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Noisy motor after valve job

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20 hours ago, g steezy said:

I do have a question that may be hard to answer. I obviously need a new piston ring, this is supposedly a high compression piston. If it is, does anyone know if it takes the same rings as a factory piston? 

NO, you must use rings from the  same manufacture of the piston and specifically for that piston.. There is no universal industry standard  

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11 hours ago, g steezy said:

After searching the number on top of the piston is appears it has a Wiseco big bore piston. I found these numbers on top of the piston 4796M09450. So I guess if the jug is okay as well as the piston I can just buy rings from Wiseco. 

"Wiseco 4796M09450 94.50mm 13.5:1 Compression Piston" Hmm a 94.5mm piston, strange choice ..... what cylinder are you using? 

94.5mm is not a common BB size, it is something teh cylinder would have had to have been specifically bored and honed for

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12 hours ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

 

So did your guy have the jug off when he rebuilt the head?

 

I would replace the piston with 4795MO9450. 13.5:1 compression is too high unless you're running race fuel. I don't personally have experience with it but that kind of information is readily available on the LT-Z400 sites. The quad cousin uses the same basic engine and is the main reason for many of the available performance parts for the DRZ .

 

 

 

I replied to you earlier today, but I guess it didn't go through.

The fella who did my valves did not take the jug off. I'm guessing this happened when the piston was originally installed. I called the previous owner of the bike and he said he maybe only had 10 hours on the rebuild. After I told him what happened he proceeded to call the shop owner who did the work who has since sold the shop. The previous owner of the shop stated he had a guy work for him who messed some things up and was fired, my bike could of been one of those bikes. So, yeah, I'm one unlucky dude I suppose. 

Secondly, you had my a little worried with your comment about the compression so I called Wiseco directly. They told me if I ran 92 to 93 octane I would be good all day. They told me 91 is a little bit of a stretch, but I could always add octane booster which I keep on hand for my DR650 that has a high compression for when I'm in rural areas that premium is hard to find. So with that reassurance I ordered a new ring set from them and I'm going to go together with the piston that's in there.

My last issues are to find out whether I need a factory base gasket or a "big bore" base gasket, and also to figure out what sims are needed to loosen up my exhaust valves. 

Allllllso is it normal to have two different shim sizes both on the exhaust side? I had a 3.10 and a 3.15 is why I ask. I honestly only thought you had to check is outer lobe for clearance only and shim both equally, but perhaps that not the case.

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2 hours ago, Erik Marquez said:

"Wiseco 4796M09450 94.50mm 13.5:1 Compression Piston" Hmm a 94.5mm piston, strange choice ..... what cylinder are you using? 

94.5mm is not a common BB size, it is something teh cylinder would have had to have been specifically bored and honed for

I have no idea what cylinder I'm using, it's the one that came on the bike ;-)  I really don't have an answer for you because I have no idea how to find out or where to look. Just two days ago I thought it was just a high compression piston, now I've figured out I'm dealing with a big bore high compression piston. 

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I replied to you earlier today, but I guess it didn't go through.
The fella who did my valves did not take the jug off. I'm guessing this happened when the piston was originally installed. I called the previous owner of the bike and he said he maybe only had 10 hours on the rebuild. After I told him what happened he proceeded to call the shop owner who did the work who has since sold the shop. The previous owner of the shop stated he had a guy work for him who messed some things up and was fired, my bike could of been one of those bikes. So, yeah, I'm one unlucky dude I suppose. 
Secondly, you had my a little worried with your comment about the compression so I called Wiseco directly. They told me if I ran 92 to 93 octane I would be good all day. They told me 91 is a little bit of a stretch, but I could always add octane booster which I keep on hand for my DR650 that has a high compression for when I'm in rural areas that premium is hard to find. So with that reassurance I ordered a new ring set from them and I'm going to go together with the piston that's in there.
My last issues are to find out whether I need a factory base gasket or a "big bore" base gasket, and also to figure out what sims are needed to loosen up my exhaust valves. 
Allllllso is it normal to have two different shim sizes both on the exhaust side? I had a 3.10 and a 3.15 is why I ask. I honestly only thought you had to check is outer lobe for clearance only and shim both equally, but perhaps that not the case.

