Total loss of compression, or Spark

53 minutes ago, mixxer said:

I'm not guessing anything.....

I just came in to help you guys out....

I'm not sure if this is indicative of Beta riders in general... But there is a stark lack of understanding of engines in general here.... Shocking actually.... I have been a rider and race engine builder for over 40 years... And I don't think I have ever seen a group with this complete of a  lack of understanding....

If the symptoms have been described correctly... There was a catastrophic engine failure...

 

 

Yea so you say it’s catastrophic engine failure from the info given so far. Ok . So what.. It’s just a guy giving his initial experience of his bike breaking and sharing. It’s always a bummer when your bike breaks. Some here probably have never worked on a 4 stroke or any bike and some are engine builders like you. But continue telling all of us how much smarter you are and how dumb everyone else is. I know youve told us all how you’re “ doing us all a favor”. Gee thanks . :smirk: 

No matter just wait and stay tuned. You can be thrilled Krans bike had catastrophic failure or maybe it’s something else. Whatever. It will come out in time. 

4 hours ago, THE KRAN said:

A worn out or stuck RING would cause a severe imbalance in crankcase pressure do to blow-by, forcing pressure up into the valve train, and oil out the vent tube.

Broken ring, or possibly you dumped the bike over just right to have oil run through the vent tube into the air box.  I didn't see any mention that you dropped the bike but I've had that happen before, not on a Beta but 4 stroke dirt bikes share a lot of similarities.

I prefer to get a vent filter and block off the port on the airbox so I can see if oil made its way out of the valve cover vent right away instead of finding out later when it's dripping out of the airbox.

Edited by redrider144

Guys, you're arguing about what it could be and frankly the op didn't put much info in the the post.

An easy quick check of a couple of things would eliminate what it might NOT be....didn't say weather it locked up?

However, a Compression check, pull the spark plug check it..... is it dry, wet,....have aluminum deposits on it.....ground it on the cylinder and check for spark.

Could it be a fuel delivery issue?....well there's an easy way to check that.

Pull the valve cover, check for a stuck valve, doesn't take a whole lot to quickly tell you...it needs to come apart.

Oil in the air box isn't uncommon, specially if it's been overfilled and I don't know why guys arn't eliminating that feature and running a straight hose with a filter. 

 

Edited by moto9
1 hour ago, moto9 said:

Guys, you're arguing about what it could be and frankly the op didn't put much info in the the post.

An easy quick check of a couple of things would eliminate what it might NOT be....didn't say weather it locked up?

However, a Compression check, pull the spark plug check it..... is it dry, wet,....have aluminum deposits on it.....ground it on the cylinder and check for spark.

Could it be a fuel delivery issue?....well there's an easy way to check that.

Pull the valve cover, check for a stuck valve, doesn't take a whole lot to quickly tell you...it needs to come apart.

Oil in the air box isn't uncommon, specially if it's been overfilled and I don't know why guys arn't eliminating that feature and running a straight hose with a filter. 

 

Yea well it’s early and guys are jumping to conclusions..

My apologies to those I lashed out at yesterday.

The bike was not over filled on the motor side. It was filled to 1 liter on the trans side.

Ridden the week before 40 miles with no oil spewing.

The bike was not dropped.

The motor was not locked up.

The motor spun with what appeared/sounded like the same rpm as always with estart.

 

Have a nice day.

Edited by THE KRAN

KRAN, eat a snickers, your not you when you’re hungry. 😉

1 hour ago, THE KRAN said:

My apologies to those I lashed out at yesterday.

The bike was not over filled on the motor side. It was filled to 1 liter on the trans side.

Ridden the week before 40 miles with no oil spewing.

The bike was not dropped.

The motor was not locked up.

The motor spun with what appeared/sounded like the same rpm as always with estart.

 

Have a nice day.

That rules out what I was hoping it was.

Edited by redrider144

Kran, very sorry to hear about your bike. As an owner of a 2018 500rrs I'm very interested in what happened. What year is your bike? Still under warranty? 

 

 

 

 

No compression should be an enormous clue ....
Oil dripping out the air filter box is the next massive clue....
If you don't understand the workings of a 4 stroke engine, you could just take some wild guesses... Or you could just make sh!t up....
Pressure that gets by the piston and rings is what would pressurize the crankcase... The area where the cam is located is connected to the crankcase via the timing chain cavity...
Low compression and blowing blue smoke is one thing (oil would blow out airbox here too) .... Sudden loss of compression and oil coming out airbox when none has previously is another thing altogether... Catastrophic engine failure...
 

