Trials Crosstraining

[Bron-Yr-Aur]

Excellent videos! Lol yeah I saw both guys on the last video. I haven't had the chance to see all yet, but I'll watch them later today. Thanks so much for posting. I'll let him know they're up...

[Survivor]

Hi!

I run my 2016 X Trainer with Nitromousse / Front and Nuetech Tubliss / Rear. What is recommended for the Trial Beta Evo 200 to stay flat free as much as possible. As it will be my first season in Trials, excuse my lack of knowledge in Trials.

I also learned that in the Ottawa region, there is only +/- 13 members in the Trial club....Hard to understand how few are trying and staying in Trial riding as there are a three to four hundreds riding in trails??? Is it that it is so hard to learn Trial riding. Or the frustration of learning it. Or the perseverance at practicing. Or the need to get together as a group to be stronger and organise as good as we can as a group?? I am sure the Ones in place try very hard to recruit but maybe we need to really give it a hard look. Would inviting a very good Trial rider a couple of time in the season for learning session help? 

I sure Welcome your input and ideas to help developing Trials riding here. Maybe the Vast areas available for Trail riding doesn't help??

Thanks to all of you again for your help and support!

[ccullins]

1 hour ago, Survivor said:

Hi!

I run my 2016 X Trainer with Nitromousse / Front and Nuetech Tubliss / Rear. What is recommended for the Trial Beta Evo 200 to stay flat free as much as possible. As it will be my first season in Trials, excuse my lack of knowledge in Trials.

I also learned that in the Ottawa region, there is only +/- 13 members in the Trial club....Hard to understand how few are trying and staying in Trial riding as there are a three to four hundreds riding in trails??? Is it that it is so hard to learn Trial riding. Or the frustration of learning it. Or the perseverance at practicing. Or the need to get together as a group to be stronger and organise as good as we can as a group?? I am sure the Ones in place try very hard to recruit but maybe we need to really give it a hard look. Would inviting a very good Trial rider a couple of time in the season for learning session help? 

I sure Welcome your input and ideas to help developing Trials riding here. Maybe the Vast areas available for Trail riding doesn't help??

Thanks to all of you again for your help and support!

About 5psi in the front and 4 in the rear. For really slick conditions might drop it a little more. 

To prevent flats you can put slime in your front tube, but don't do it in your tubeless rear. It'll mess up your rim. Just keep some automotive tire plugs with you. Very quick and easy to fix a rear puncture. Trials tire will live out its life just fine with plugs in it. 

How to grow the sport? That's been beat to death and tried a bunch of things. Now I just don't worry about it and enjoy myself. Been some fluctuations, but been about the same size the 18 years I've been in it. 

[Survivor]

On 29/01/2018 at 11:37 PM, M.Roman said:

There isn't many forums talking about trials, and how it is related to offroad riding so I decided to start this thread. When it comes to offroad riding a trials bike (IMO) is pivotal to advancing your skills past the average level and yet there isn't a lot of media expressing this. If you look at the top world riders you'll find over and over that they come from a trials background. I've ridden trials for over 3 years and have seen every bit of the skills transfer over, and most noticeably when I ride trials the day before enduro. Probably the most important skill I've honed is balance. You can spend 30 minutes at the end of your work day riding in your yard, or driveway just to get some training in. I can't even count the amount of times I got on to ride for a short bit, then notice an hours gone flying by! Since then I've noticed the trials riding consistently prepares me mentally for bigger hits on my enduro bike; straight rock faces, gnarly drop ins, mossy stream/rock gardens, all stuff that people consider hard enduro. On top of all that, the trials bike allows me to scope out new areas to make trails in remote spots that some people won't even hike, let alone take a full size bike through. And who doesn't like brand new single track??!

Where can I buy a shorter shifter lever for the Beta Evo 200. My friend as size boots  15, no problem for him but I have a size 8 and a shorter shifter lever will be needed for me. When I sat on the Beta Evo the other day, I could not reach it at all! For my 2016 X Trainer, I bought a shifter lever from Honda as the Forum suggested.

Thanks for your help.

[Andrew Graham]

While you could get a shorter shifter, you will find trials bikes have the shifters fwd and are usually ridden in the gear you planned on .( the old school bultacos used to install them straight up to keep them out of harms way ).That’s also why many jump all over poor gear spacing and transmission performance on many brands , but they were not designed to be shifting like a Motocross bike .  The design is you walk the section and organize in your mind how to ride it and what gear you will be in .  Rarely do you see trials competitions where riders change gear while moving 

[ccullins]

51 minutes ago, Survivor said:

Where can I buy a shorter shifter lever for the Beta Evo 200. My friend as size boots  15, no problem for him but I have a size 8 and a shorter shifter lever will be needed for me. When I sat on the Beta Evo the other day, I could not reach it at all! For my 2016 X Trainer, I bought a shifter lever from Honda as the Forum suggested.

Thanks for your help.

Beta USA makes shorter shift levers and any Beta dealer can get them for you. Beta USA has stock shift levers cut down. 