Yes it's normal for shims to be different.

Keep a keen ear on the engine. Wouldn't be the 1st time a customer service guy didn't know what they were talking about. I read a thread just today that the Wiseco rep didn't even know what gasket to use to hit 13.5. The Z and S/SM gaskets are thicker and lower compression to around 12.6. I would be more inclined to believe that is on the raged end of pump fuel vs 13.5.

What's your experience on this Eric???
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3 minutes ago, ohiodrz400sm said:


Yes it's normal for shims to be different.

Keep a keen ear on the engine. Wouldn't be the 1st time a customer service guy didn't know what they were talking about. I read a thread just today that the Wiseco rep didn't even know what gasket to use to hit 13.5. The Z and S/SM gaskets are thicker and lower compression to around 12.6. I would be more inclined to believe that is on the raged end of pump fuel vs 13.5.

What's your experience on this Eric???

I understand what you're saying, but I want you to be wrong lol. I guess I'll have to call them tomorrow no matter what and get a base gasket from them. I can see about speaking to someone else and see if they have the same thoughts about the fuel. In all honesty I suppose I could run race fuel if I had to, but I really would like to just run pump gas. 

If the thing ever runs again I'll be a happy camper.

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Did the seller tell you it was a fresh rebuild ?  Personally I won't even consider buying a bike that just was rebuilt , never .Only time would be if it's so cheap that a total rebuild is planned from the start and it was cheap enough to cover it and my time.  90% of those that are plan to sell once it's put back together will cut corners to save $ . I'd inspect that cylinder and make sure it even has plating (bored out and then not replated) , or see what brand it even is . There's always those that will do a decent job but it simply isn't human nature to spend $ on something they're selling anyways. 

 

 

.

Edited by jjktmrider
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11 hours ago, ohiodrz400sm said:


Yes it's normal for shims to be different.

Keep a keen ear on the engine. Wouldn't be the 1st time a customer service guy didn't know what they were talking about. I read a thread just today that the Wiseco rep didn't even know what gasket to use to hit 13.5. The Z and S/SM gaskets are thicker and lower compression to around 12.6. I would be more inclined to believe that is on the raged end of pump fuel vs 13.5.

What's your experience on this Eric???

I think I may have missed the concern..... 13.5:1 piston and what gas to use???
The crappy answer is the lowest oct you can and not have pre ignition.. (pinging) 
And some of that depends on cams.... 94mm, 4mm stroker, stock cams..you would have to have 105 race gas and even then on a hot day under load it might ping.

94.5mm 13.5:1 stock stroke, id guess 93oct pump fuel will work ,,,,but like you said, id be very mindful of what the motor sounds like under load , if it runs ok, try a tank of 91 pump....a few seconds of pinging is not going to kill it, back off throttle, no high loads until you can refuel, all will be fine.

If that was not the question, please refresh my memory....

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11 hours ago, g steezy said:

I understand what you're saying, but I want you to be wrong lol. I guess I'll have to call them tomorrow no matter what and get a base gasket from them. I can see about speaking to someone else and see if they have the same thoughts about the fuel. In all honesty I suppose I could run race fuel if I had to, but I really would like to just run pump gas. 

If the thing ever runs again I'll be a happy camper.

You can get a base gasket from any one, unless it is a very special cylinder custom made the base gasket will be a standard thing..The head gasket will need to match the bore and that is a  little tougher..COMETIC C7963-EST is a 95mm head gasket and can be found from a lot of sources

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11 hours ago, g steezy said:

I have no idea what cylinder I'm using, it's the one that came on the bike ;-)  I really don't have an answer for you because I have no idea how to find out or where to look. Just two days ago I thought it was just a high compression piston, now I've figured out I'm dealing with a big bore high compression piston. 

