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Oil injection removal

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1 hour ago, motoxgiant said:

Here's one for you, from the pages of ktmtalk.com

"I have a 300 EXC 6 day TPI - coming from a 350 XCF. The bikes is pure brillance, I think this guys has not had the bike setup correctly from the dealer. My dealer told me it takes them 5 hours to do all the mapping and restriction changes."

Tightening emission standards and the introduction of technology like FI usher in a brave new world, but it won't all be fun.

 

No kidding! Its going to very intersting. Might be the biggest changes to the sport  since who knows when, mono-shock?

A riding partner of mine bought a '17 500exc this Spring took until Feb to get it through emissions and remapping to get it to run correctly.  That's a $10k bike that doesn't run until dealer spends forever attempting to undo and overcome restrictions so tight a 500cc bike rides like a pee shooter.  

This same gut is replacing his  2005 KTM 450exc with over 25k on it! Think we'll ever see that kind of engine building again from any of these manumanufacturers? 

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Here is a 75 hr + exhaust port on my 250RR. The piston dome and head look super clean as well. Compression over 200 PSI as was when built. Again, 36:1 Amsoil and good jetting.

IMG_1441.jpg

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MOTUL from 25-1 to 50-1 
MOTOREX from 40-1 to 60-1
AMSOIL SABER from 80-1 to 100-1 
 

You just decide ratio according to oil manufacturers recommendations?

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1 hour ago, GP said:

Here is a 75 hr + exhaust port on my 250RR. The piston dome and head look super clean as well. Compression over 200 PSI as was when built. Again, 36:1 Amsoil and good jetting.

IMG_1441.jpg

Installed the NECW needle tonight, wow, nice change, I go for a ride tomorrow. Are you using Interceptor or Dominator? I've got 3 gallons of misc oil to get through :busted: and then I'll be ready to get some Amsoil. :thinking:

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11 hours ago, shrubitup said:

Installed the NECW needle tonight, wow, nice change, I go for a ride tomorrow. Are you using Interceptor or Dominator? I've got 3 gallons of misc oil to get through :busted: and then I'll be ready to get some Amsoil. :thinking:

Dominator.   Higher flash point oil exits the motor without burning and forming deposits.  An S/A will always trap oil mist in the exhaust stream and drool, where a straight silencer is clean everything else being the same. 

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11 hours ago, GP said:

Dominator.   Higher flash point oil exits the motor without burning and forming deposits.  An S/A will always trap oil mist in the exhaust stream and drool, where a straight silencer is clean everything else being the same. 

Agreed, particularly on the S/A and the drool.

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Agreed x2. Despite my NEDH equipped, GP tuned jetting I still get some spooge with the shorty Q stealth silencer. With that said, the bike is running great with zero bogs / sputter and has instance throttle response. Super happy with its performance. Funny thing is I get a lot less spooge than I did with the oil injection and jetting to the Beta charts. I have been running Motul 710 since I got the bike and am running 36:1 now that I’m pre mixing.

 

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I just read this thread and I would like to verify the claims by GP and motoxgiant.

All the bikes are coming from the factory with the 'homologation' setting that being the super mysterious jetting, the catalytic exhaust, the exhaust fresh air injection and nowadays the restricted-paper element air filter.

Similarly, that was the case with carb'd 4 strokes where you had to remove throttle limiter (a spacer on top of the slide) some plugs etc.

Regarding the 2-strokes, this is happenning from day one ie the first 2013 models.

You have to understand that this a nonsense jetting which allow the factory to sell bikes while complying with EURO emissions. If you could have access to check the type approval of each model you would be surprised by the stated output power. Usually is around 7-8 Kw (multiply by 1.36 to get the HP number) and this is with all restrictions. On Euro bikes, there is a white tab in the steering stem behind the headlight where all this is written (together with VIN). Obviously I don't know if US bikes carry this label.

How do I know all this?

I have been a great BETA unboxer (current term used by idiot marketing people) as I was a country importer from 2010 to 2015 (left the company for personal reasons) and I have uncrated anything Beta between an ARC 50 to an RR520 (but none with a KTM engine). Whoever needs a 4st catalyst or turn signals or r/v cheap mirrors can pm me, I will always have few in my garage...:lol: All this are also necessary to get license plates....

