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Next steps in building more "Snappy Power" ...???

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  Someone once said; "If you can't counter your adversary's argument all is not lost. You can always say vile things about him". Oh, and that Summers guy, I got passed by him in the woods at a hare scrambles back in the early 90's. Almost stepped off my bike at 25 miles an hour to see why it quit.  ;)

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SCOTT SUMMERS!!! ... man that dude was my idol back when I was still racing... I sure miss my XR600!!!!

 

 

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1 hour ago, VortecCPI said:

I agree, even though they often make less sense than some of the nonsense written in here by visitors...

My wife on the 883 and my niece on my father's old 1974 Lavera 750SF and a cool old XR1000 and XR1200 just because they are so rare...

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Dude! Your niece is, how you say, BeeeeeaUtiful! She single? :thumbsup:😁

Btw, someone needs to put some air in that back tire. Don't ask why I even noticed that lol 

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On 08/12/2017 at 6:09 AM, Daniel627 said:

Couldn't understand a word of that, but I'd love to have that bike! 

Me too, but I am guessing that is is developed more for Motocross than trail riding. 

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6 hours ago, VortecCPI said:

Likely the only thing dumber than throwing a few bucks at a CRF230 would be putting an old 84/85 short-stroke, big-bore, twin-carb RFVC engine in a 2T MX chassis like this poor fool.  What a moron...

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Or maybe racing an XR600 with low CR like this idiot Scott Summers.  As if he could even TRY to be competitive with such a heavy underpowered junk-metal-framed bike like that piece of garbage!

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In one pic you have a bike somebody liked, and they swapped in an engine that does what they like.  That happens to be exactly what im suggesting the OP should do.

In the other pic, you have a guy who raced with a bone stock bike and bone stock engine.

In neither picture do you see them dropping proportionately large amounts of money in an attempt to turn an engine into something that it doesnt want to be.  I am not sure how you think this post supports your idea that throwing money at the crf230 engine is the most cost effective way for the OP to accomplish his goal for his son's bike.  

Btw i ride a plated xr600r, and ive raced a bone stock crf230f in a harescramble in B class.  Reconsider whatever it is that you think I don't know.  

If you like the challenge of modifying the crf230 engine, then fair enough.  That is a hobby within itself.  But if the goal is to maximize hp/$, then its worth while to investigate an engine swap.  

Same goes for suspension.  If you want to maximize suspension performance gained per dollar spent, a USD fork swap is to be seriously considered.  

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9 hours ago, WERNER1 said:

 

Mustang Vs. Camaro ..?

The correct answer is:  Mustang with a camaro engine.  

Take the chasis you want, and power it with the engine that you want.  

The money it takes to make a mustang as fast as a camaro costa more than just putting a camaro engine in it and selling the mustang engine to somebody who blew theirs up after dropping $$ and hopping it up too much.  

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6 hours ago, Daniel627 said:

Dude! Your niece is, how you say, BeeeeeaUtiful! She single? :thumbsup:😁

Btw, someone needs to put some air in that back tire. Don't ask why I even noticed that lol 

She's a wonderful person and the daughter of a Marine -- Very proud of my brother in each case.  That old Laverda is long gone -- Snatched up and restored by another rider.  My father restored the engine but never really found the time to do the rest.  My guess is only the engine really interested him and the rest was just a burden.

I bought my father a BMW F650GS and traded it for his Yamaha SRX600 so he could still ride.  He has been riding most of his life and still does at 77 years of age.  He is the one who helped us do more with less and got us away from 2Ts and on to a stripped down XL125.  The XL didn't stand a chance in a drag race but on the trails and in the woods it gave the 2T bikes fits, especially when there were hill climbs involved.  Of course him being an ex-racer/tuner (amateur) and GM Millwright (expert) helped a lot.  We were very lucky to have such a good and willing mentor and father.  I remember him showing us the old Powroll catalogs and just drooling over all of Pete's stuff.

My father has old slides filled with drag cars and bikes so i will have to see if he has scanned any more recently.  Here is one of him on his old custom Triumph with my brother on the back.  Now THAT was a cool ride for sure and it had a lot of engine work.

