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M.Roman

Trials Crosstraining

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There isn't many forums talking about trials, and how it is related to offroad riding so I decided to start this thread. When it comes to offroad riding a trials bike (IMO) is pivotal to advancing your skills past the average level and yet there isn't a lot of media expressing this. If you look at the top world riders you'll find over and over that they come from a trials background. I've ridden trials for over 3 years and have seen every bit of the skills transfer over, and most noticeably when I ride trials the day before enduro. Probably the most important skill I've honed is balance. You can spend 30 minutes at the end of your work day riding in your yard, or driveway just to get some training in. I can't even count the amount of times I got on to ride for a short bit, then notice an hours gone flying by! Since then I've noticed the trials riding consistently prepares me mentally for bigger hits on my enduro bike; straight rock faces, gnarly drop ins, mossy stream/rock gardens, all stuff that people consider hard enduro. On top of all that, the trials bike allows me to scope out new areas to make trails in remote spots that some people won't even hike, let alone take a full size bike through. And who doesn't like brand new single track??!

beta2018evo125factory.jpg

sherco2018st125factory.jpg

GasGas2018txt125factory.jpg

TRS2018oneFactory.jpg

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I couldn't agree more with what your saying here .After many years of deliberation around the subject of acquiring a trials bike I picked up a 2013 Sherco 290 a couple of months ago.Whats really cool for me is that it's like learning to ride from scratch, all over again and a major ego deflater as well.Not the most comfortable position to be in but a great learning tool that carries beyond just motorcycling.

Edited by widebear
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I've been dabbling in trials for a few years. I agree it's a great training tool, has taken my hard enduro skills to another level. Even if you only get the fundamentals of trials down, you'll look like a dirtbike god once you get back with your enduro buds in the technical stuff.

 

Edited by Sierra_rider
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I agree it is a great training tool. picked up a used Sherco, I was very optimistic about training in the yard, maybe doing events.. fast forward I've improved on balance and pivot turns and stand up wheelies. My issue is time and area to ride, I feel self conscious in the yard and don't want to bother neighbors. Which brings up my point. Yes it's valuable, but make sure you have time and space, or you are better off airing down your Enduro and practicing on that.

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I actually think I enjoy doing trials more on my 300rr than my trials bike. I hated doing them on my old shitty KTM before I got the new bike. I got the trials bike almost a year ago and it has changed my riding no doubt! I make some vids of my progress as well as some how-to.

Edit: keep in mind when I say doing trials, I'm not actually doing real sections except on the rare occasion I tape some stuff off in my backyard. I gravitate more toward endurocross type stuff than hard enduro terrain because I don't have any hard natural terrain within 2hr drive. 

 

 

Edited by jacob429
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14 hours ago, widebear said:

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more with what your saying here .After many years of deliberation around the subject of acquiring a trials bike I picked up a 2013 Sherco 290 a couple of months ago.Whats really cool for me is that it's like learning to ride from scratch, all over again and a major ego deflater as well.Not the most comfortable position to be in but a great learning tool that carries beyond just motorcycling.

+1, I just picked up a Sherco 250 factory a couple of weeks ago. Fun and I can ride it in the winter which is great for getting off the couch.

13 hours ago, Sierra_rider said:

I've been dabbling in trials for a few years. I agree it's a great training tool, has taken my hard enduro skills to another level. Even if you only get the fundamentals of trials down, you'll look like a dirtbike god once you get back with your enduro buds in the technical stuff.

 

I hope so since right now I $uck@! I keep telling myself "you will be a better woods rider" "just stay with it". Kids are really taking to it which will make me slower come summer!

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Well I don't cross train on trials, trials is my main riding. Grew up riding normal dirt bikes, but been riding trials since 2000 and love it! I ride what would be the Expert class in most parts of the country (just not in SoCal)

Brought up both my kids riding trials. They are now 19 & 14 and both can kick my ass on a trials bike. The 14 year old still rides my same class and just started beating me. 

When they jump on a normal dirt bike the transition is so easy for them. The biggest thing I see is the throttle and clutch control I let Ty ride a 450 way before he should have, but he had no problems and never once grabbed too much. The other thing is they know exactly where they are putting both wheels. Not to mention the proper technique for going over things without even thinking. For Ty's Endurocross racing he has actually had to unlearn some things and just smash though stuff because it's faster. 