So don't refer to the euro setting, it doesn't exists. Its the 'I can sell and you replace as soon as you buy' setting.

Also if you insist using OI (like I did - I grew up with Yamaha DT200) be sure to upgrade your condenser to 2018 (haven't done it yet but will) and check periodically both the condenser and the diodes plug.

As perhaps one of the latest victims of the above mentioned system, I believe that before the pump gets old, its the cigarette-paper thin insulation of the 2 plugs that will produce a cylinder like mine (looks like it propelled Columbia space bus to Mars and back to Earth).....

.......................

PS: it would be a big mistake by me to forgot to mention once again the warranty cover that Beta offers which is second to none. 

As long as I ride and as long as there are some great people in the factory, it will be very hard for me to ride another brand. And no, I didn't get a special service as the above level of service is well documented from many riders around the world. 

Edited by dirtbird
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Thanks for that post, and sorry you found out the truth about the OI.  

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I want to keep the oil injection on my 2016 300rr, but the TT computer is still draining batteries - installed the "improved" capacitor and diodes about ten rides ago. Does anyone know if the drain is from the wire that gets cut?

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Finally after a couple rides where I ensured that my OI system works, decided to remove it. 

I want to work with my jetting and don't like to have in the back of my head second thoughts.

For now is a temporary removal, mostly a disconnection. I have replaced the reed inlet manifold, rerouted and blocked the oil feed line back to the air box and plugged a resistance (supplied by Beta) to the oil pump harness (so the speedo idiot light stays off). Still have to empty the oil tank... 

Later as the winter comes, I will remove the reservoir-pump combo but this work requires tearing up the subframe which I don't like doing (unless I am getting paid for it). 

Steady 2% from now on.... 

IMG_20180906_203629.jpg

IMG_20180906_203712.jpg

IMG_20180906_204607.jpg

Edited by dirtbird

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1 hour ago, loynz said:

I want to keep the oil injection on my 2016 300rr, but the TT computer is still draining batteries - installed the "improved" capacitor and diodes about ten rides ago. Does anyone know if the drain is from the wire that gets cut?

The TT speedo on these bikes is basically a TT Endurance II in a red case with additional lights, wires, and connectors for the Beta-specific warning and signal lights.  If you read an Endurance II installation guide you'll see that these instruments are made to be connected to the bike's 12V battery full time, and that they won't drain the 12V battery.  The little CR2032 button battery is only intended to preserve the values in speedo memory.

But instead Beta opted to connect the speedo power wire to the stator-powered circuit, which means that the speedo is only externally powered when the bike's engine is running. This also means that coasting, rolling the bike, or pushing any speedo buttons with the engine off will cause the speedo to operate off of that little button battery, which is quickly depleted.

I got tired of replacing them in my 2016 Xtrainer over a year ago and wired the factory speedo wire directly to the bike's 12v battery.  This also meant I had to disconnect it from the stator-powered circuit, as these two circuits are separated by the infamous diode pack.  I haven't had to replace a CR2032 battery since I did this mod in June 2017.  Over last winter my bike sat in the garage for 3 months and there was no noticeable drain on the 12v battery.

Below is what I did.  The red line is a new wire from the 12+ side of the battery, installed to a 1/4" quick-connect terminal just past the main fuse.  The blue lines represent where I cut and covered the previous stator-powered wire.

2016_x10.jpg

FWIW the 4700uF capacitor and diodes don't have anything to do with going through the CR2032 batteries.

The diodes serve as one-way electrical "valves" to permit the 12v battery to recharge after it operates the starter motor.  (The starter motor is the only device connected directly to the 12v battery. Everything else on the bike runs from stator power.)

The capacitor serves as an electrical filter to clean up electrical noise in the stator-powered circuit caused by varying engine RPM and electrical loads.

The Trail Tech Endurance II is built to operate in the range of 9.0-55VDC/9.0-400VAC, so voltage variances on this bike shouldn't matter for speedo operation.

