Disclaimer here: I have been very happy with my 2015 Sachs open cartridge forks with normal setup and no re-valving. The sky is not falling for me. I am well aware that Beta is the current EnduroGP champion on what appears to be stock forks. It is also worth noting that Beta now offers a variety of "Factory" upgrades through BYOB or direct.

  It seems the knock on the Sachs is the standard setup in some cases, and the lack of accessible replacement parts and knowledge when you get deep into them, and some reports of premature wear in the upper legs (the jury is out on this) which appears to have been addressed on '18's. The level of technology on the Sachs is limited with no current usage of coatings or more complex valving systems, which also places them at a lower price point. The question for many has been whether to upgrade the Sachs (with a question mark on upper leg durability) or just start over with something else.

Several years after Sachs took the place of the Marzocchi's in the Race Editions, there is a much larger knowledge base and many things have been tried, from complete swaps to Frankenforks which are a combination of components from several types of forks. There are several complete aftermarket replacement solutions and a multitude of tuners.

 Most recently, the realization that Beta Sachs fork lugs will fit on KYB lower tubes has created the ability to keep the offset and spacing (and front wheel) and triple clamps OEM. http://www.betarider.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2601 The solution creates a new problem in that the internals don't match up from KYB's to the Beta Sachs lugs. The solution so far has been Dal Soggio Sphere internals https://www.dalsoggiorace.com/sphere-hydraulic-cartridge/ which turns into a higher dollar project approaching/exceeding the cost of replacement forks.

 I recently came across a new offering (on ADV Rider) that offers another solution to offering closed cartridge complete kits that come at a reasonable price point of $900. At this price point it is just below Ohlins cartridges or a new set of Sachs CC's, and likely about the same as a full BYOB pro kit https://www.betausa.com/byob/RS/3237/3/#byob-beta-thumbs . There is a dizzying array of choices of how to go about improving front end performance, and one of the reasons is that it is one of the most effective ways to increase overall performance. There is little discussion about the Sachs shocks which seem to have less doubt about them. Since the RR-S models come with OC forks, this is obviously a potential solution for them, and then the price difference between the Racing Editions with the CC's and which model to choose becomes a new question.

This link is to https://www.endurospec.com/store/p30/MXT/Enduro_Spec_Sachs_Cartridge_System.html although MX Tech is the supplier, their website gives less description than what is found here. This kit should be available through any dealer through MX Tech https://mx-tech.com/  N2Dirt https://www.n2dirt.net/ has it  their site also (for KTM's solutions).

A previous thread mentioned these were coming soon

For comparison here is a photo of each.

Sachs-Beta-CC-Fork-1__48714.1485733836.5

 

ohlins%20cartridge1_0.jpg

 

dal.jpg.4e6cb7fcdcaae6c59fd86e6ec774da6f.jpg

 

mxtech.thumb.jpg.5f63d36a7988991cad94f6f8a6b14ddb.jpg

These kits don't come with springs, although the standard springs fit. The MXT kit started as a CC kit for KTM/Husky's with the OC XPLR fork and a spring kit for AER's.

The value equation on MXT's goes up when you realize they come standard with Huck valves and Leaf Spring Midvalves, both of which alone are offered as an upgrade to other forks for about $450.

Suspension is a very gray area subject, there is no definite right or wrong. There are many reviews with differing opinions on the same subject, setting can mean everything.

I hope to see more discussion of technical solutions in a thread that won't be derailed if we are discussing Beta Forks.

 

Edited by Johnny Depp

Looks like a great upgrade, know anyone who has tried them ? Huck valves get very good reviews. 

MM 

It’s a lot different for Beta than 10 yrs ago when there were only 45 zokes and mostly racetech gold valves as an option... not even that maybe..

Thanks for posting up more options.  Now there are almost too many to choose.

I'm kinda surprised more people haven't gone the Ohlins Cartridge route. While it's not cheap by any means, it's not really crazy expensive ether. Seems like it would be a lot simpler and cleaner than adapting other forks to it. 

