New 2018 300rr Pinging/Detonation

Having a problem with the new ride.. After heavy load, for instance full throttle through deep sand berms, or ESPECIALLY after a hill climb, after getting off the gas the bike starts idling high and knocks really bad. The harder it's pushed the worse it gets, and seems to run fine again with some easy riding or shutting it down for a minute. The knock goes away when I put a load back on it and get on the gas again, it's just letting off the gas when it happens.

 

I'm talking to the dealer about it and he's initiating warranty process, but he's over 3 hours away and I will have to do some troubleshooting. The fuel height is good, and jetting feels perfect. I'm going to make sure fuel flow is unrestricted, maybe open the stator cover and make sure no oily residue or evidence of crank seal leak. Also going to play with the mixture screw a bit.

I run 93 octane pump gas with ethanol (ethanol free premium is getting hard to find). I'm wondering if I should try running some race gas to see if it goes away? And if so, should I do a 100 octane or a 110 octane? Maybe mix 50/50 with regular gas? What do you guys think? It sounds like a lot of folks have resolved pinging with race fuel or a richer tune, however the fact that it doesn't happen under load is what throws me off..

 

If all else fails the dealer is going to send me the carb off his bike to try. My understanding is detonation is usually related to ignition or fuel (that really narrows it down, I know lol).

 

Thanks

Just for the hell of it check the oil injection fitting in the manifold. I saw one come loose in my hand just flexing it slightly. Potential air leak source.

It is happening only on decel?

My Xtrainer and my Friends 300RR both Pop, Pop, Pop on decel. Lowering my float help a lot.

1 hour ago, jacob429 said:

My understanding is detonation is usually related to ignition or fuel

It can also be related to compression squish band height.

Common issue with the Yamaha YZ250 where production tolerances have the height larger than optimal.

Even without detonation problems my YZ125 benefited greatly from closing up the band, much crisper running engine.

 

Since your problem is happening on deceleration I'd first suspect an air leak.

Edited by mlatour

Could be pipe bang.

 

 

You can hear mine pop on decel at the 30 second mark, is that what yours sounds like? If not then forget anything I have posted.

 

 https://youtu.be/OQYQ0vmgIqY

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can really hear it in this one. This was before I lowered the float.



9 hours ago, FUHL said:

You can really hear it in this one. This was before I lowered the float.
 

 

 

 

I believe mine does that too but the issue I'm referring to is more of a metallic tap, like if you were tapping on the head with a hammer. I'll dig through some footage today to see if I caught it on vid. It happens worse immediately after a hill climb, off gas and no engine load. 

My 2 stroke (03 CR250) and one of my cars will ping with Costco or Arco gas, but not with 76 or Chevron using the same octane, 91 for the CR and 87 the car both with ethanol. Adding startron helped, but the vehicles run better with Chevron and 76. I would expect Shell or Mobil to be good as well.

I run 110 in my 300 rr runs great

Bike sounds normal. I got that off throttle lean rev too, couldn't get rid of with a needle clip change. MORE noticeable when the bike was really hot. As far as that ping ping ping. That's normal and nothing to worry about. Don't chase pipe bang, if the butt dyno says it runs good, and your plug looks cocoa chocolate to slightly black your good. I changed my needle to NEDJ Clip 2 from top. Stock jets. I warmed the bike up and ripped around the yard and it felt good. Will be riding this weekend with the NEDJ and will get back to you. Also have NECJ/NECW/NEDW and a bevy of jets to try. If anything, go up on the main if your on the pipe hard, past 50% throttle. If you notice it more when you are below half throttle and let off, then I would RICHEN the needle one clip. A little rich is better than lean.

3 minutes ago, NEGbrap said:

Bike sounds normal. I got that off throttle lean rev too, couldn't get rid of with a needle clip change. MORE noticeable when the bike was really hot. As far as that ping ping ping. That's normal and nothing to worry about. Don't chase pipe bang, if the butt dyno says it runs good, and your plug looks cocoa chocolate to slightly black your good. I changed my needle to NEDJ Clip 2 from top. Stock jets. I warmed the bike up and ripped around the yard and it felt good. Will be riding this weekend with the NEDJ and will get back to you. Also have NECJ/NECW/NEDW and a bevy of jets to try. If anything, go up on the main if your on the pipe hard, past 50% throttle. If you notice it more when you are below half throttle and let off, then I would RICHEN the needle one clip. A little rich is better than lean.

It's not pipe bang, it's a loud scary knock. The more I think about it the more it sounds like a lean surge from a lean pilot circuit. I'll play with the mixture screw and report back if it makes any difference.

1 minute ago, jacob429 said:

It's not pipe bang, it's a loud scary knock. The more I think about it the more it sounds like a lean surge from a lean pilot circuit. I'll play with the mixture screw and report back if it makes any difference.

I'm sorry I mistook FUHL's video for you. 

Beta's jetting chart is pretty decent, except I do not like there needles. Your best bet is to confirm jetting for your temp/elevation, then go through the process of "where is the air leak". Check everywhere, pipe connections, air boot connections, carb connections. Wouldn't hurt to take the carb out and check the passage ways. Sometimes the choke can get clogged closed or clogged open. Have you tried pulling the choke in when riding to see the difference it makes? It should richen the mixture, and if your running lean it counter some of that. Kinda.

I'd also check the oil injection. For saftey sake you can run 100:1 in the tank and have ZERO negative effect on how the bike runs, but give you some insurance if you are having oil injection problems. Check connections too. I had some loose ones off the bat when I got my 2018 new that was causing my tach/gauge to die and flicker. It ended up being a loose horn connection and ground. PM me with your results and we can continue to trouble shoot.