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1 hour ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

Removing the tank improves airflow and will change the jetting a little. Take the 15 minutes to remove it now if you plan on dialing the jetting.

I know you are right about this. 

Removing is easier than installing.... 

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4 hours ago, wwguy said:

The TT speedo on these bikes is basically a TT Endurance II in a red case with additional lights, wires, and connectors for the Beta-specific warning and signal lights.  If you read an Endurance II installation guide you'll see that these instruments are made to be connected to the bike's 12V battery full time, and that they won't drain the 12V battery.  The little CR2032 button battery is only intended to preserve the values in speedo memory.

But instead Beta opted to connect the speedo power wire to the stator-powered circuit, which means that the speedo is only externally powered when the bike's engine is running. This also means that coasting, rolling the bike, or pushing any speedo buttons with the engine off will cause the speedo to operate off of that little button battery, which is quickly depleted.

I got tired of replacing them in my 2016 Xtrainer over a year ago and wired the factory speedo wire directly to the bike's 12v battery.  This also meant I had to disconnect it from the stator-powered circuit, as these two circuits are separated by the infamous diode pack.  I haven't had to replace a CR2032 battery since I did this mod in June 2017.  Over last winter my bike sat in the garage for 3 months and there was no noticeable drain on the 12v battery.

Below is what I did.  The red line is a new wire from the 12+ side of the battery, installed to a 1/4" quick-connect terminal just past the main fuse.  The blue lines represent where I cut and covered the previous stator-powered wire.

2016_x10.jpg

FWIW the 4700uF capacitor and diodes don't have anything to do with going through the CR2032 batteries.

The diodes serve as one-way electrical "valves" to permit the 12v battery to recharge after it operates the starter motor.  (The starter motor is the only device connected directly to the 12v battery. Everything else on the bike runs from stator power.)

The capacitor serves as an electrical filter to clean up electrical noise in the stator-powered circuit caused by varying engine RPM and electrical loads.

The Trail Tech Endurance II is built to operate in the range of 9.0-55VDC/9.0-400VAC, so voltage variances on this bike shouldn't matter for speedo operation.

Wow....Thanks for all the great info, wwguy! Do you know if the upgrade cap & diodes do anything better than the oem parts they replaced? I'm going to tap into the 12v constant wire (orange) for the starter button on the clutch side of all the wires behind the headlight. 

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26 minutes ago, loynz said:

Wow....Thanks for all the great info, wwguy! Do you know if the upgrade cap & diodes do anything better than the oem parts they replaced? 

The newer parts are just better sealed against moisture etc.  The internal electronic diodes and capacitor are still the same basic electronic components originally designed for printed circuit board applications. (Thus the solid conductor leads that are prone to periodically breaking.)

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11 hours ago, dirtbird said:

Finally after a couple rides where I ensured that my OI system works, decided to remove it. 

I want to work with my jetting and don't like to have in the back of my head second thoughts.

For now is a temporary removal, mostly a disconnection. I have replaced the reed inlet manifold, rerouted and blocked the oil feed line back to the air box and plugged a resistance (supplied by Beta) to the oil pump harness (so the speedo idiot light stays off). Still have to empty the oil tank... 

Later as the winter comes, I will remove the reservoir-pump combo but this work requires tearing up the subframe which I don't like doing (unless I am getting paid for it). 

Steady 2% from now on.... 

IMG_20180906_203629.jpg

IMG_20180906_203712.jpg

IMG_20180906_204607.jpg

 

What did you do with the TPS?

Boanos have this: http://www.betaboano.com/cgi-bin/archivio/Tappo_sostituzione_TPS_2351.asp

I don't understand why it's so different to the small plug form Beta USA: https://shop.betausa.com/p/oil-injection-removal-kit

 

I like that plug for the pump connector. It's much better than my five layers of electrical tape over the connector. :)

 

I'm at 60h with the OI disconnected, and I have no complaints. 

Bike rips, and most important to me, throttle response is predictable at all speeds. 

What do you plan to do with the jetting? Is your main setting for sea-level altitude?  

 

Edited by Balkan boy

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