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DRZ400Sm Kickstart Install Remarks

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Here are some observations regarding my kickstart kick install on a 2016 SM.

1) The 2 retainer screws were ridiculously tight and had soft heads.  Even after reading repeatedly about this known issue did nothing to help.  With both screws on the retainer I sprayed with Break-Free the night before, I used my heat gun for minutes and minutes with EACH screw, and I used an impact driver.  Golfers at the Masters in a sudden-death playoff spend less time selecting a club then I did in choosing the right driver bit for this task.  I was ready.  I still managed to strip one of the two screws and used my TAP set to extract it.  Those lil’ b’tards have to be JIS screws. 

Retainer.GIF.147f125d943392554cdd187263b81e00.GIF

(note proper retaining bracket orientation and how the X of the screws’ drive heads are assuming their true forms: upside down crucifixes.)

The only thing I thought of that I didn’t try was to (lightly!) coat the heads with nail hardener (like yo mama uses) and let it cure first prior to loosening.  Of course, you would need to replace those screws once removed as you wouldn’t want that chemical to melt off and mosey around your engine once you fired the bike up and the screws were irrigated with hot oil.

Bottom Line:  have backup screws [ part # 02122-0616A ] on hand and be prepared to tap. Removing the right footpeg gives a better angle of attack on the lower LEFTscrew.  If you’ve never extracted a screw before by tap-ing, don’t make this your maiden voyage.  Find an experienced wrenchologist.

2) BIKE ORIENTATION FOR INSTALL I installed my kit with my bike upright secured with tie-downs on my lift stand/jack.  Most installs I’ve seen have been with the bike laid down on its side.  Doing it upright <hee hee> came in handy when I had to drill for the screw extraction as it helped keep little metal drill shavings out of the case.  (You still need to create a barrier using paper toweling around your drill sites to keep flying bits of screw shrapnel from making into your exposed case.)  Keeping the bike upright lessened the exposure for dropping anything down in the nether reaches you will never reach in the bowels of your crankcase.

Also, the bike wept oil for days and I was able to wick a lot of this dirty stuff out of the bottom of the crankcase over this time.  (There will also be a few bonus drops of coolant from where the case would meet the water pump.)  It is the most complete oil removal I have ever done (there were multiple ounces) and I doubt I could have accomplished it with the bike on its side. I only came across 2 small particles in the dirty oil that hadn’t made it to a plug magnet or the oil filter so that was encouraging.

Installing the case gasket was probably more challenging with it upright.  I aligned it on the case cover with my fingers over a couple of bolts I fished through, then attached both gasket and cover simultaneously for the win.

3) REMARKS ON DRZ400 FIXES I did three recommended fixes while I had the bike drained with the cases off:

Waterpump RTV fix.  The snap ring pliers bought for the kickstart shaft came in super handy.  I used a heavy plastic spoon that I trimmed to fit to help remove the ceramic impeller shaft seal. My original waterpump housing o-ring [ 17435-29F00 ] seemed swollen and would not want to seat, so I’m glad I had a second one on hand.

Counterbalancer nut.  My torque wrenches are reversible and my nut was on there snug with about 38-40 lbft before it came loose.  [Manual says 36]  I did the Loctite fix and tightened to 36lbft.

Primary nut.  Set for 70 lbft to remove – snug.  Set for 80lbft – snug. Set for 90lbft – still snug.  Set for 100 lbft and it still wouldn’t budge.  Used Green (penetrating) Loctite and called it a day as it is on there for good.  (Like many other post-2013 owners have found with starter clutch bolts and other bolts – they’re on there for the long haul.)

4) EXHAUST HEATSHIELD COMPATIBILITY I have the full Yoshimura RS/2 competition exhaust and I had to remove the heat shield in order to accommodate the kickstart lever. There are only a couple of millimeters of clearance between the lever and the pipe itself.  This was odd as I have seen pics on the internet of guys with Yosh pipes with Yosh heatshields that had no clearance problems with their kickstart levers.  Maybe they modded their heatshields or something?

 

 

 

5) Final Remarks:

-Use Mr. Cobb’s DRZ400 kickstart install guide and the Ewetube video by the FLB Club.  Both very handy.