I just wonder if the action is as good or almost as good as full on Ohlins forks?

Can RR Sachs OC forks be converted to CC forks or do you have to buy whole new CC forks? I have a 17' 300 RR. Curious what my performance upgrade options are as I progress and get more aggressive where fork performance will begin to matter more.

6 minutes ago, rehammer81 said:

Can RR Sachs OC forks be converted to CC forks or do you have to buy whole new CC forks? I have a 17' 300 RR. Curious what my performance upgrade options are as I progress and get more aggressive where fork performance will begin to matter more.

Yes, they are made for OC. Some CC riders may also consider them for the valving opportunities.

5 hours ago, ccullins said:

I'm kinda surprised more people haven't gone the Ohlins Cartridge route. While it's not cheap by any means, it's not really crazy expensive ether. Seems like it would be a lot simpler and cleaner than adapting other forks to it. 

I just wonder if the action is as good or almost as good as full on Ohlins forks?

They are very popular with the KTM riders here,  I've ridden one bike with them and thought they were good no better or worse than my SSS. The rider who owned the bike was bigger heavier and faster than me so the fact they felt ok is a good sign. The main thing for me is there is no harshness after multiple hits and they do that while still resisting bottoming.  I have heard whispers they are more $$$ to maintain.  If you buy the right forks the conversion is pretty cheap and easy, also the SSS is easy to get parts for and service. 

MM 

I used Ohlins cartridges in my WP forks. They were valved incorrectly but still I seen an improvement. However the Ohlins are expensive to maintain and uses special tools for just about everything including clicker adjustments (5mm allen). At this same time I purchased Dal Soggio cartridges and had both laying side by side. Based on visual Dal Soggio are better quality and have a much simpler design which was copied off of WP CC bladders with several improvements. I am now running the Dal Soggio full time and they work really well. Personally if I had a Beta I would go the KYB route as they are less expensive, plenty of knowledge and a easy drop in. Otherwise the Dal Soggio would be my next choice. These are basically a drop-in install, you will need to remove the lover tube from bottom clamp to install the bottom cone. DLC coating at this time is a nice option. I had my Dal Soggio revalved for my riding by Pro Tune here in Ohio. Well worth the time to talk with Cory and can't beat his prices. I just sold my Ohlins and lost my a$$ on them. Resale seems non existent while the Dal Soggio I could have sold easy and close to what I paid for them! Same goes for the KYB's.

Edited by weantright

From what I heard at least a couple years back the Ohlins had high maintenance issues as well.  These Dal Saggio cartridges are crazy $$ but I guess if you can't work out your own KYB fix you pay, so there is a market.  Still, what would concern me is parts and support over time. 

One thing I would do for sure, if your going to invest in high $$ cartridges, get the uppers of the fork they will be installed in hardcoated and start out with all fresh parts.  When anodizng wears and fouls the oil, it starts a cascading effect on the rest of the internals.  I'm going through this now on my buddy's forks, just about everything is worn out.

The wear on my upper and lower tubes is why I didn't go with inserts. I do love kybs. But I am a rebel. Lol

Johnny

You have provided a great dissertation on options as it holds many options for us. Well done!!

But I will disagree with part of it. There are Lots of proven mods for the Sachs OC forks and I believe Race-Tech even sells parts now for them. There are many many top tuners that are providing excellent re-valving. While we will most all agree there are better stuff out there for sure, but for many the 2013+ Sachs OC stuff can be tuned to a point that is pretty damn good.

At least for my deep woods riding style my tuner did a great job from the crappy way mine came from the OEM. And all things being equal it costed peanuts, if I change it will be with SSS stuff....

So IMHO yes 1+2 does = 3 with Sachs OC stuff now......
I know there are many here that can control their stock OC stuff, but quietly I gotta ask, why when it can work a crap load better than the way Beta sent these to us.......

