Beta Fork Diaries

[jviz1]

I've had all three forks variety's being discussed here, Sachs OC, Sachs with MXT insert, and now Sachs CC, have put 50 to 200 hours on each setup.
All three were revalved and setup for me by professional, the OC and MXT by the same person.     I was happy with all three during the time i had them.
They were all really good, but if i had to rank them in order, it'd be 'really good (Sachs OC)' - 'better (MXT)' - 'best (CC)'.  The CC just works better over a variety of terrain without readjusting the settings - the other two need tweaks depending on terrain.
But, take my comments with skepticism, as suspension is subjective.

[weantright]

You can't beat a properly set-up CC fork for 99% of riding conditions. Otherwise all the pro's wouldn't be using them from hard endure to GNCC racing.

[hawaiidirtrider]

On 7/26/2019 at 4:25 AM, weantright said:

You can't beat a properly set-up CC fork for 99% of riding conditions. Otherwise all the pro's wouldn't be using them from hard endure to GNCC racing.

Everyone doesn’t have the same objectives and goals as pros do as far as riding and racing.  Some are riding only tight singletrack at average speed or maybe more open trails at average speed or some will never race ever. Some will race mx and be fine with stock suspension.  Some will race sprint enduros and are happy with their suspension setup .  The other thing is open chamber forks setup work great. Is it worth putting a grand to a few thousand dollars more to buy and setup cc forks? Is it worth it for some? No. It’s not. 

[MartyMOOSE]

Funny I was in the shed the other day playing with forks mainly my SSS as they have worn out the inner cartridge after many hours. So building one set of forks out of a few others. For a laugh with my son we got out my std oc fork of my 18 350, set of CC of a YZ250 and a set of SSS off a later yamaha. We pushed down on them just to feel stiction. The Sachs were really really bad they clunk and are noticeably hard to get moving over the other two.  My oc sachs have about 8 hours on them at most. I never really liked my oc Sachs either stock or revalved after feeling this I like them even less. 

Is it worth the upgrade to the CC fork I'd say hell yes. Still going to buy a std RR save $$ and fit my SSS again I think! Bring on 2020 ?

MM 

[MartyMOOSE]

Another set 12hrs 2019 cc fork very poor.

[Odysseus]

33 minutes ago, MartyMOOSE said:

Another set 12hrs 2019 cc fork very poor.

     I would have little concern about wear in that area shown if it was my fork.I'm on my third 30 hour oil change on my CC's and though the oil was a little dark there was really very little residue in the oil. What I saw looked more like a mill scale type material from the fork spring heat treating process rather than alum particulate.

Edited August 20, 2019 by widebear

[Beta300REcat]

3 hours ago, widebear said:

What I saw looked more like a mill scale type material from the fork spring heat treating process rather than alum particulate.

Magnet could prove handy. ?

[MartyMOOSE]

     I would have little concern about wear in that area shown if it was my fork.I'm on my third 30 hour oil change on my CC's and though the oil was a little dark there was really very little residue in the oil. What I saw looked more like a mill scale type material from the fork spring heat treating process rather than alum particulate.

Enlarge the pic and look further up the tube. Oil is 12 hrs old if it's the springs it's still very poor form.

[Odysseus]

25 minutes ago, MartyMOOSE said:

4 hours ago, widebear said:

     I would have little concern about wear in that area shown if it was my fork.I'm on my third 30 hour oil change on my CC's and though the oil was a little dark there was really very little residue in the oil. What I saw looked more like a mill scale type material from the fork spring heat treating process rather than alum particulate.

Enlarge the pic and look further up the tube. Oil is 12 hrs old if it's the springs it's still very poor form.

Now I see it.Thought is was a reflection.How high up,lower triple area?

[Odysseus]

54 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

Magnet could prove handy.

Tried.Wasn't magnetic.Pretty sure it wasn't alum either.Very little all the same.

[T-Tonic]

Hey All, great thread and glad to see that it is still going as I am curious to now compare the 2020 RE KYB option vs 2020 RR option with MXT cartridge upgrade? I am looking at getting back into the game and have been watching Beta for a while now and am sold on the 300 2T but still up in the air as the best route for suspension. If there is a way to save the shekles by purchasing the right fork up front I'd certainly like to take advantage.