-Make sure you budget time to let your Loctite and RTV silicone cure before adding fluids let alone starting. (The 24-hour MINIMUM will be one of the longest waits of your life.)  

-Also, if you’ve never kicked a bike to life before, have your heavyweight boots on in case you pull a rookie move with your new starting technique.  Getting your newbie calf “lever-whipped” if your foot slips off would be no fun.

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I didn't have any problems with the screws,  I had to pull  it apart three times though.   I missed a spring the first time,  then busted one of the prongs on the clutch basket the second time.    So after waiting 2 weeks for parts and the correct tools it went together great and haven't had any problems with it since.    

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On 12/15/2017 at 9:41 AM, RaceAir said:

Those lil’ b’tards have to be JIS screws. 

Your right they are, as are every other screw on your bike.

Next time , try grinding 1~1.5mm off the end of your cross tip driver you use in the impact screw driver.
I have not striped out an original screw in years, many dozen DRZ engine builds. and hundreds of other Japanese bikes.
I've been trying for years to get Snap On to make JIS driver bits, but they insist there is no reason to or market for.

As to checking TQ in reverse... 3 points. Brake away TQ on a fastener does not = what it was TQ'ed to in most all cases. Most TQ wrenches are not accurate in both directions, even if capable. And the point has always been, its not that every one is loose or not TQ'ed properly out of the factory, its that one may have been missed at the factory or a previous owner, shop may not have thraead locked those fastners when they did some work after the bike left the factory.  You can find out when it comes loose in use, or you can do a simple reliability "fix" and never find out the hard way.
Smart of you to just do the fix....now you know, it wont be yours 

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While my smaller tq wrench is not so accurate  when unfastening, my beefy one is really close.  I like the idea of bit grinding to achieve a JIS profile.   

As for recommended torque/loctite fixes,  I have been more than pleasantly  surprised that my 2016 SM w/ 6,500 miles is always in spec (or is found to already possess thread locker).   In reading TT posts,  it seems that 95% of failures or out of tolerance  bikes for the torque /loctite fix areas are 2009 and earlier.   Rarely do you see anyone on you tube posting a vid on 2014 and later bikes with a prob in those areas. A little of that reduction is due to it already being covered by an earlier model year poster,  but people like to moan and you'd  think you'd  see more. 

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Thanks Erik, I got all my phillips screws out with a standard phillips bit.  I guess I was lucky.  I did destroy the end of one, though.  I thought it was the screw, but I lost the end of the bit, very scary, but luckily, I had more.

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8 hours ago, Erik Marquez said:

 Brake away TQ on a fastener does not = what it was TQ'ed to in most all cases. 

True, even with a beam torque wrench 

Edited by habs

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For anyone doing this in the future, an old trick to avoid camming is to put a bit of valve lapping compound on the tip of the bit.  It can help an amazing amount.

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My rule for cross head screw removal, is to press in harder than you turn. It takes some practice but it stops the tip climbing out of the cross which is when the strip occurs most times. Unless the screw is complete junk in which case it just rips all the tags off giving you a nice tapered hole to start drilling.

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51 minutes ago, MotardMadKiwi said:

My rule for cross head screw removal, is to press in harder than you turn. It takes some practice but it stops the tip climbing out of the cross which is when the strip occurs most times. Unless the screw is complete junk in which case it just rips all the tags off giving you a nice tapered hole to start drilling.

You are on the correct track there,  for all the above, never proceed if there is any tiny bit of fastener damage where you engage a Phillips.  It is time to do a search on "1/2 in. Drive Manual Hand Impact Driver"  Not an air hammer impact, but a hand held device you strike with a hammer.  I always used Industrial Phillips bits that were a socket drive on the back 3/8" and good old #2 Phillips.  Specifically made by Apex, and no others when all day professional air impacting.   Tap the bit into the slot where it will be tight as can be and stay forever.  Take the hand impact holding the nose-piece (in my case with a 1/2 to 3/8 adapter installed) and turning the body to the left to preset it to remove.  Engage the square drive while maintaining the turned to left with no more ability to turn left and hold on tight.    Take your favorite 2+ lb. Machinist Ball Peen hammer and give it a serious dead on single bang with no followups unless you go back to step 1 insert and secure the bit.  But the truth is it always will come out strike 1 as long as you did not play games stripping it out beyond any hope.  Those in the picture could actually be installed and removed with this method 10 more times.  As long as you only used the hammer tool.   Look it up, it is the cheapest cordless impact that your grandfather owned and you never knew.  