66 Triumph.jpg

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1 hour ago, dirtjumpordie said:

The correct answer is:  Mustang with a camaro engine.  

Take the chasis you want, and power it with the engine that you want.  

The money it takes to make a mustang as fast as a camaro costa more than just putting a camaro engine in it and selling the mustang engine to somebody who blew theirs up after dropping $$ and hopping it up too much.  

Lots of Mustangs at the strip with Chevy power, especially the old Fox-body versions.  Chevy power is definitely affordable as compared to most others.  My buddy did a few AMC and MOPAR builds but they were exceedingly expensive.  I saw an old Boss 429 on the street this summer...  Talk about rare and expensive...

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1 hour ago, VortecCPI said:

 

Lots of Mustangs at the strip with Chevy power, especially the old Fox-body versions.  Chevy power is definitely affordable as compared to most others.  My buddy did a few AMC and MOPAR builds but they were exceedingly expensive.  I saw an old Boss 429 on the street this summer...  Talk about rare and expensive...

I understand Exceedingly expensive to build extra HP, that's why my M5 is still stock. Aftermarket stuff is way expensive for it. Considered doing an LS swap, a lot easier and cheaper to get 1000hp out of one than than trying to get 700 on the BMW motor. 

That's awesome your dad always rode and enjoyed building bikes. My dad hadn't had a bike since around when I was born, he finally got one when he acquired my uncle's Harley after he died. Glad he finally got back to riding, and I know he is too. 

There's an old guy here that's I think 83 now, still rides an ElectraGlide. Thing's a monster, and he handles it like he's in his 50's. He's a hoot for sure!

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10 minutes ago, Daniel627 said:

I understand Exceedingly expensive to build extra HP, that's why my M5 is still stock. Aftermarket stuff is way expensive for it. Considered doing an LS swap, a lot easier and cheaper to get 1000hp out of one than than trying to get 700 on the BMW motor. 

That's awesome your dad always rode and enjoyed building bikes. My dad hadn't had a bike since around when I was born, he finally got one when he acquired my uncle's Harley after he died. Glad he finally got back to riding, and I know he is too. 

There's an old guy here that's I think 83 now, still rides an ElectraGlide. Thing's a monster, and he handles it like he's in his 50's. He's a hoot for sure!

My brother and I were exceedingly fortunate and our father's interests rubbed off on us in a big way, including his ethics and morals and strange sense of humor.

Back in 2000 my wife had a new Corvette with LS-1 and I was driving a 1997 SLP SS Camaro #2459 (Ed Hamburger's not GM's).  Both had 3.42s with six speed and both of us can use a clutch and throw a stick.  The SS had the last of the reverse-cooled LT-1s with higher CR and better cam.  It was only available that year and was rated at 310 HP while the Corvette LS-1 was rated at 347 HP.

My SS had every SLP option except LT-4 because I missed the window.  Darn on that.  I later added a computer but otherwise stock.  Anyhow...

LS-1 VERY torquey down low and good right to rev limiter -- Very linear in power delivery.  LS-1 weaker down low but more mid-to-top.  Cars lined up side-by-side with no traction control on Corvette...  LS-1 SS gets hole-shot and 60-foot win but Corvette goes by at about 90 MPH.  While the SS surely made more than 310 HP the new LS-1 engine was far superior and they are very good engines.

That old SS was a boat-load of fun but the Tor-Sen differential often sent it off in strange directions when the wheels abruptly changed traction, especially around turns.

3,650-pound car running 13.6 with only 310 HP?  Not likely just as the LT-4 running 13.20 with only 330 HP is not likely.  The LS-1 Corvettes were no faster than the LT-4 Corvettes so the LT-4 was much closer to 350 HP.

Little LS breathes like a true big block...

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17 hours ago, dirtjumpordie said:

I swear its a different breed in this particular section of Thumpertalk.  You guys are REALLY REALLY DENSE. 