I've spoke to Warren at Enduro Spec (awesome guy BTW) and prior to the KYB option he suggested MXT all the way over CC, which based on research of the Sachs CC I was sold on. But with the KYB now in the picture I'm curious as to the pros and cons of going each way.

After 5 years hiatus I'm hoping that it won't take to long to get back up to the middle of the B pack and with a relocation from the South West to Colorado it looks like I'll be riding more rocky tight terrain 70% than desert trails 30%. Curious as to what those with experience with both platforms think?

[hawaiidirtrider]

13 hours ago, T-Tonic said:

Hey All, great thread and glad to see that it is still going as I am curious to now compare the 2020 RE KYB option vs 2020 RR option with MXT cartridge upgrade? I am looking at getting back into the game and have been watching Beta for a while now and am sold on the 300 2T but still up in the air as the best route for suspension. If there is a way to save the shekles by purchasing the right fork up front I'd certainly like to take advantage.

I've spoke to Warren at Enduro Spec (awesome guy BTW) and prior to the KYB option he suggested MXT all the way over CC, which based on research of the Sachs CC I was sold on. But with the KYB now in the picture I'm curious as to the pros and cons of going each way.

After 5 years hiatus I'm hoping that it won't take to long to get back up to the middle of the B pack and with a relocation from the South West to Colorado it looks like I'll be riding more rocky tight terrain 70% than desert trails 30%. Curious as to what those with experience with both platforms think?

KYB is announced for race editions. That’s all so far from what I know. I never heard of anyone with them yet. 

Just adding here a reference to your reference. 

https://www.endurospec.com/store/p30/MXT%2FEnduro_Spec_Sachs_Cartridge_System.html

Edited October 3, 2019 by hawaiidirtrider

[Johnny Depp]

16 hours ago, T-Tonic said:

Hey All, great thread and glad to see that it is still going as I am curious to now compare the 2020 RE KYB option vs 2020 RR option with MXT cartridge upgrade? I am looking at getting back into the game and have been watching Beta for a while now and am sold on the 300 2T but still up in the air as the best route for suspension. If there is a way to save the shekles by purchasing the right fork up front I'd certainly like to take advantage.

I've spoke to Warren at Enduro Spec (awesome guy BTW) and prior to the KYB option he suggested MXT all the way over CC, which based on research of the Sachs CC I was sold on. But with the KYB now in the picture I'm curious as to the pros and cons of going each way.

After 5 years hiatus I'm hoping that it won't take to long to get back up to the middle of the B pack and with a relocation from the South West to Colorado it looks like I'll be riding more rocky tight terrain 70% than desert trails 30%. Curious as to what those with experience with both platforms think?

No direct experience out there yet. ZF has had wear issues, so anodizing is recommended for trouble free service life. Living in CO with the type of riding you mention the Enduro Spec sounds like a good choice with them being "local". 

 Hard to know how the KYB's will be set up, but it should be good from the crate? Initial tests sound promising. They are a known factor with parts and tuners everywhere if not, and are generally considered top of the available choices for OEM. CC's have had some history of being "stiffer" for trail work and more for jumping, but we really don't know, every manufacturer sets them up different, most great but some history of bad.

[T-Tonic]

33 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

No direct experience out there yet. ZF has had wear issues, so anodizing is recommended for trouble free service life. Living in CO with the type of riding you mention the Enduro Spec sounds like a good choice with them being "local". 

 Hard to know how the KYB's will be set up, but it should be good from the crate? Initial tests sound promising. They are a known factor with parts and tuners everywhere if not, and are generally considered top of the available choices for OEM. CC's have had some history of being "stiffer" for trail work and more for jumping, but we really don't know, every manufacturer sets them up different, most great but some history of bad.

Exactly my thoughts. Either way I think a visit to Warren is probably in order. Tune up the KYBs or purchase the MXT cartridges. Ultimately I think either setup will give me what i want. So if all things being equal with ride quality, now it comes down to which is the more durable configuration and pricing differences between the two?

For the sake of argument, if the pricing difference holds at ~$400 between the RR and RE for 2020 like it was for the 2019, it appears to be more logical to go the KYB route (with some additional non-required bling) and just have it tuned as opposed to the RR with a $1K bill on top of that. This is where my thinking is but certain I am probably missing angles???