An industrial supply fastener expert or a fastener supply store can obtain a matching bolt in the metric thread size you need with a flat head and have it on site in no more than a couple of days.  The only caveat is there probably is a minimum order of 10 but my last 8mmm x 60mm SS screws like this came out to about $11.00.   At your convenience sometime before you put it together buy whatever size bottle of Blue Loctite you can afford, it has a decade long shelf life and is essential on anything not a stud, bearing, over 22mm or under 4mm.   While going industrial look for the Loctite AntiSieze silver paste food conveyor system approved compound and never install a spark-plug, exhaust or Automotive Wheel Lug Nut without it EVER!.

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Yep, what he said above.  The hammer impact driver will save the phillips head most every time.  If I put a screwdriver on it and it won't budge the little impact driver and my 5lb hammer knock them loose every time, with no damage to the head of the screw.  I used it on my kickstart install and also have had to use it on the chainguard screws on the swingarm occasionally.

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What I figured out while working for Yamaha through out the 70s, The only way I had any luck removing a tapered flat head screw was to take my Philips head bit, that is bit only not screw driver and place it in the screw head and smack it once hard strait in and almost always i could then back it out by hand provided it has not been locktited in, if Loctite good luck. In the 70s most At, Ct, Dt, and Rt's there Magnito Backing plates were all held on with tapered flat head screws trust me I destroyed many before I figured this proses out. The reason this works is that the tapered part of the screw has a large surface area and that surface tension needs to be broken.

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On 12/16/2017 at 4:53 PM, DHix said:

What I figured out while working for Yamaha through out the 70s, The only way I had any luck removing a tapered flat head screw was to take my Philips head bit, that is bit only not screw driver and place it in the screw head and smack it once hard strait in and almost always i could then back it out by hand provided it has not been locktited in, if Loctite good luck. In the 70s most At, Ct, Dt, and Rt's there Magnito Backing plates were all held on with tapered flat head screws trust me I destroyed many before I figured this proses out. The reason this works is that the tapered part of the screw has a large surface area and that surface tension needs to be broken.

You are absolutely correct, although I banged my bit in to seat it fully prior to hand hammer impact I utilize the remove surface tension by hitting the fastener under tension without harming the threads with a hammer all the time.  It is logical that while tight the screw is making contact on all the upper surfaces and striking it as you state releases the tension on top.  It really works well all by itself and I utilize that method prior to any other trickery 1st thing.  Just everyone else do not ever strike a bolt on the threaded end ever and never ever any kind of shaft or spindle.  As a note for the bad with hammer crowd if you don't already have one you need a metric thread file before you have a little flat spot on any part of a threaded round.   Just lookup Metric Thread File or buy a lisle in the special tools aisle next time in PepBoys and read the instructions.  It has 8 different thread pitches and can fix any self inflicted dings which you would be unwise to force past its corresponding fastener threads. 

 

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On 12/15/2017 at 11:24 AM, Erik Marquez said:

I've been trying for years to get Snap On to make JIS driver bits, but they insist there is no reason to or market for.


Even though practically every "phillips screw" we see here in the US is actually a JIS screw.... Motion Pro sells JIS bits. I ordered JIS screw drivers and bits off of eBay quite a while ago since no tool shop around here had them. Sadly most didn't even know what they were.

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20 minutes ago, OhioYJ said:


Even though practically every "phillips screw" we see here in the US is actually a JIS screw.... Motion Pro sells JIS bits. I ordered JIS screw drivers and bits off of eBay quite a while ago since no tool shop around here had them. Sadly most didn't even know what they were.

Unfortunately those bits don't fit my impact screw driver.
And its really simple to modify a Phillips to mimic JIS
jis-vs-philips.jpg.dbe6668200ea2f7190ff5587bf3383e4.jpg


 

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