You clearly haven't been around here long enough.  The CRF230F is simply THE greatest woods bike ever made.  Not only is it the easiest bike on the planet to ride, but it has a magical ability to traverse obstacles that no KDX, XR, CRF-X, KTM, Husky, Beta, Sherco, GasGas, or really any other enduro bike that makes up 99%+ of the market, would even consider attempting.  The only reason Jarvis, Roman, Gomez, Young, or Webb don't ride CRF230's is because no one has told them about how awesome they are.  Get the word out, and I'm 100% confident that you'll see a 230 atop a Redbull Hard Enduro podium in no time.

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But, despite all this bickering, don't let this distract you from the fact that in 1966, Al Bundy scored four touchdowns in a single game while playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Johnson High School, including the game-winning touchdown in the final seconds against his old nemesis, "Spare Tire" Dixon.

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5 hours ago, dirtjumpordie said:

In one pic you have a bike somebody liked, and they swapped in an engine that does what they like.  That happens to be exactly what im suggesting the OP should do.

In the other pic, you have a guy who raced with a bone stock bike and bone stock engine.

In neither picture do you see them dropping proportionately large amounts of money in an attempt to turn an engine into something that it doesnt want to be.  I am not sure how you think this post supports your idea that throwing money at the crf230 engine is the most cost effective way for the OP to accomplish his goal for his son's bike.  

Btw i ride a plated xr600r, and ive raced a bone stock crf230f in a harescramble in B class.  Reconsider whatever it is that you think I don't know.  

If you like the challenge of modifying the crf230 engine, then fair enough.  That is a hobby within itself.  But if the goal is to maximize hp/$, then its worth while to investigate an engine swap.  

Same goes for suspension.  If you want to maximize suspension performance gained per dollar spent, a USD fork swap is to be seriously considered.  

Summers on his Xr600 would do circles around you even today. Swap another engine in a 230 your clearly out of it. You talk only HP numbers nothing about bottom end witch a KDX 220 has none. Bring a KDX220 on our rides you go back home humbled,or get hurt trying.

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I read somewhere that Scott Summers didn't like HC piston because it added too much engine braking and threw off his timing.  My buddy raced XR600 way back and he said Scott would go by him and all the others as if they were just standing still.  Talk about a guy who could do a lot with a heavy under-powered bike by many measurements and standards.

I always really enjoyed riding the XL600 and XR600.  Heavy yes but all that wonderful seemingly-endless torque.  Leave it in one gear and just ride.  Used to ride 83 twin-carb XL600 in the woods.  Such a blast when a smart-A$$ would come over talking smack about how "drag-race fast" his MX bike was.  Right...  Pretty sure my brother was running just above 8.5s in the eighth with that old XL600.  It was jetted with opened exhaust and he was VERY light and had no fear.  Lots of big fun smokey burnouts...

Edited by VortecCPI
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Speaking of twin carb'd XR's...

This was the first one I had,.. I restored it around 1995.... ended up selling it to my brother in law who destroyed it ... :( hard to believe that was over 20 years ago!

 

 

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One of the two 1984 Al Baker XR265s we had...  Broken down into pieces and shipped from NY to CA via Greyhound bus.  They were both shipped to CA over  winter and then re-assembled the following spring.  Talk about an awesome Christmas present!  Every part they worked on had a Serial Number engraved on it.  One of the reasons I like the CRF230 is because it is dimensionally very close to the 84/85 XR200/XR250 chassis of this old bike.  The short wheel base made it twitchy at high speeds but it really helped in the short tight stuff.

Engine work was $947.15 in 1990 dollars which is $1,933.81 in today's dollars.

Shock work was $206.23 in 1990 dollars which is $399.29 in today's dollars.

Good thing we had a whole lot of spare bucks way back then...

It is still running - Used Mobil 1 auto oil as does current owner.

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Edited by VortecCPI
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25 minutes ago, WERNER1 said:

Speaking of twin carb'd XR's...

This was the first one I had,.. I restored it around 1995.... ended up selling it to my brother in law who destroyed it ... :( hard to believe that was over 20 years ago!

 

Beautiful old bike.  What head pipes were on that thing?

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