Sachs Shock Goldvalve

[ckny]

14 hours ago, Goatse said:

Closed Cartridge. They're on the way already, so I wouldn't want to pull the rug out now.

Also, I 'do' want the Beta scene in Canada to get better, so I do want to try to keep whatever I can as local as I can. I'd love for it to have something like Beta USA or Beta Australia. But without Canadians buying bikes and parts, it'd never get there.

Still small in Canada. They did 500 new bikes last year, hoping to jump to 700 for 2018.

Im helping with the Beta snowbike demo next month. The distributor has put a lot of effort into the brand. It was nothing in Canada before he took over in 2013. 

[ckny]

Also, they have a new guy running the parts warehouse so things should improve soon. 

[kawagumby]

I'm a big fan of Race Tech gold valve kits.  I've done about a dozen upgrades using them, both forks and shocks.  Cost is minimal, and they always provide a lot of extra shims so you can do about whatever you want for performance.  The real clincher tho', is that doing it yourself, you can easily modify the stack if it needs it for your particular situation.  Usually, their recommended shim stack arrangements are very close to right on to begin with.  You can shop around for prices for most kits, and I've found that it is rare that I pay more than about $140 or so, for a shock or fork kit, so cost is not a big factor.

[kawagumby]

19 hours ago, THE KRAN said:

A Race Tech 'Gold Valve' is just a piston.

Changing out the stock piston to the gold valve with dramtically incrase the oil flow around and through the shim stack, so you will NEED to get it revalved. 

Race Tech might have a shim stack curve already figured out for you, call them up and see.

The kits include piston and shims.  Race Tech provides a look-up chart on-line so you can dial in the shim stack based on the info you provide...your age, riding ability and kind of riding you do.  You are provided with an access code in the kit, which you use to get the settings on line.  The extensive shim charts they provide have a huge variation in flow, so if you don't hit it right the first time (rare) you can add or remove shims, change shim sizes, etc. based on your riding experience following the initial installation.  I'm pretty old so I always shim on the lighter side of their recommendations and it works very well for me.

[GP]

The real question here is if the stock piston is a limitation under certain high flow conditions.  So far two guys have said yes and under the same conditions.  One guy I know personally and he knows what he is doing.  I don't think these GVs are needed in many cases, but maybe here its worth trying.  Also its interesting that the Beta USA bikes do not use the stock Sachs pistons.  I'm always up for learning something.

[Goatse]

Let me know. I’m close to the parts warehouse and I know the guys very well. I’ve even done the Beta Canada parts inventory before ha ha. I was with the distributor on the weekend, maybe I can help. 



My buddy built a bunch of suspension tools for Beta Canada, not sure which dealers they went to. I can talk to him as well, might be cheaper for him to send yo7 something. 

I tried a new supplier in Ontario, and I have no idea where he's bringing them in from. He had to bring them in, then once he gets them, he'll then ship them to me. So after the effort he's put in, I don't want to go with someone else for the fork tools at this point.

Also, I tried with my local dealer, but they weren't getting anywhere with the Beta supplier. I don't know where the separation is starting with this Beta stuff. I have an extremely good relationship with the parts manager as I'm one of their sponsored riders (through road racing), and I've never had a single hiccup with the countless amount of parts I've ordered for over 8 different Yamaha motorcycles over the years. I'm literally in there at least once every 2 weeks and have been for years. Not until I've been on the Beta has it ever been even close to an issue to gets parts or tools. The parts guys have been fantastic getting parts for me from Yamaha, but so far with the Beta, not so much. I do know that part numbers are a pain from Beta. Even if you use Beta's parts fiche, they differ throughout the years. Some use spaces, some use zeros, some use periods.

I'm sure it'll get there, and I really would like it to. Dealing with some Beta issues is less than ideal after being life long Yamaha, but I swear... EVERY single time I ride that 250RR it really does impress me more on how good it is. If I can get these Sachs forks to work like my KYB's it will be an absolutely superb motorcycle.


And to stay on topic. Come on Race Tech. Design a gold valve kit for the Sachs CC forks. I'd pick one up in a heartbeat. I tried another suspension tuner today and he wouldn't sell me Sachs shims. He said he tried hard enough to get them, that's he's using them for his own work.

[ckny]

43 minutes ago, Goatse said:

 

I tried a new supplier in Ontario, and I have no idea where he's bringing them in from. He had to bring them in, then once he gets them, he'll then ship them to me. So after the effort he's put in, I don't want to go with someone else for the fork tools at this point.

Also, I tried with my local dealer, but they weren't getting anywhere with the Beta supplier. I don't know where the separation is starting with this Beta stuff. I have an extremely good relationship with the parts manager as I'm one of their sponsored riders (through road racing), and I've never had a single hiccup with the countless amount of parts I've ordered for over 8 different Yamaha motorcycles over the years. I'm literally in there at least once every 2 weeks and have been for years. Not until I've been on the Beta has it ever been even close to an issue to gets parts or tools. The parts guys have been fantastic getting parts for me from Yamaha, but so far with the Beta, not so much. I do know that part numbers are a pain from Beta. Even if you use Beta's parts fiche, they differ throughout the years. Some use spaces, some use zeros, some use periods.

I'm sure it'll get there, and I really would like it to. Dealing with some Beta issues is less than ideal after being life long Yamaha, but I swear... EVERY single time I ride that 250RR it really does impress me more on how good it is. If I can get these Sachs forks to work like my KYB's it will be an absolutely superb motorcycle.


