorace.com/sphere-hydraulic-cartridge/

MXA just did a test on several versions and gave it rave reviews.

I could have told you that long before MXA... 

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3 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

Mike Holeshot Alessi ran them last year (and he is the only one I remember in forever) although many teams are associated with a particular brand and can't change suspension components without big politics.

s780_101912bikes013.jpg?1350688039

I always find it so weird that Alessi never runs the brands colors.. It's sort of an f u because they should have sponsor parts or money from a brand and I guess they don't get it? You see hondas that are white and weird stuff like that. I guess maybe that's why someone like him might have ohlins. It's like an aftermarket company? I don't get the promotion of motoconcepts.. I don't know Alessi's camp has been always full of drama and weird shit over the years. Alessi had a big head.. or was it his Dad or I don't know what the deal was but he was a brat saying he'd blow everyone's doors riding the big class the first time he rode with the big boy pro mx classes. I'm guessing he's been slapped down and good but not that good now.. That's a nice bike. check for pointers shining on the starting line now..

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1 hour ago, THE KRAN said:

The Del Sagio sphere gets better reviews.............and is acutally used by racers. If you look closely at the top of privateer bikes in SX, you will see them....for those riders who don't want to spend $11k on A-kit suspension.

https://www.dalsoggiorace.com/sphere-hydraulic-cartridge/

MXA just did a test on several versions and gave it rave reviews.

Yea dirtbird says that's great for a while now.... but he's a suspension dude so he knows about all that high end stuff. 

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6 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

I always find it so weird that Alessi never runs the brands colors.. It's sort of an f u because they should have sponsor parts or money from a brand and I guess they don't get it? You see hondas that are white and weird stuff like that. I guess maybe that's why someone like him might have ohlins. It's like an aftermarket company? I don't get the promotion of motoconcepts.. I don't know Alessi's camp has been always full of drama and weird shit over the years. Alessi had a big head.. or was it his Dad or I don't know what the deal was but he was a brat saying he'd blow everyone's doors riding the big class the first time he rode with the big boy pro mx classes. I'm guessing he's been slapped down and good but not that good now.. That's a nice bike. check for pointers shining on the starting line now..

I  think Alessi's personal habits have put him in a position that manf's don't want him to run their colors anymore!

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7 hours ago, Monk said:

I could have told you that long before MXA... 

 It seems the perceived problem with the Sachs is durability of the upper fork? It may or may not be any different than any other fork including KYB's, but it seems like it has scared some people enough to be concerned. A cartridge kit doesn't solve that issue, and I'm curious to those that have gone this direction if they have checked for excessive wear? It's not just dampening quality we are talking about here.  TM and Gas Gas come stock with KYB and seem to be poorly set up. Sherco, Beta and KTM owners are all doing KYB conversions and have been for a long time. It seems the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

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