26 minutes ago, NEGbrap said:

I'm sorry I mistook FUHL's video for you. 

Beta's jetting chart is pretty decent, except I do not like there needles. Your best bet is to confirm jetting for your temp/elevation, then go through the process of "where is the air leak". Check everywhere, pipe connections, air boot connections, carb connections. Wouldn't hurt to take the carb out and check the passage ways. Sometimes the choke can get clogged closed or clogged open. Have you tried pulling the choke in when riding to see the difference it makes? It should richen the mixture, and if your running lean it counter some of that. Kinda.

I'd also check the oil injection. For saftey sake you can run 100:1 in the tank and have ZERO negative effect on how the bike runs, but give you some insurance if you are having oil injection problems. Check connections too. I had some loose ones off the bat when I got my 2018 new that was causing my tach/gauge to die and flicker. It ended up being a loose horn connection and ground. PM me with your results and we can continue to trouble shoot.

Will do! Thanks.

The most reliable way for me to reproduce it is on hill climbs so I have to go to this spot 2 hrs away. I'll plan on taking it up there this weekend. 

In the mean time I'll do some checks on all carb fittings, oil injection, and crank seal for leaks. I don't have any sure fire way to check the crank seal though, so I was just gonna look for any signs of oil leakage.

Do you think it could be as simple as a jetting issue? 

44 minutes ago, jacob429 said:

Will do! Thanks.

The most reliable way for me to reproduce it is on hill climbs so I have to go to this spot 2 hrs away. I'll plan on taking it up there this weekend. 

In the mean time I'll do some checks on all carb fittings, oil injection, and crank seal for leaks. I don't have any sure fire way to check the crank seal though, so I was just gonna look for any signs of oil leakage.

Do you think it could be as simple as a jetting issue? 

Yes. When I first got my bike and ran it it felt very lean and surged. I checked the jetting and tried to go richer, and while it ran it seem to spoodge A LOT. So I pulled the carb, looked it over and checked the float height, reducing it slightly. I went back to stock jetting and leaned the clip one position....lean surge came back. I went to a NEDJ on 2nd clip, stock 38 pilot and 165 main and it seems to be running much better. This was at 0 elevation and 65 degrees. As it has been colder than a witch's tit lately, I will be jetting a little fatter. Ill give you an update Sunday...If my fence is done lol.

I think one think people forget, is that with the oil injection you ARE getting different mix through the rev range. it isnt a constant 32:1. This will effect jetting slightly. For me I will be happy with a nice grey/black ring right on the exhaust outlet. A little spoodge is ok as long as you aren't swimming.

Also if you haven't all ready, take two zip ties and put them on the pipe to silencer connection. That boot is notorious for being out of spec.

I also took the jetting graph out the manual at put it in a excel. I attached a PNG for you. Follow that and it should be very close.

Beta 300RR Jetting graph.PNG

56 minutes ago, NEGbrap said:

Yes. When I first got my bike and ran it it felt very lean and surged. I checked the jetting and tried to go richer, and while it ran it seem to spoodge A LOT. So I pulled the carb, looked it over and checked the float height, reducing it slightly. I went back to stock jetting and leaned the clip one position....lean surge came back. I went to a NEDJ on 2nd clip, stock 38 pilot and 165 main and it seems to be running much better. This was at 0 elevation and 65 degrees. As it has been colder than a witch's tit lately, I will be jetting a little fatter. Ill give you an update Sunday...If my fence is done lol.

I think one think people forget, is that with the oil injection you ARE getting different mix through the rev range. it isnt a constant 32:1. This will effect jetting slightly. For me I will be happy with a nice grey/black ring right on the exhaust outlet. A little spoodge is ok as long as you aren't swimming.

Also if you haven't all ready, take two zip ties and put them on the pipe to silencer connection. That boot is notorious for being out of spec.

I also took the jetting graph out the manual at put it in a excel. I attached a PNG for you. Follow that and it should be very close.

Beta 300RR Jetting graph.PNG

Thats excellent. Thank you NEG. Yeah the dealer zip tied a bunch of stuff including the pipe connection and oil injector lines on the connectors. I had one zip the come loose on the pipe connector once and it sprayed spooge all over the carb and jug. 

Btw I am at the same elevation and temperature. 

1 minute ago, jacob429 said:

Thats excellent. Thank you NEG. Yeah the dealer zip tied a bunch of stuff including the pipe connection and oil injector lines on the connectors. I had one zip the come loose on the pipe connector once and it sprayed spooge all over the carb and jug. 

Btw I am at the same elevation and temperature. 

Yea no prob. I keep a copy in my garage. Don't tell work, but I printed the manual and had it hole punched and laminated by an intern MUAHAHAHAHAHA

14 hours ago, FUHL said:

You can really hear it in this one. This was before I lowered the float.
 

Thank you FUHL. My 2014 RR300 sounds exactly like yours, esp on the overrun.  Someone told me I needed to get it sorted or I'd damage the motor, but here's me now at 220 hours. Swapped the pipe last weekend and checked out the bore and piston via the exhaust port. All still looks pristine :)

And my bike was gently broken in for the first 22 hours of its life ridden (not by me!!!) in gold class Romaniacs.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, NEGbrap said:

Yea no prob. I keep a copy in my garage. Don't tell work, but I printed the manual and had it hole punched and laminated by an intern MUAHAHAHAHAHA

Damn.  You one-upped me.  I've got a manual printed, hole punched, and in a three ring binder by a friend who does printing, but not laminated :(  Nice.

 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now