My best advice to people using it as Cross training is look up local clubs and go ride with those guys. You'll learn so much faster and the proper way. I've seen guys get one then just ride over stuff without learning proper techniques then say they didn't get anything out of it. 

Just to bring it back to Beta to stay in this forum. My first trials bike was a 1998 Beta that I got in 2000. Anybody else here been on a Beta that long? 

Here's our Beta trials bikes. First my 2017 Evo 250, then Ty's 2017 Factory Evo 300, then my youngest Cole's 2018 Evo 125. Beta trials bikes are super solid. The only thing that comes close to them in reliability is the Honda/Montesa. 

 

 

IMG_3048.JPG

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1 hour ago, ccullins said:

Well I don't cross train on trials, trials is my main riding. Grew up riding normal dirt bikes, but been riding trials since 2000 and love it! I ride what would be the Expert class in most parts of the country (just not in SoCal)

Brought up both my kids riding trials. They are now 19 & 14 and both can kick my ass on a trials bike. The 14 year old still rides my same class and just started beating me. 

When they jump on a normal dirt bike the transition is so easy for them. The biggest thing I see is the throttle and clutch control I let Ty ride a 450 way before he should have, but he had no problems and never once grabbed too much. The other thing is they know exactly where they are putting both wheels. Not to mention the proper technique for going over things without even thinking. For Ty's Endurocross racing he has actually had to unlearn some things and just smash though stuff because it's faster. 

My best advice to people using it as Cross training is look up local clubs and go ride with those guys. You'll learn so much faster and the proper way. I've seen guys get one then just ride over stuff without learning proper techniques then say they didn't get anything out of it. 

Just to bring it back to Beta to stay in this forum. My first trials bike was a 1998 Beta that I got in 2000. Anybody else here been on a Beta that long? 

Here's our Beta trials bikes. First my 2017 Evo 250, then Ty's 2017 Factory Evo 300, then my youngest Cole's 2018 Evo 125. Beta trials bikes are super solid. The only thing that comes close to them in reliability is the Honda/Montesa. 

 

 

IMG_3048.JPG

What is the best size of engine to start Trial? 125, 260 Monteza, 300??Would a 125 be easier as I think it must be more forgiving. I started enduro at past 65, now going on 69 and I ride an X Trainer 2016 in the trails. I have seen a Montesa Cota 4RT260 at $7,700 CANADIAN. It's a dealer Demo. Good choice for engine size or too powerful? Price OK??

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1 hour ago, ccullins said:

 Just to bring it back to Beta to stay in this forum. My first trials bike was a 1998 Beta that I got in 2000. Anybody else here been on a Beta that long?  Beta trials bikes are super solid. The only thing that comes close to them in reliability is the Honda/Montesa. 

 

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more with you on the aspect of hitting local events! My first event here in the northeast was outstanding. I knew nothing about trials techniques, bike set up, and all the small stuff. I went out, and after the first section an old timer type guy told me it looked like the pressures were maybe a pound or two higher than they should be,.. the guy was right on the money, they were at 8 up front, and 6 out back. Event after event the energy, and vibes I see are just great, it's like riding with your buddies every time you go even though you don't know everyone. Long story short, I see the talented guys happily giving pointers at all the events I've been.

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18 minutes ago, Survivor said:

What is the best size of engine to start Trial? 125, 260 Monteza, 300??Would a 125 be easier as I think it must be more forgiving. I started enduro at past 65, now going on 69 and I ride an X Trainer 2016 in the trails. I have seen a Montesa Cota 4RT260 at $7,700 CANADIAN. It's a dealer Demo. Good choice for engine size or too powerful? Price OK??

I think most experienced riders will rightfully tell you that a 200 (2T) is the right choice to start on. It's got all the power you'll need at that skill level, and won't want to push the front end in tight areas. I've been riding a 125 2T this past season, and have had no lack of power at the NETA events in the Advanced class (B, Expert).

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I’ll be following along here. I’ve been thinking about getting a trials bike to bang around for the last few years, then got my son an Oset 12.5 a couple years ago, and am looking for a 16.0 or 20.0 for him now.
After getting him one, I could immediately see how it would improve my riding. I’d like to get better for JDay and NETRA events. I’ve been keeping my eye out for a used bike but they don’t seem that easy to find!

Also interested in tips for a beginner bike, I’m riding a KTM 250 Xcw now. I am “attracted” to the Betas for some reason.

