Sachs Shock Goldvalve

[Beta300REcat]

3 minutes ago, GP said:

HaHa,  the band availability is secondary but a plus.   I'm simply interested in seeing if the Sachs piston is a limitation that I have gotten used to in certain conditions.  After several conversations with people who have tried, with success, its worth a shot.  So, its not a specific piston I'm after, just one to put more control via flow on the shim stack.  A direction would be a good term.

Would this take care of the seal and the valve at the same time?

https://mx-tech.com/showa-16mm-id-50mm-shock-piston-ring/

[GP]

1 minute ago, Bermudacat said:

Would this take care of the seal and the valve at the same time?

https://mx-tech.com/showa-16mm-id-50mm-shock-piston-ring/

Yes and no.  The Sachs tap is 12mm, so like the #5043 GV, it would need a sleeve made. 

[Beta300REcat]

1 hour ago, GP said:

Yes and no.  The Sachs tap is 12mm, so like the #5043 GV, it would need a sleeve made. 

OK, so the Sachs has a 12mm rod all the way and the Showa has a shoulder? I'm missing the why of the 5003 being 'laterally' compatible with the Showa.

Have you considered boring the ports on your Sachs valve?

[GP]

20 minutes ago, Bermudacat said:

OK, so the Sachs has a 12mm rod all the way and the Showa has a shoulder? I'm missing the why of the 5003 being 'laterally' compatible with the Showa.

Have you considered boring the ports on your Sachs valve?

No, Sachs has 16mm shaft with a shoulder/top out plate, 12mm spindle/tap.  I looked at it and thought too much work to get it right.  Not just simple boring, but a lot of tedious dremel work that doesn't look easy if at all possible.  If I had prior experience and knew exactly the area I needed and if it were possible then yeah but to answer my basic question a plug and play piston is easiest.  maybe later try to mod the stocker and use in a couple of Husky Sachs shocks I maintain.

[basalt]

In usual Beta forum fashion:

 

OP: Anyone know where I can find this part?

Beta Forum: YOU'RE DOING IT ALL WRONG! YOU COULDN'T POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE EVEN ASKING FOR! YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING!

Ridiculous

[GP]

Well, where it left off is pretty good and productive compared to some of the other shit shows here.

Husabusa, looking forward to sharing some experiences valving this thing. Are you going to use the RT starting points ? I get mixed opinions on them being too soft vs too stiff.

[husabusa]

Yes i will try RT first and see
I have used RT before and liket it
But i like it stiff [emoji5]

[husabusa]

I have one old marzocchi 45 made by fbf that i put RT valves in that use to have when i drived italien husqvarna
And that is one off the best forks i have ever ridden
Even know when i have kyb cc 48 on the beta i still think the zokes are better [emoji106]
In the future if i have time i will get that fork to suit the beta

[husabusa]

Maby you have some input on the kybs fork?
I tryed xover in the base and dident like it to muschy and no feedback
So now its good but in low speed it beats me up!
I thinkin to try xover in midvalve comp? I have now a flout 0,25ish and like it but not in low speed
I have tryed flout .03 and 0,35 and did not like it to soft

Have you tryed xover in midvalve?

Thx

[MartyMOOSE]

Tried a bleed stack ?

[husabusa]

Yes i have a bleed stack in and i like that

[husabusa]

Marty have you tryed xover in the midvalve?

[GP]

With regards to the GV in the shock, the proper way would be to fit the curve using Restackor.  Baseline the original piston and stack,  calc the shaft speed for trail speed and bump size of interest, and start running.  This would get close and save time and oil.  I lost my copy to a crash, hopefully I can get a new key and get it up on a new installation.

KYB forks.  I would guess your fast and/ride faster less technical terrain based on your shock stack.  I ride mostly rocks, a lot technical, some fast stuff.  I have it working OK everywhere.  Its firm but not abusive and stays up in the travel.  The two stage mid just complicates things in a hyper sensitive adjustment, tried once and went back.  The bleed stack is good, I do this as well.  What I have found after many revalves is that small floats will beat the crap out of you in the rocks and chop.  If your a sand or MX guy sure but not in the technical woods.  I've backed off the mid to .4mm float, medium to even soft stack, and make it up on the base with a single stage stack.  It has a good scope like this.  For you the absolutes may be different but the concept is worth trying.  So if you ride less edgey stuff maybe go .35 to .38mm, that you thought was soft before, and make it up with a few more face shims on the base.

Those old Zokes had tiny ports so anything would be an improvement.

[MartyMOOSE]

17 hours ago, husabusa said:

Marty have you tryed xover in the midvalve?

No I haven't have tried a crossover, stiffer mids with various floats, soft flexy mids with various floats. I found I like 3 face shims, even taper to a 10 or 11 clamp and 0.3 to 0.35 float on the 4st. I also now run a bleed stack as i like the feel. I'll send you my latest base it may help you. I was running 16 face shims on the base now 12 but a stiffer stack higher up. 

Looking forward to hearing how you go with the gold valves in the shock. I've gone to a dual stage comp stack on the shock with 0.15 crossovers it really plush but firm. Also using 10x 0.2 face shims.

Marty 

[husabusa]

Thank you gp and marty for the info i will try more flout and see
What i think
And marty if you send me your base stack will be super [emoji106]

[GP]

GV is in and Restackor up and running.  Should be interesting.

[MartyMOOSE]

Come it's been Day your being slow in your old age GP. Where is our report [emoji23]

 

 

[GP]

OEM vs 5003 GV, compression side:



Rebound side:



Measured it up and entering into Restackor. Interesting that the recommended setup from RT is pretty
close to what I would have guessed, but this time some engineering, no guessing.

[husabusa]

Nice[emoji106] you wont be using what RT say? Did you get any shim charts ?

[GP]

When I went to the RT site, into valving search, and entered my code, it came up with the #5043 valve (16mm ID) and I could not change it! So, being the valve is basically the same I ran the data along with what I have now and it's not far off. This is the basic calculation that lets you compare overall stiffness. I have all the details for the comp adjuster, etc. I have to enter and run as a system, as well as simulate bump sizes to generate shaft speeds. I got distracted and bummed out when I found my shock body worn through the coating and oil fouled upon disassembly. I guess I can't complain considering the hours. In any case I have a solution and I'll continue with the modeling this week.