+1 Agreed & True That
This is not the same thing at all and it’s good to note but there are a bunch of variables. It could be just that the oil was overfilled for example or if he dropped the bike and oil went in the airbox. Or if he had a small crash or other things. 
Lots of times a very common mod is to take out the crankcase vent hose away from connecting to the airbox. On my 525 RS Beta I took out my crankcase hose from being connecting to the airbox. Oil would go in the intake in a fall. It’s an old time mod. Look it up and lots of bikes have done this mod. 
Krans issue isn’t what you linked. I bet that’s a brand new Beta and someone overfilled the oil but idk.. should watch more to see what that Beta rider eventually found out at the end. 
 


And that’s why it has Zero compression I suppose?



I see your on the CRF230 thread a lot. What's your experience with the Beta FI motor? 



 


Does not matter the make or model, could have been a HD Sportster, or a BMW
1 hour ago, adnohguy said:

 


Does not matter the make or model, could have been a HD Sportster, or a BMW

 

For those of us that actually own a 4 stroke, FI Beta,  I think we'll wait and see what happens with the bike at the Beta dealer and how/If the Beta warranty plays into the situation.  As well as any specific information pertaining to our bikes that is pertinent and may be helpful in us preventing this from happening to our Italian high performance motors.  

All of the shade tree mechanics piping in is useless and why someone would try and diagnose an engine problem on a bike they've never seen and know nothing about through a keyboard is ludicrous.  

The OP stated it's at the dealer.  I'm sure KRAN will be kind enough to keep us in the loop with what happened and he's got no reason to apologize as it's incredibly frustrating for your bike to have an issue and everyone telling you what went wrong on the internet.  

13 hours ago, firffighter said:

Please remind me year and model?

His signature says 2016 BETA 430RR Race Edition

1 hour ago, adnohguy said:

 


And that’s why it has Zero compression I suppose?

 

It’s 2 different issues if you read the Facebook link which I think you didn’t or missed .The bike is working great but there’s a concern about loss of oil in the airbox. 

Krannies is a completely different issue. Read both and make your own decisions.. and just wait because the true info will come out anyway.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
Just now, shrubitup said:

His signature says 2016 BETA 430RR Race Edition

Thank you. 

27 minutes ago, firffighter said:

All of the shade tree mechanics piping in is useless and why someone would try and diagnose an engine problem on a bike they've never seen and know nothing about through a keyboard is ludicrous.  

 So the OP made a post describing symptoms hoping that a Beta engineer on the engine design team, and only a person fitting that description, would reply to the thread?

LOL at  @mixxer and @Wild Alaskan being shade tree mechanics.  Mkay.

What are the qualifications that make someone fit to diagnose this?  Do you think your Beta engine was designed and manufactured by elves using magic fairy dust?

What else was the purpose of describing the symptoms of the engine problem?  Just because he's bored and wants to chat with special snowflake Beta owners like you and HDR?

For those of us that actually own a 4 stroke, FI Beta,  I think we'll wait and see what happens with the bike at the Beta dealer and how/If the Beta warranty plays into the situation.  As well as any specific information pertaining to our bikes that is pertinent and may be helpful in us preventing this from happening to our Italian high performance motors.   All of the shade tree mechanics piping in is useless and why someone would try and diagnose an engine problem on a bike they've never seen and know nothing about through a keyboard is ludicrous.   The OP stated it's at the dealer.  I'm sure KRAN will be kind enough to keep us in the loop with what happened and he's got no reason to apologize as it's incredibly frustrating for your bike to have an issue and everyone telling you what went wrong on the internet.  

 

 

 Says the Dude who agrees that it would be best to take his Bike to a Dealer to work on it.

 

Ever heard of the saying :

“do your own work if you want it done right”

 

Oh that’s right obviously you can’t, only the Dealer Is allowed to do all his work. Where all the 20+ year “master mechanics” old are factory trained in the old country.

 

Wouldn’t that make them a “Technician “ if that was the case.

 

Now he says “well it’s under warranty”

 

So “just maybe” it will be done for free ?

But for how long will it last?

 

Maybe find out 5 canyons away from the truck where it can’t be towed out let alone ridden out.

 

Got a helicopter?

 

 

1 minute ago, adnohguy said:

But for how long will it last?
Maybe find out 5 canyons away from the truck where it can’t be towed out let alone rode out.

Got a helicopter?

Yes, we know. Our Italian bikes should all be rounded up and lit afire and then we should head down to the Honda dealer and buy a CRF230F.

Yes, we know. Our Italian bikes should all be rounded up and lit afire and then we should head down to the Honda dealer and buy a CRF230F.


And have the dealer work on it.....
Just now, adnohguy said:

 


And have the dealer work on it.....

In his case the 2016 model is out of warranty. He's prolly having the dealer troubleshoot it. Yes, it's more complicated than a two valve XR200 motor. If he decides to pay the dealer then it's his decision but you seem to imply anything other than your viewpoint is wrong.

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