However as Andrew said I wouldn't do it, actually I should say I don't do it. Trials bikes aren't meant to be shifted with you foot on the peg. When doing trials moves you can be all over the bike and don't want the shift lever to be in the way accidental being knocked into neutral. Even when shifting in sections it's no big deal to lift your foot too it. And on the loop it's not even a thought to lift your foot and bang through the gears. 

[Survivor]

6 hours ago, Andrew Graham said:

While you could get a shorter shifter, you will find trials bikes have the shifters fwd and are usually ridden in the gear you planned on .( the old school bultacos used to install them straight up to keep them out of harms way ).That’s also why many jump all over poor gear spacing and transmission performance on many brands , but they were not designed to be shifting like a Motocross bike .  The design is you walk the section and organize in your mind how to ride it and what gear you will be in .  Rarely do you see trials competitions where riders change gear while moving 

 

6 hours ago, ccullins said:

Beta USA makes shorter shift levers and any Beta dealer can get them for you. Beta USA has stock shift levers cut down. 

However as Andrew said I wouldn't do it, actually I should say I don't do it. Trials bikes aren't meant to be shifted with you foot on the peg. When doing trials moves you can be all over the bike and don't want the shift lever to be in the way accidental being knocked into neutral. Even when shifting in sections it's no big deal to lift your foot too it. And on the loop it's not even a thought to lift your foot and bang through the gears. 

Thank you guy's, I will follow your advice and learn to use the proper gear. I have learn something important again today for Trials riding, thanks a lot. We had a GPS training today with the Trail riding group and quite a few ask me if they could try my Trial bike once I get it delivered. Maybe I will be a good influence to get more members in Trial! But my main goal is to enjoy it and share my joy the others. Great idea  ccullins to have started that Trial Topic! My daughter and wife are also interested now that they saw the height of the Trial's bike and the weight.

[Survivor]

1 minute ago, Survivor said:

 

Thank you guy's, I will follow your advice and learn to use the proper gear. I have learn something important again today for Trials riding, thanks a lot. We had a GPS training today with the Trail riding group and quite a few ask me if they could try my Trial bike once I get it delivered. Maybe I will be a good influence to get more members in Trial! But my main goal is to enjoy it and share my joy the others. Great idea  ccullins to have started that Trial Topic! My daughter and wife are also interested now that they saw the height of the Trial's bike and the weight.

Sorry for my mistake, M. Roman started the Trial Cross-training Topic! Thanks M. Roman! ?

[JW1]

On 2/4/2018 at 6:18 PM, ccullins said:

Not sure why they would say that. Yes the 300's take a hard kick but not hard to start. The smaller bikes kick easy and pretty much always start 1st or 2nd kick. 

Stock springs should be good for you.  

I agree. My 04’ Beta Rev-3 (270cc) started everytime, usually on the first kick, with no drama, or herculean effort.  Being as it was my first 2 stroke bike in 50 years of riding dirt bikes, I was a bit apprehensive about reliability.  Those concerns were unfounded as it was a great handling, easily started, torquey bike. Had to sell it due to failing wrists and at 6’1” w/ @ 36” inseam, too much weight on the wrists along with constant clutch manipulation did me in. Sure do miss that bike as I learned a lot riding trials, but it has made a difference in trail riding my 520RS.

Edited February 11, 2018 by desertrat28

[Survivor]

On 08/02/2018 at 8:47 PM, ccullins said:

About 5psi in the front and 4 in the rear. For really slick conditions might drop it a little more. 

To prevent flats you can put slime in your front tube, but don't do it in your tubeless rear. It'll mess up your rim. Just keep some automotive tire plugs with you. Very quick and easy to fix a rear puncture. Trials tire will live out its life just fine with plugs in it. 

How to grow the sport? That's been beat to death and tried a bunch of things. Now I just don't worry about it and enjoy myself. Been some fluctuations, but been about the same size the 18 years I've been in it. 

ccullins and Beta Evo 200 riders,

I have read that the Montesa 260 is a little hard to loft the front wheel (Dirt Rider review)  or not as easy as the 300.

As I am going with the Beta Evo 200 (if delivered by Beta as intended, not a 100% sure), is the Beta Evo 200 like the Montesa 260 and a little harder to loft the front wheel?

Should I think about the 250 four or two strokes or stick with the Evo 200?

Being a beginner with damage knees, I still want to be able to loft the front wheel with ease when I get to that phase in my Trial training.

Thanks a lot for all your support!

[Sierra_rider]

1 hour ago, Survivor said:

ccullins and Beta Evo 200 riders,

I have read that the Montesa 260 is a little hard to loft the front wheel (Dirt Rider review)  or not as easy as the 300.

As I am going with the Beta Evo 200 (if delivered by Beta as intended, not a 100% sure), is the Beta Evo 200 like the Montesa 260 and a little harder to loft the front wheel?

Should I think about the 250 four or two strokes or stick with the Evo 200?

Being a beginner with damage knees, I still want to be able to loft the front wheel with ease when I get to that phase in my Trial training.

Thanks a lot for all your support!

 

Lifting the front is mostly technique and has very little to do with power...don't even worry about it.