I spent more on fuel to drive from Salt Lake City to California than I spent having my forks revalved.....

Merry merry!
M

5 hours ago, BassMan said:

The wear on my upper and lower tubes is why I didn't go with inserts. I do love kybs. But I am a rebel. Lol

You a rebel for upgrading to Beta race model cc Sachs fork? That’s just a natural common sense smart upgrade to me. Holcombe won 2 championships with those forks ..You have a 2013 right? That sounds great and smart. No need to buy a new bike. . Your bike is still great It’s not too much difference from an 18 .I might just do the same thing but I’m happy with my open chamber  Sachs for now. It’s funny as a bunch talk like oc forks aren’t good. I like them and  It’s not holding me back from winning or placing in my class when I race. The only thing holding me back is me. I’m happy that I have so many upgrade choices if I want later. I can be like you.:ride: I can put newer suspension or just revalve and it’s like having a newer bike.

3 hours ago, Mark-us-B said:

Johnny

You have provided a great dissertation on options as it holds many options for us. Well done!!

But I will disagree with part of it. There are Lots of proven mods for the Sachs OC forks and I believe Race-Tech even sells parts now for them. There are many many top tuners that are providing excellent re-valving. While we will most all agree there are better stuff out there for sure, but for many the 2013+ Sachs OC stuff can be tuned to a point that is pretty damn good.

At least for my deep woods riding style my tuner did a great job from the crappy way mine came from the OEM. And all things being equal it costed peanuts, if I change it will be with SSS stuff....

So IMHO yes 1+2 does = 3 with Sachs OC stuff now......
I know there are many here that can control their stock OC stuff, but quietly I gotta ask, why when it can work a crap load better than the way Beta sent these to us.......

I spent more on fuel to drive from Salt Lake City to California than I spent having my forks revalved.....

Merry merry!
M

Yea. Race tech has mods for oc Sach forks for a while now . I would head that route if I felt my suspension was so lacking. It’s not for what I do . I goldvalved my showas on my cr and goldvalved my zokes on my 525 Beta.  I likedhow they improved my suspension. My cr was dialed in good.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

From what I could find (mostly from Enduro Spec and ktmtalk), the MXT insert is still technically not a twin chamber fork design unlike the Ohlins and Dal Saggio. (After re-reading my emails, I'm still un-clear but the Enduro spec link indicates "dual cartridge")

Edited by basalt
38 minutes ago, basalt said:

From what I could find (mostly from Enduro Spec and ktmtalk), the MXT insert is still technically not a twin chamber fork design unlike the Ohlins and Dal Saggio. (After re-reading my emails, I'm still un-clear but the Enduro spec link indicates "dual cartridge")

I just read a tiny bit just to see what some links are. It’s going to be who really tried any of these options and how did theylike it. Seems like this could be a worse repeat of some ohlins threads.. well maybe not worst. It’s great there are options but who has tried one or are there tests and reviews? The real world element is huge when talking big money to buy. I think some in the Beta threads spend time on stock and some other suspension but who here has a wide grasp on choices of suspension from a wide variety of upgrade choices from different companies? It’s cool and all but its not like any of us know which suspension upgrade is better tan another. Id guess a suspension tuner that’s worked on a wide variety of bikes for many years and worked with a wide variety of aftermarket companies and who is a rider and racer who would know some. That’s some.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

Im really happy with my cc sach forks. Going to get the legs coated and thats it.

Steve has a bunch of parts from me right now to go out for hardcoat.  I'll take some pics when I get them back.  

6 hours ago, GP said:

Steve has a bunch of parts from me right now to go out for hardcoat.  I'll take some pics when I get them back.  

What does hard coating cost you guys ? 

What does hard coating cost you guys ? 

Race tech will do the fork tubes for $250.

Price depends on what type of coating you're doing. Not all shops use the same coating but use the same nomenclature. If I do it again I would look closer at the Teflon hard coat for the uppers.

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