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For those who have changed the Sachs CC valving or springs.

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Well it's winter, so on to tinkering. So I've got a few things to look into.

 

How accurate is Beta's spring chart? I weigh about 185lbs and I usually have about 30lbs of gear (32lbs last time I weighed it) when riding off road, but when I practice at the local endurocross track, I have probably 20lbs less of gear.

 

So 215lbs off road and 195ish when practicing. Which puts me right at the cusp for 2 fork spring weights.

 

(stock is 42's)

44's = 191-210lbs

46's = 211-230lbs

 

So of course I'd like to be properly sprung off road/racing. But I spend just as much time at the practice track, and also when I ride off road with the kids, I'm not all geared up either. So I don't want some stiff jarring forks if I'm not carrying water, tools, upper body armour, etc.

 

If the chart is accurate for the shock, then I should be good bumping up just 1 rate.

 

5.4 = 200-224lbs

 

 

Then as far as the valving goes. I'm obviously a bit heavy for the stock springs (a bunch heavy offroad). I've also read the fork oil that comes in the Sachs is pretty thick, and using a regular fork fluid (fluid is different than oil I guess) softens them up some. So my question there is how many guys have run the stock valving, with just a fluid swap. Does it really make that big of a difference on the CC units?

 

Edited by Goatse

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I'm the exact same weight as you, and I have the 44 in the front and a 5.4 in the rear.  I always ride with gear, but I don't always ride with tools and hydration pack. It has never felt jarring or too stiff. 

I had Les at LT-Racing do a revalve and new springs and it is pure magic, the best suspension I've had. The thing I've noticed is how well it holds the bike up and how balanced it is. When I go over bike rocks the frame stays level while the suspension reacts to the bumps (my friend took a video). Only cost about $600 because I lived in Washington at the time and didn't have to ship them.

Edited by brysonrs
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2 hours ago, Goatse said:

 

Well it's winter, so on to tinkering. So I've got a few things to look into.

 

How accurate is Beta's spring chart? I weigh about 185lbs and I usually have about 30lbs of gear (32lbs last time I weighed it) when riding off road, but when I practice at the local endurocross track, I have probably 20lbs less of gear.

 

So 215lbs off road and 195ish when practicing. Which puts me right at the cusp for 2 fork spring weights.

 

(stock is 42's)

44's = 191-210lbs

46's = 211-230lbs

 

So of course I'd like to be properly sprung off road/racing. But I spend just as much time at the practice track, and also when I ride off road with the kids, I'm not all geared up either. So I don't want some stiff jarring forks if I'm not carrying water, tools, upper body armour, etc.

 

If the chart is accurate for the shock, then I should be good bumping up just 1 rate.

 

5.4 = 200-224lbs

 

 

Then as far as the valving goes. I'm obviously a bit heavy for the stock springs (a bunch heavy offroad). I've also read the fork oil that comes in the Sachs is pretty thick, and using a regular fork fluid (fluid is different than oil I guess) softens them up some. So my question there is how many guys have run the stock valving, with just a fluid swap. Does it really make that big of a difference on the CC units?

 

Solid screen name.

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1 hour ago, brysonrs said:

I'm the exact same weight as you, and I have the 44 in the front and a 5.4 in the rear.  I always ride with gear, but I don't always ride with tools and hydration pack. It has never felt jarring or too stiff. 

I had Les at LT-Racing do a revalve and new springs and it is pure magic, the best suspension I've had. The thing I've noticed is how well it holds the bike up and how balanced it is. When I go over bike rocks the frame stays level while the suspension reacts to the bumps (my friend took a video). Only cost about $600 because I lived in Washington at the time and didn't have to ship them.

Yea im thinking about sending mine to him. I looked at stillwell, kreft, and LT.........and honestly he seems like the best route for the money. I like my 2018 sachs currently but I'd like better compliance over roots and such. I too have noticed the forks not staying up in the stroke where I'd like them.

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Yea im thinking about sending mine to him. I looked at stillwell, kreft, and LT.........and honestly he seems like the best route for the money. I like my 2018 sachs currently but I'd like better compliance over roots and such. I too have noticed the forks not staying up in the stroke where I'd like them.

He does great work, you won’t be disappointed.