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49 minutes ago, piston said:

I’ll be following along here. I’ve been thinking about getting a trials bike to bang around for the last few years, then got my son an Oset 12.5 a couple years ago, and am looking for a 16.0 or 20.0 for him now.
After getting him one, I could immediately see how it would improve my riding. I’d like to get better for JDay and NETRA events. I’ve been keeping my eye out for a used bike but they don’t seem that easy to find!

Also interested in tips for a beginner bike, I’m riding a KTM 250 Xcw now. I am “attracted” to the Betas for some reason.

Best bet is to hook up with your local trials club, a lot more used bike availability than what you'll find on craigslist.

As far as used bikes, IMO just find the best value, assuming you can still get parts support for it. I would really like a Beta as well, considering I have 2 Beta enduro bikes, but my trials bike is a GasGas txt280 race. No complaints, as it's a great bike and I have no issue with support for it.

Edited by Sierra_rider
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I picked up a Beta Trials bike a couple years ago and was surprised how much different it was to ride, I thought I was going hop on it and throw it around like a bicycle but I could barely clear obstacles that were easy on my enduro bike.  I really wanted to stick with it, but with herniated disks in my lower back I couldn't ride it for more than 15 minutes at a clip.  Also there were no trials clubs within 2 hours drive from me.  I ended up selling it,  but I would like to give it another shot if I could just get my back to heal up.

For now it's just going to be practicing the techniques a learned at the Jarvis class last year on my enduro bike at slow speeds.

I've got Tim Coleman coming here in May, and Jarvis again in the fall, so I have lot's of practicing to work on!

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9 hours ago, M.Roman said:

I think most experienced riders will rightfully tell you that a 200 (2T) is the right choice to start on. It's got all the power you'll need at that skill level, and won't want to push the front end in tight areas. I've been riding a 125 2T this past season, and have had no lack of power at the NETA events in the Advanced class (B, Expert).

When I was researching what size and brand to get I found just as many riders telling me to get a 200 as was a 125 as was a 250 as well a 300. Seemed there was more choices then endure bikes for a beginner. I found a local dealer with a 2017 demo and grabbed it. New bike for a lot less the new price also came with a couple of goodies. One thing I can't grasp is the long clutch lever reach,,,, I need to add 3" to my fingers or adjust lever to not completely disengaged.

9 hours ago, piston said:

I’ll be following along here. I’ve been thinking about getting a trials bike to bang around for the last few years, then got my son an Oset 12.5 a couple years ago, and am looking for a 16.0 or 20.0 for him now.
After getting him one, I could immediately see how it would improve my riding. I’d like to get better for JDay and NETRA events. I’ve been keeping my eye out for a used bike but they don’t seem that easy to find!

Also interested in tips for a beginner bike, I’m riding a KTM 250 Xcw now. I am “attracted” to the Betas for some reason.

I found there are plenty of bikes out there. Plenty of brands choices and sizes. What I didn't find are good prices. Low price for a older well used bike or new prices for a good condition used bike. This kept me off from buying until this year. If I don't want the bike anymore I can sell it and lose nothing,,,, as long as we don't trash it!

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14 hours ago, Survivor said:

What is the best size of engine to start Trial? 125, 260 Monteza, 300??Would a 125 be easier as I think it must be more forgiving. I started enduro at past 65, now going on 69 and I ride an X Trainer 2016 in the trails. I have seen a Montesa Cota 4RT260 at $7,700 CANADIAN. It's a dealer Demo. Good choice for engine size or too powerful? Price OK??

That's the kind of question you'll get 50 different answers on. Like which truck is best, which oil is best etc.

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I've had and  competed on everything from a 320cc Sherco four stroke to 125cc two strokes and everything in between. The one thing that was consistent was my results never changed. 

So starting with the 260 Montesa, it can be a very good first trials bike. It is mild and very easy to live with. They are like an older Honda, just always start up and go without any fuss. Basic handling traits are good even though they are a little on the heavy side. The thing some people have problem with is the typical slight EFI jerky feeling right off idle. Some guys don't even notice it while other guys struggle with riding it smooth. It was never an issue for me when I had one. I would say since it's a demo bike see if you can take it for a ride and see what you think. 

A 125 can be good if your riding strictly sections. Even though they only weight a few pounds less they ride like they're 15 pounds less. I really like 125's, however they totally suck on the trail! Seems you can never find the right gear. I hated riding 125's on the loop. 

