Difficulty starting when cold/idle

[BillDirt1]

Yes, you can.

 

 

[jjktmrider]

It would be nice if that shop had a bore scope to stick down the plug hole and actually look for signs the valve(s) are cupping , I've used mine quite a bit to verify condition inside without needing to rip a good motor apart to see the same thing ,is hard to always get a good image but often possible with the small mirrors on the scopes tip . Just because the valves were out of spec doesn't mean you have to rip it apart , you have no idea if the previous shop did the job right in the first place . It's possible the yahoo that worked on it just had them set too tight and the guy you bought it from may have just lived with it . If you can't borescope them the thing I'd do is set the valves clearance correctly and run it 500miles(or600-700km) and check them again to see if they moved or not . Then you'll have better info on what is really going on , or not going on . You should definitely pay close attention to any sounds coming from the motor during those 6-700km just in case the valve(s) are bad , wouldn't be nice to have one break off and the reason I like using my scope .

 

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[Kor3y101]

5 hours ago, Diverdown said:

Yes, you can.

 

 

Perfect!   Thanks.

 

I'm assuming this is the only thing it could be right? The only sign of it being bad though is the thin oil that has a slight smell of gas. The carby doesn't leak, even with the petcock in the 'on' position, it doesnt have starting issues, choke functions as it should, motor doesn't get hydrolocked. 

54 minutes ago, jjktmrider said:

It would be nice if that shop had a bore scope to stick down the plug hole and actually look for signs the valve(s) are cupping , I've used mine quite a bit to verify condition inside without needing to rip a good motor apart to see the same thing ,is hard to always get a good image but often possible with the small mirrors on the scopes tip . Just because the valves were out of spec doesn't mean you have to rip it apart , you have no idea if the previous shop did the job right in the first place . It's possible the yahoo that worked on it just had them set too tight and the guy you bought it from may have just lived with it . If you can't borescope them the thing I'd do is set the valves clearance correctly and run it 500miles(or600-700km) and check them again to see if they moved or not . Then you'll have better info on what is really going on , or not going on . You should definitely pay close attention to any sounds coming from the motor during those 6-700km just in case the valve(s) are bad , wouldn't be nice to have one break off and the reason I like using my scope .

 

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I doubt they checked it with a borescope but they are a reputable suzuki repairer. I will be checking the clearances again after 600km and see where they are at as well as monitoring for any starting issues. It sounds like a tractor but I believe that's how it should sound haha. 

No strange whines or grinding sounds, all seems smooth. Can definitely hear it ticking over at idle but that's a characteristic of a big single I guess. 

Fingers crossed the previous shop were just idiots. 

[BillDirt1]

Yeah good place to start/eliminate. Moose carb rebuild kit $40. Comes with everything.

 

Needle & seat alone from dealer is $60.

 

 

[Kor3y101]

4 hours ago, Diverdown said:

Yeah good place to start/eliminate. Moose carb rebuild kit $40. Comes with everything.

 

Needle & seat alone from dealer is $60.

 

 

I will probably end up buying the whole kit as you suggested.

 

What else could be the reason? Thats the only way fuel is able to enter the chamber and seep past the rings into the oil. So that should be the only way for it to happen? If the float and needle are holding the fuel back as well as me turning off the petcock, there is no other possible way for it to enter the oil? Unless I'm missing something? 

[BillDirt1]

Nope, you got it. That should do it.

[ohiodrz400sm]

The only other way for fuel to get in is if people are messing with your throttle. The accelerator pump squits a stream of fuel into the intake port like a kids water pistol everytime the throttle is opened.

[Kor3y101]

On 10/28/2017 at 11:27 PM, Diverdown said:

Nope, you got it. That should do it.

Perfect!  Thanks heaps! 

On 10/28/2017 at 11:41 PM, ohiodrz400sm said:

The only other way for fuel to get in is if people are messing with your throttle. The accelerator pump squits a stream of fuel into the intake port like a kids water pistol everytime the throttle is opened.