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I'm the exact same weight as you goatse and carry close to the same weight. I went to the 4.6/5.6 based on a few recommendations. Made a big difference. Granted this is on the OC forks. I live close to LTR and I plan to take them to him this winter for a revalve. I was spoiled with the FX suspension so I'm trying to get them as close as possible

 

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I'm assuming you have a 2 stroke...anyway, I'm in the 190-195 range and run .45kg with my Stillwell-tuned CC Marzocchi's. I've got a set of stock CC Sach's with .46 springs and the spring rate feels pretty spot on for me. 

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I am 180 + gear, I run a 5.4 on the rear and one 44 and one 42 in the front, This gets me perfect rear sag without the forks being too hard.

 

Does anyone else run mis matched front springs?

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I am 180 + gear, I run a 5.4 on the rear and one 44 and one 42 in the front, This gets me perfect rear sag without the forks being too hard.
 
Does anyone else run mis matched front springs?


There is nothing wrong with running 2 different rates. Your forks act as 1 unit when clamped together. You will essentially achieve a rate between those.

At 180 without gear you should be running 4,6N/mm up front and a 5,6 in the rear.

What do you consider perfect sag?

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Im 200 + Gear, my local Beta shop suggested .44 and 5.4 as betas chart shows. I went with that.  I feel its not enough. I have the rear pre load almost maxed to get 110 sag. Not very happy with this. What are your recommendations? I run XC and Enduros Nov A. Also like to hit the track for training. 

2016 250RR Race Edition. Wide range of terrain, sand to roots and rocks. 

All over Ontario

 

Edited by ONyX711

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Im 200 + Gear, my local Beta shop suggested .44 and 5.4 as betas chart shows. I went with that.  I feel its not enough. I have the rear pre load almost maxed to get 110 sag. Not very happy with this. What are your recommendations? I run XC and Enduros Nov A. Also like to hit the track for training. 
 


Which bike?

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2016 250 RR-Race Edition


4,8 N/mm front and 58 rear.

Be sure to adjust the spring perch position to achieve as close to 0-1mm of preload.

Throw 8mm of preload on rear and slow the reb down.
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1 hour ago, Dadee said:

 

 


What do you consider perfect sag?

 

35/100mm

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35/100mm


I assume you are measuring sag sitting on the bike.

Take a measurement while standing on the pegs with no weight put on the bars. This gives a much more universal and consistent measurement.

Also have a buddy slowly push down on rear and let naturally rest. Measure. Then pull up and let naturally rest. Measure again. The average between these 2 measurements is your actual sag. Friction will make these measurements differ.

Im 160lbs with a 250rr and a 5.4 kg/mm rear spring gets me close to your numbers, with a touch more static sag(which is preferred).
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Im 185ish naked plus 25lbs gear and run .46 front and 5.6 rear.  Weight is not the only consideration for spring rate.   Faster riders will put more load into the springs with higher corner speeds, harder braking, etc. 

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Funny the mismatched springs just came up. As I was lying in bed lastnight and thinking about dirtbikes (because what else would one think about?), it came to me that since it seemed like 44's were too low, and 46's too high, that I'll run one of each for a 45 setup. I do the exact same in my road race bike (different weights of course), and it's a great way to fine tune springs rates to weight.

Also, to the guys above saying the rates are soft, are you sure you're using the correct weights? You don't use your body weight for the chart, you use your riding weight. Like mentioned above, some guys ride with over 30lbs of gear added to them. Using your body weight, would have you the "1-2 rates too soft".

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Another option.

https://www.facebook.com/allmotoperformance/

Beta spring chart is wrong fyi. Tends to be 1-2 rates too soft. That coupled with too much spring preload and you get less than optimal performance.



I'm from Canada, so the extra cost of shipping across the border isn't really an option. I'd love to use one of the known suspension places, but the cost just isn't practical. Also, if it does end up being just a spring swap, I'd do it myself. I could mess with the valving, but unlike my Yamaha there isn't a whole bunch of info out there on shim stacks for the Beta/Sachs setups.

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Well Goatse, if you wanted to use LT I'm in the Kalispell area of Montana and could get them to him easy enough - wished I had done that instead of the direction I took. PM me if this is of interest to you.

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