Hmm, well, many years ago, say 2000-2007 or so it was very common to bore and re plate a stock cylinder. In the very early years Weisco was one of the few offering replacement BB pistons and the 94.5mm was one of their offerings commonly used when the cylinder need a bit more clean up then wold work with a 94mm bore. |
I have a stock cylinder that went 94mm, 94.5mm, and finally 97.5mm  

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5 hours ago, Erik Marquez said:

Hmm, well, many years ago, say 2000-2007 or so it was very common to bore and re plate a stock cylinder. In the very early years Weisco was one of the few offering replacement BB pistons and the 94.5mm was one of their offerings commonly used when the cylinder need a bit more clean up then wold work with a 94mm bore. |
I have a stock cylinder that went 94mm, 94.5mm, and finally 97.5mm  

I cleaned the cylinder up and it does say Suzuki on it some I’m assuming it was bored out. I thought I saw a kit that comes with a sleeve so maybe that’s what’s going on. I’m not very knowledgeable on this end of things.

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8 hours ago, jjktmrider said:

Did the seller tell you it was a fresh rebuild ?  Personally I won't even consider buying a bike that just was rebuilt , never .Only time would be if it's so cheap that a total rebuild is planned from the start and it was cheap enough to cover it and my time.  90% of those that are plan to sell once it's put back together will cut corners to save $ . I'd inspect that cylinder and make sure it even has plating (bored out and then not replated) , or see what brand it even is . There's always those that will do a decent job but it simply isn't human nature to spend $ on something they're selling anyways. 

 

 

.

I completely understand what you’re saying, if an ad says fresh rebuild I stay the f away. I bought this bike from someone I know. He had the work done he estimates 2 years ago, but it sat mostly sat because he has 6 other bikes. It wasn’t even for sale, but I was talking to him about wanting to get into dirt riding and told me about his bike. He feels terrible about what has happened and offered to pay half of my repairs, but I feel guilty accepting as he really had no clue and didn’t do the work himself. The shop who did the work has since changed owners so he can’t even go after them. It’s just bad luck on my part.

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That's one of the main reasons I would never buy another used bike unless it was a killer deal. People can say what they want to say just to make the sale. Buying a stock non modified anything is always better, at least you know what you have. Good Luck with your build.

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This one doesn't sound like it was intentional . Should find out for sure that it is sleeved or has been re-plated after it was bored . Nowadays it's not worth the boring and replating with so many new replacement cylinder kits fairly cheap and easy too get .

 

 

.

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Things have got to start going my way, but today isn’t the day. First, I ordered the wrong top end gasket kit because I was unaware that my bike had been bored when I ordered it. I called Wiseco to order a head gasket only to find out you must buy the entire top end gasket kit from them. They were super nice and did the best they could to help me out.

On that note the guy who did my valves proceeded to put the wrong head gasket on the bike. He obviously didn’t realize it was bored out either.

Later I took the clutch basket off to figure out if I could how this dumbass kick start gear goes on only to find a bracket missing. So I’ll be ordering that stuff now. I feel like a totally idiot for continuing messing with this, but I’m my mind it was either be out money without a bike or be out money with a bike. Cheers to the weekend, beer, and hopes of better luck on my end. Thanks again for all the words of wisdom guys.

455C7676-5119-4E85-A21F-8ABC1E05E389.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

Well I have to imagine the head gasket was causing the racket.
Next time you see your buddy tell him the internet said he's a hack.

Lol I’ll do that.

If anyone can direct me where to find that bracket I would appreciate. I’m having a hell of a time finding it in the microfiche or whatever it’s called.

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1 minute ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

Screenshot_20180112-145346.pngScreenshot_20180112-145356.png
I think this is it.

Number 32 you think? I must say it does look pretty close.

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