Ahh okay. This could possibly be part of the issue also. Prior to the valves being shimmer to correct clearances, there was fists full of throttle to try and crank it over by the previous owner. I know not to use the throttle when starting the bike. 

 

 

Now, sorry to be a PITA, I have attached a copy of the carby expansion sheet from the manual. It is the Valve Seat (22) and Needle Valve (23) that need to be replaced along with the little o-ring that is above the Valve Seat in the diagram. Is that correct?   

This is my first time messing with a carby for this issue and I just want to ensure I am replacing the correct parts.

 

Cheers!

[BillDirt1]

Correct & the little o-ring above it.

 

 

[BillDirt1]

Heres the kit, o-ring already on needle/seat assy.

[Kor3y101]

Cheers!

 

Ive swivelled the carb around (it's a FCR which is very hard to find a "how-to" for. But I managed to move it enough to get the bowl off. 

It looks squeaky clean. Did a little test, had the tank connected and turned it on while holding the float up so the needle was closed. Not a single leak. Let it down and fuel comes out. It operates very smoothly and there is no varnish inside the carby. 

I dont think there is a problem with it. I think that the oil may of gotten contaminated by the throttle constantly being turned to try and start it when it had valve issues. 

I'll have to take it for a run around the block a few times and change the oil again and see how we go. I'll buy a few filters and do a few changes.

 

Any advice on how to get fuel out of the oil quickly? Just have to keep warming it up and dropping the oil/filter til it's gone? 

[Kor3y101]

Just a couple photos of the float. Don't mind the fuel on the float near the needle. I didnt have it held when I first turned the fuel on. I had cleaned it up and dried it off then closed it and not a drop about.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Kor3y101

[jjktmrider]

Is it just me or is the post broken where the float pivots ? the pivot pin is just sitting in the half pocket but there isn't the top half . Trying to remember if my fcr's have a small flathead screw holding it instead , quite possible .

 

 

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Edited October 30, 2017 by jjktmrider

[ohiodrz400sm]

That looks broke to me. I'm pretty sure my FCR-MX pin is fully trapped. I didn't make a note to look and remember though.

[ohiodrz400sm]

Can you take a picture of the entire carburetor?

[jjktmrider]

It's a Kehien jet sticking down , #165 plus the bowl drain plug so I'd assume it's a FCR . The jet kit posted earlier was for a Mikuni so not right . All the pics I've found have had the float pin completely captive so the post is broken . I think it's some of the CVK carbs that have the float pivot pin held in by a flathead.

 

 

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Edited October 30, 2017 by jjktmrider

[ohiodrz400sm]

Found this . Looks like it's the way it is.

[ohiodrz400sm]

Should be a screw on the other side

 

 

[Kor3y101]

The carby is definitely a Keihin CR39 (FCR). Being from Australia, our 'E's come stock with them. The post isn't broken as it appears to be cast that way with no evidence of metal fragments from looking up at the post. 

 

Yes, it's a Keihin #165 Jet, drain plug on the bowl. Good spotting! 

There is a Phillips head screw on the opposite side of the float holding the pin in (same as the picture that Ohio posted) the pin on the side that appears broken does not budge at all and has no adhesive/silicone or gunk holding it so i can only assume it is normal. The float moves up and down very smoothly with no jerking or obvious issues with that pin. 

It's difficult to find many pictures of the carby but I found this one on Google also tbat shows the same thing. Although difficult to see, the post is the same. 

 

I have also attached a dodgy photo of the carby on the bike. There is so much crap running off it that it is hard to see fully. 

 

[jjktmrider]

Must be some differences in how that pin is held in different fcrs . I remembered seeing some held this way(not which carbs it was) but Looking at a few different pictures off Google showed some with the hole . Forget I mentioned it ?,  ? .

Edited October 31, 2017 by jjktmrider