And to stay on topic. Come on Race Tech. Design a gold valve kit for the Sachs CC forks. I'd pick one up in a heartbeat. I tried another suspension tuner today and he wouldn't sell me Sachs shims. He said he tried hard enough to get them, that's he's using them for his own work.

 

They are not gonna work like your KYB’s.

Beta in Canada is pretty simple. No floor plan. Dealers pay cash for bikes, no financing from Beta Canada. You need to buy 2 bikes to be a dealer and have a storefront. 

All bikes arrive in Halifax before shipping out.

The parts distribution Center for Canada is in Moncton, NB. Everything comes from there.

In Atlantic Canada getting parts is never an issue, maybe that is different in the rest of the country.

Like I said, if you need a name and a number let me know. I just sent a text to the distributor letting him know you are having issues. 

[Goatse]

They are not gonna work like your KYB’s.

I'm not super picky with forks. My KYB's are essentially stock, so I don't think it should be tough to get some modded Sachs to be at least as good as stock KYB's.

And a contact number isn't really needed. It's not like the service is outrageous. It's just not what I'm used to with Yamaha, which is not surprising. Yamaha is just a wee bit bigger company, with just a few more employees than Beta... I didn't jump into a Beta expecting it to be like Yamaha. But I was hoping we'd have it as good as the guys south of the border do. IMO that's what a new brand needs to really make it flourish. But I also know the importer/your buddy doesn't have the benefit of something like an official Beta Canada backing behind him.

[MartyMOOSE]

I run firmer comp stack than many of you but often run the clickers out at 17 on the low speed. Rebound is to fast I agree with Glenn even just taking the 20 clamp out  and using the 22 as a clamp allows the clicker to run a fair way out over the std stack with less crossover on the comp.  I have seen some rebound stacks full of 0.3's not tried it but I run my clicker from 14 in sand out to 18 on hard pack so am worried all the 0.3's maybe to much. Ripping into the 2018 shock this week will post up the std stacks in the suspension section and here. Also put some feelers out for a KYB piston should be fun if I can get one. 

MM 

[GP]

KYB piston will be fine if the dia is exactly the same, should be. It's 1 mm taller. Big knowledge base that should be applicable. Putting KYB s and buddy's Zokes back together now with hardcoated parts. '18 shift indexer in motor and shock next.

[husabusa]

Gp do you think it worth the money to test a goldvalve in the sachs?

[MartyMOOSE]

5 hours ago, husabusa said:

Gp do you think it worth the money to test a goldvalve in the sachs?

The fact he said it transformed the shock I'd say yes ? He said he rides lots of rocks though.

MM 

[GP]

I think it's worth a shot. I know the guy a long time he has a lot of experience setting up bikes and is a good rider. He was very enthused about this after two rides. Plus, I like to learn and improve things. It makes sense from a technical perspective if you increase the port area you put the load on the valving not on the piston itself. Worst case is it takes you a couple more tries to dial it in, it will be a stiffer stack. Like I said I hit a wall with the shock I have accepted as OK. Perhaps some effort will yield great. Only one way to find out.

[husabusa]

Ok i think i give it a try but it will take a long time to get it
Shipping to sweden is slow

What do you guys run for rebound stacks and springs?
I have the stack marty send me but i have stift it up some
And i have 6.0 rear spring

[MartyMOOSE]

10 hours ago, husabusa said:

Ok i think i give it a try but it will take a long time to get it
Shipping to sweden is slow

What do you guys run for rebound stacks and springs?
I have the stack marty send me but i have stift it up some
And i have 6.0 rear spring

Is that the one full of 0.3's ? What comp stacks have you tried on your shock ? I'm messing with two stage stacks atm and like the feel, can still firm it up with clickers if needed. 

[husabusa]

i cant find the pappers but taken from the memory is

 

comp

44x20x(10)
42x0.15
38x0.2
36x0.2
34x0.2
32x0.2
30x0.25
28x0.25
26x0.25
24x0.25
22x0.3

 

reb

38x0.25 (4)

36x0.2
28x0.1
36x0.25
34x0.25
32x0.25
30x0.25
28x0.3
26x0.3
24x0.3
22x0.25

ii think it is something like this?

and it kicks alot in medium and high speed

spring is 6.0

clicker

hsc 12

comp 12

reb 9

[husabusa]

i forgot under the 44x20 (10) it is a break shim 26x0.15

[husabusa]

The RT piston has a 16mm ID bore so needed a sleeve made for the 12mm tap on the Beta Sachs.  Now, all that said I'm curious if a stock KYB or Showa piston will improve things as well.  I'd have to look at the port areas of each.  Anyone done this?

glen do you mine there is no sleeve in the kit from RS? and you have to do one yourself?

[GP]

The RT piston has a 16mm ID bore so needed a sleeve made for the 12mm tap on the Beta Sachs.  Now, all that said I'm curious if a stock KYB or Showa piston will improve things as well.  I'd have to look at the port areas of each.  Anyone done this?
glen do you mine there is no sleeve in the kit from RS? and you have to do one yourself?

The truth is the kit he had came with a reducer/backplate to fit the 12mm tap. He didn't like it so had a sleeve made and used the stock backer and 12mm shims. He had two different kits, don't recall the part#s. Looking at the RT site there are several 50mm kits, and the one for the Beta Sachs is listed as SMGV-5043, 50 X 12, so I assume it's a 12mm ID . I'll call RT tomorrow for clarification.

Your comp stack is way too stiff for my use, but I run a stiffer rebound stack.

[husabusa]

What reb stack are you running?