200's are what I think most people should start with. They are really great bikes! Problem is Beta is the only one who has built one in the last several years and that's in small numbers. Very hard to find and if you do snatch it up! 

250's can also be hard to find and would be a good choice. Obviously I think Betas are the best way to go! However a nice used something else should serve you well also. 

300-290-280's are the most popular depending on year and brand a 300 might actually be tamer/slower revving than a 280. It's not too hard to tame down a trials bike though. Hearing it down and putting a slow action throttle on can do wonders. Also you can get heavier flywheel weights for most bikes and some even a low compression head. 

A few years ago I had a female Trials rider who wanted a new 250, however they where all sold out. So I built her a 2.9 Sherco with a low compression head, flywheel weight, slow turn throttle and a 9t front sprocket. Thing was a total tractor that wouldn't stall and had zero hit. She loved it!

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13 minutes ago, ccullins said:

That's the kind of question you'll get 50 different answers on. Like which truck is best, which oil is best etc.

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I've had and  competed on everything from a 320cc Sherco four stroke to 125cc two strokes and everything in between. The one thing that was consistent was my results never changed. 

So starting with the 260 Montesa, it can be a very good first trials bike. It is mild and very easy to live with. They are like an older Honda, just always start up and go without any fuss. Basic handling traits are good even though they are a little on the heavy side. The thing some people have problem with is the typical slight EFI jerky feeling right off idle. Some guys don't even notice it while other guys struggle with riding it smooth. It was never an issue for me when I had one. I would say since it's a demo bike see if you can take it for a ride and see what you think. 

A 125 can be good if your riding strictly sections. Even though they only weight a few pounds less they ride like they're 15 pounds less. I really like 125's, however they totally suck on the trail! Seems you can never find the right gear. I hated riding 125's on the loop. 

200's are what I think most people should start with. They are really great bikes! Problem is Beta is the only one who has built one in the last several years and that's in small numbers. Very hard to find and if you do snatch it up! 

250's can also be hard to find and would be a good choice. Obviously I think Betas are the best way to go! However a nice used something else should serve you well also. 

300-290-280's are the most popular depending on year and brand a 300 might actually be tamer/slower revving than a 280. It's not too hard to tame down a trials bike though. Hearing it down and putting a slow action throttle on can do wonders. Also you can get heavier flywheel weights for most bikes and some even a low compression head. 

A few years ago I had a female Trials rider who wanted a new 250, however they where all sold out. So I built her a 2.9 Sherco with a low compression head, flywheel weight, slow turn throttle and a 9t front sprocket. Thing was a total tractor that wouldn't stall and had zero hit. She loved it!

Thanks to everyone for your reply!

Special thanks to ccullins for the detailed reply with great info!

After three head cancer and being in remission for many years, I discovered that my best survival treatment was to enjoy life to it's max!

Great people = Great fun!

Although I am very close to 70, I saw that a guy was beating me in age being 76 years old (50 years of kicks / Youtube)

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20 hours ago, Survivor said:

Thanks to everyone for your reply!

Special thanks to ccullins for the detailed reply with great info!

After three head cancer and being in remission for many years, I discovered that my best survival treatment was to enjoy life to it's max!

Great people = Great fun!

Although I am very close to 70, I saw that a guy was beating me in age being 76 years old (50 years of kicks / Youtube)

Fuggit! I'm seventy and just had a near-death experience...out of the blue!  Late October, sitting down to watch a football game...chest pain...WTF...getting worse...luckily my wife was there...called 911...by then I was gone.  Tachycardia (300 bpm heart rate caused heart failure) Luckily, EMT's were close by...zapped me back to the land of the living.  Everyone there thought I was dead - gray color, eyes open, no breathing, no-one home. Whew! Close call.   I got that problem fixed...and am just now getting my riding mojo back.

What has this got to do with anything? LOL... well, this monday a shiny new Gas Gas Contact 250 is being delivered to my doorstep. (Electric start 250...good reviews, relatively lower price).  This model has a detachable seat and slightly larger tank so it can be reasonably used for trail riding.  I've been wanting to do more trials-like stuff for years, my Xtrainer is a hoot and I want to be able to do even more with it, but it is still a bit heavy for a lot of the maneuvers that I need to practice on. 

If you can live within your means, by all means, live it up.