[weantright]

13 minutes ago, T-Tonic said:

Exactly my thoughts. Either way I think a visit to Warren is probably in order. Tune up the KYBs or purchase the MXT cartridges. Ultimately I think either setup will give me what i want. So if all things being equal with ride quality, now it comes down to which is the more durable configuration and pricing differences between the two?

For the sake of argument, if the pricing difference holds at ~$400 between the RR and RE for 2020 like it was for the 2019, it appears to be more logical to go the KYB route (with some additional non-required bling) and just have it tuned as opposed to the RR with a $1K bill on top of that. This is where my thinking is but certain I am probably missing angles???

KYB route is better based on what the end result will be and the cost to get there. If you can't get the KYBs to perform like the Lucky's then you need another tuner. I prefer a CC fork over a OC any day as these type of forks stay up in the stroke at speed and are (set-up dependent) plush for the slow rocks. Research online with the many that used both the Lucky's with KYB, Dal Soggio and CV. While the lucky's are a great option especially for the $$, they do not offer the same performance of the other options. RE models IS your only choice based on your post!

[T-Tonic]

Thanks for the comments weantright. That's what I was thinking but it's always nice to have others real you back in when you're heading off the reservation.

[Johnny Depp]

42 minutes ago, T-Tonic said:

Exactly my thoughts. Either way I think a visit to Warren is probably in order. Tune up the KYBs or purchase the MXT cartridges. Ultimately I think either setup will give me what i want. So if all things being equal with ride quality, now it comes down to which is the more durable configuration and pricing differences between the two?

For the sake of argument, if the pricing difference holds at ~$400 between the RR and RE for 2020 like it was for the 2019, it appears to be more logical to go the KYB route (with some additional non-required bling) and just have it tuned as opposed to the RR with a $1K bill on top of that. This is where my thinking is but certain I am probably missing angles???

The other angle is the anodizing of the ZF's, let's call it $300 and a tear down.

[Johnny Depp]

On 7/26/2019 at 7:55 AM, jviz1 said:

I've had all three forks variety's being discussed here, Sachs OC, Sachs with MXT insert, and now Sachs CC, have put 50 to 200 hours on each setup.
All three were revalved and setup for me by professional, the OC and MXT by the same person.     I was happy with all three during the time i had them.
They were all really good, but if i had to rank them in order, it'd be 'really good (Sachs OC)' - 'better (MXT)' - 'best (CC)'.  The CC just works better over a variety of terrain without readjusting the settings - the other two need tweaks depending on terrain.
But, take my comments with skepticism, as suspension is subjective.

Bump for relevance.

[Enduro Spec]

I haven’t seen the 2020 Beta KYB yet but keep in mind the specs that Beta released states they are AOS and not SSS. I don’t know this to be true but it’s a consideration worth noting and then verifying once we get our hands on a set. Lucky bolts in with axle lug removal etc into SSS but AOS has a different internal lug arrangement so we have to adapt it to AOS differently on the Yamaha versions. I currently don’t sell kyb lucky over the counter, only as an in house installation. Too many opportunities to ruin a set of forks if you don’t have the right lug removal technique. I wish I had more info but until I see one I can’t say anything for certain.

[Johnny Depp]

14 minutes ago, Enduro Spec said:

I haven’t seen the 2020 Beta KYB yet but keep in mind the specs that Beta released states they are AOS and not SSS. I don’t know this to be true but it’s a consideration worth noting and then verifying once we get our hands on a set. Lucky bolts in with axle lug removal etc into SSS but AOS has a different internal lug arrangement so we have to adapt it to AOS differently on the Yamaha versions. I currently don’t sell kyb lucky over the counter, only as an in house installation. Too many opportunities to ruin a set of forks if you don’t have the right lug removal technique. I wish I had more info but until I see one I can’t say anything for certain.

Hello again Warren, thanks for chiming in! There are forum members that are going to read your post and have to pick their jaw up off the floor. To many it is blasphemy to take the renowned KYB CC forks and insert your non CC cartridges. I have been accused of making it up that anyone would do that. This would be a good time to describe WHY anyone would go there?

 The word I had on the SSS vs AOS was that it was merely a switch in marketing terms a few years back, even on the Yamaha's. Your's is the 1st I've heard of any actual differences. Anything else that would be good to know?

 How has your experience been with the wear on the Sachs/ZF and the need for hard anodizing, and do you offer it also?