200 exc 2013 fried clutch, dry gearbox - caused by loose slave?

My past few rides I have been smelling gearbox oil, stupidly I had a quick look about while out riding and ignored it. I've also noticed that at high rpm it felt like I was riding the clutch a bit however it seems to clear up once the bike is ridden hard for a couple of minutes.

My last ride the bike was performing as above and then I entered a really technical area where the clutch is constantly being used, lots of time stuck trying to drop the clutch to get out ect. Bike stalled and I couldn't start it in gear, revving bike would result in the bike jolting forward and the lever went all spongy. I continued on for another 30~ minutes until the bike was riding the clutch really badly, at this point I rode home which is approx 5 miles, the bike was riding the clutch to the point of my maximum "cruise" speed being 30mph unless I went WOT at which point it would reach it's usual top speed.

While out on the ride I had quick look at slave cylinder when it began to play up and noticed the top bolt that holds the slave to the case (the one that goes through the chain guard) was loose, half way out. I tightened it up but noticed it wasn't biting properly. Now I have had a look at the bike and realised somehow I have used the wrong length bolt and it had never actually "tightened" properly, it barely bites at all and obviously has been loose for the past couple of rides however only when under harsh conditions has it completely come out.

I warmed bike up, dropped oil and a maximum of 50ml came out and under the clutch cover was a lovely fried clutch...

Now to the questions...
Is it possible I lost all of my oil via the slave? It must have been loose for about 8-10 hour riding time and slowly been losing gearbox oil or is it near to impossible to loose a full 600ml of gearbox oil via one loose bolt on the slave considering it's held on by the other 2 bolts? I don't think it's burning it as it doesn't smoke anymore than a typical 2t. 

Am I OK to put in a new clutch kit and not worry about anything else? 

 

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Edited by Munch1

It is most likely you blew a right side crank seal and burned the oil.

5 minutes ago, ZsDadXCw said:

It is most likely you blew a right side crank seal and burned the oil.

 

What would cause a crank seal to blow?

They just wear out and start leaking. We just did the one on my son’s 105sx

3 minutes ago, ZsDadXCw said:

They just wear out and start leaking. We just did the one on my son’s 105sx

 

Just looked through my purchase history, I did a full rebuild on the bike inc new rod, piston ect however noticed I only purchased the main bearings and not seals so you may have a good point.. I just thought I would see clear white smoke if it was burning gearbox oil however I will replace the seal just to be safe anyway.

Would be weird to do main bearings and not do seals when you're in there...you did the work? Or did you pay a shop and maybe they didn't bill out the seals? Just odd to do bearings and not seals, or at least it is to me.

Was there evidence of your slave leaking oil? A 550ml leak would be quite obvious, even over 8 hours. 

4 minutes ago, fuzzy-v said:

Would be weird to do main bearings and not do seals when you're in there...you did the work? Or did you pay a shop and maybe they didn't bill out the seals? Just odd to do bearings and not seals, or at least it is to me.

Was there evidence of your slave leaking oil? A 550ml leak would be quite obvious, even over 8 hours. 

 

It was me who did the work, I bought the bearings from a local bearing specialist as I had forgotten them when making my order of everything else and I forgot all about seals, big mistake that I have only just realised now...

 

No evidence at all which leads me to think that the bike was burning it. I would be out on the trail riding and when I come to a stop I would randomly smell ATF, I looked about and couldn't see anything the cases weren't wet or anything.

Oh yeah, then I agree 100% with prior posters, sounds like a bad crank seal. Change em up, fix your slave cylinder bolt, and you will be churning dirt in no time! 

I'd bet it burned it. If it was leaking out around the slave, you'd have a massive build up of dirt and oil around it. Would be quite obvious.

My main concern would be transmission bearing damage from lack of oil, but a little bit can go far enough to prevent them from serious damage. Put a new clutch in it, make sure the slave cylinder is tightened down, fill it up with oil and keep an eye on the level. If it goes down again, it's sucking it in through the crank seal. Also keep an eye on your clutch slave cylinder to make sure it's working right, as something besides lack of oil took the clutch out. My Ducati uses the same type of steels and fibers, has almost 13k miles on the clutch, and it's never had a drop of oil on it in it's life.

Edited by OLHILLBILLY

Does anyone have the size of the seals to see if I can get them locally? Can't seem to find it online.

 

Also I can replace the seals without splitting the cases right?

Seals are the same on practically every KTM 125-200 since the dawn of time. I recommend KTM seals. 

Left Side : 0760253570

Right Side: 0760324564

Hopefully somebody else can verify those numbers, but those are the part numbers I used for my 2009 200 XC-W, and I believe they are the same. 

I believe you can change without splitting cases. You will need to remove flywheel and stator on L side and outer/inner clutch cover on right side. When I did mine, I did them with the cases split, so I am not 100% sure how hard it is when they're together.  Can't be too bad, though. I can advice that when you pull the seals out, be careful not to score the bore the seal fits in, as it may cause the seal not to properly seal. 

 

Haw Munch, that was a bit of false economy not doing the seals - you should really use the KTM oem ones - they are only a fiver each from any KTM dealer. You can fit them without splitting the cases - it's usually the clutch side that goes for some reason. If you are dry behind your stator cover, it's up to you if you do the left hand one. Since you've stripped the engine before don't need to be reminded that the crank pinion has a left hand thread. You should replace the right hand o ring as well although it is not as guilty as the main seal.  I would imagine your box will be fine, they are pretty tough and only have 4 big bearings.  It's obviously bad worn to lose all your gearbox oil - young Bob's right hand seal actually blew out on his 125 at Hawkstone last year - the part of the track, other riders and spectators all disappeared in a fog of white smoke - looked pretty dramatic lol. Bob.

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