Edited by kawagumby
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4 hours ago, kawagumby said:

Fuggit! I'm seventy and just had a near-death experience...out of the blue!  Late October, sitting down to watch a football game...chest pain...WTF...getting worse...luckily my wife was there...called 911...by then I was gone.  Tachycardia (300 bpm heart rate caused heart failure) Luckily, EMT's were close by...zapped me back to the land of the living.  Everyone there thought I was dead - gray color, eyes open, no breathing, no-one home. Whew! Close call.   I got that problem fixed...and am just now getting my riding mojo back.

What has this got to do with anything? LOL... well, this monday a shiny new Gas Gas Contact 250 is being delivered to my doorstep. (Electric start 250...good reviews, relatively lower price).  This model has a detachable seat and slightly larger tank so it can be reasonably used for trail riding.  I've been wanting to do more trials-like stuff for years, my Xtrainer is a hoot and I want to be able to do even more with it, but it is still a bit heavy for a lot of the maneuvers that I need to practice on. 

If you can live within your means, by all means, live it up.

kawagumby,

We are survivors and I think that for many people, finding a passion to live for does help "hanging on" to Living an helps fighting the "Invadors/sickness".

Any passion is good whatever works for surviving!

Cheers

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On 31/01/2018 at 1:20 PM, ccullins said:

That's the kind of question you'll get 50 different answers on. Like which truck is best, which oil is best etc.

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I've had and  competed on everything from a 320cc Sherco four stroke to 125cc two strokes and everything in between. The one thing that was consistent was my results never changed. 

So starting with the 260 Montesa, it can be a very good first trials bike. It is mild and very easy to live with. They are like an older Honda, just always start up and go without any fuss. Basic handling traits are good even though they are a little on the heavy side. The thing some people have problem with is the typical slight EFI jerky feeling right off idle. Some guys don't even notice it while other guys struggle with riding it smooth. It was never an issue for me when I had one. I would say since it's a demo bike see if you can take it for a ride and see what you think. 

A 125 can be good if your riding strictly sections. Even though they only weight a few pounds less they ride like they're 15 pounds less. I really like 125's, however they totally suck on the trail! Seems you can never find the right gear. I hated riding 125's on the loop. 

200's are what I think most people should start with. They are really great bikes! Problem is Beta is the only one who has built one in the last several years and that's in small numbers. Very hard to find and if you do snatch it up! 

250's can also be hard to find and would be a good choice. Obviously I think Betas are the best way to go! However a nice used something else should serve you well also. 

300-290-280's are the most popular depending on year and brand a 300 might actually be tamer/slower revving than a 280. It's not too hard to tame down a trials bike though. Hearing it down and putting a slow action throttle on can do wonders. Also you can get heavier flywheel weights for most bikes and some even a low compression head. 

A few years ago I had a female Trials rider who wanted a new 250, however they where all sold out. So I built her a 2.9 Sherco with a low compression head, flywheel weight, slow turn throttle and a 9t front sprocket. Thing was a total tractor that wouldn't stall and had zero hit. She loved it!

ccullins,

1) I found a Beta Evo 200 Trials Bike 2010, it is quite old (2010)  so I don't know if getting parts is a problem and how reliable it would be?? Fork seal to be done.

Price is $4,500 Canadian.

2) There is the 260 Montesa at $7,700. I would have to check the throttle as you mentioned...The weight of the Montesa 260 bike is 160 pounds with all liquid. It is a Demo and they say +/-12 hours.

3) My right leg is an old dammage leg and I was told you have to kick very hard and that it was demanding on your leg to get it started? Do you agree it is that hard to push on the kick starter... That much compression? I am old and I weight 140 pounds or you feel it is not an issue to kick start and run??

I am tempted by both. I like the fact the Montesa is sold by a dealer so proof of sale and the price is reasonnable.

The Beta is quite old and pricy at $4,500 compare to $7,700 for almost a brand new bike with a seat! The Beta comes with no papers ownership.../ not insurable...

Your reply and opinion is very valuable for me if you have time for me! specially is it that hard to kick start?

Others are welcome to comments! Welcome for your help and thanks in advance. :banghead:

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I'm really wanting to get an up close look at a Evo 200 sport.  I've never owned a trials bike but they look like a lot of fun, just don't want t to make a 7k mistake.  Was considering a XT but thought there may be to much overlap for me with my 350excf, but that's not a problem with the Evo.  Just not much info out there on them that I can find.  

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