[weantright]

My son can lift the front on any bike just some he can ride for miles vs. others like a trials bike.

[kawagumby]

10 hours ago, Sierra_rider said:

 

Lifting the front is mostly technique and has very little to do with power...don't even worry about it.

This.  Survivor, I've been riding my new GasGas enough now to get a feel for this low-speed trials stuff. It's all about balance, weight shift, suspension preload and little to do with power. You can actually wheelie a light trials bike some with the engine off.  After just a little bit of practice, I'm popping the front end up for rocks, lizards, coke cans, dog poop, baby birds...LOL.... you get the idea.

I would like to argue with everyone that says kicking these bikes are easy.  My 250 gasgas is NOT, relative to a typical 250 two stroke. Yes, it is still new and tight, but that's not the whole issue.  Survivor is a very light person with damaged knees....I'm a bit heavier than he and also have damaged knees - we are both about the same age...70 years.  I can tell you that if the bike, for any reason, becomes a little hard to start, it will end up being unnecessarily miserable.  These bikes run noticeably higher compression than their trail bike counterparts.  So, I will finally shut up on this, but just say one last time, don't discount the e-start as being essential for a much more pleasurable riding experience given the age and physical condition. 

Edited February 13, 2018 by kawagumby

[Odysseus]

    So Ive now been on my trials bike about six or seven times and by all accounts have made rapid progress and feel that there may actually be some hope on the horizon.What was intended to be a means to an end,insofar the main purpose was to improve my enduro skills has me now considering taking a dedicated approach to the sport.                                                                                                  I often pondered what activity I would engage in that could match the excitement and physical challenge that spirited offload riding offers when I inevitability become to old and feeble to be able to perform with any skill and dignity.The steep learning curve in respect to trials that I have committed myself too has physically challenged, thrilled, frightened and satisfied me to a degree that I have not experienced for a very long time on a enduro bike. My only regret,I wish I would have started sooner.

Edited February 14, 2018 by widebear

[Survivor]

2 hours ago, kawagumby said:

This.  Survivor, I've been riding my new GasGas enough now to get a feel for this low-speed trials stuff. It's all about balance, weight shift, suspension preload and little to do with power. You can actually wheelie a light trials bike some with the engine off.  After just a little bit of practice, I'm popping the front end up for rocks, lizards, coke cans, dog poop, baby birds...LOL.... you get the idea.

I would like to argue with everyone that says kicking these bikes are easy.  My 250 gasgas is NOT, relative to a typical 250 two stroke. Yes, it is still new and tight, but that's not the whole issue.  Survivor is a very light person with damaged knees....I'm a bit heavier than he and also have damaged knees - we are both about the same age...70 years.  I can tell you that if the bike, for any reason, becomes a little hard to start, it will end up being unnecessarily miserable.  These bikes run noticeably higher compression than their trail bike counterparts.  So, I will finally shut up on this, but just say one last time, don't discount the e-start as being essential for a much more pleasurable riding experience given the age and physical condition. 

kawagumby, are you happy so far with the ES and the reliability of the Electric Starter ? With the riding you have done so far, how does the suspension feels like and the bike overall? Is the bike giving you what you expected? Carburator OK? Let me know how you feel about the bike as you progress if you have time. Thanks for your input.

[kawagumby]

I love the bike...it is very fun to ride, and the seat is nice when you want to stop and rest but not get off the bike.  The suspension seems very good to me, and works well for my 150 lbs.  I'm going over smaller obstacles with no issues of too little or too much rebound.  The bike runs perfectly - the engine and tranny, etc. are the same as the more expensive TXT model with more adjustable suspension.

The e-start is critical for me.  When I ride a lot, as I have recently, I get sore. I have kick-started this bike several times, but when I'm sore it is not fun and makes pain worse.  The e-start worked perfect at first, but declined very quickly - and I have determined it was due to the dealer not completely charging the lithium battery, a poor battery post connection, and a rich fuel mixture.  Others who have the same bike have told me that they have not had those problems, so I think it is almost 100% a dealer prep issue.  Without the e-start I would not be riding as much - that is a fact. 

Here is the thread with more detail my e-start issue :

BTW, the carb is the Dellorto that has been used for many years on trials bikes.  It works perfectly, no flat spots, etc.  The plug showed a rich mixture but that was easily adjusted with the mixture screw as noted in the thread above.

Edited February 13, 2018 by kawagumby

[Adam ES]

I followed the first page of the thread but anyway, I have had a trials bike for about 1.5 years now. I try pretty damn hard to learn the proper techniques on it mainly for cross training purposes. I felt like I wasn't doing anything better on my 300rr besides balance. Until I rode with some guys at a local park, random pple, I went there solo and they where trying the technical stuff I was. We talked and I rode with them, 30 min into the ride they asked me if i did trials riding. I got a big smile a said Yeah. Guess it paid off some but still a long ways too go... trials is fun wish I would have started along time ago.

[DirtJunkie69]

10 hours ago, Adam ES said:

I followed the first page of the thread but anyway, I have had a trials bike for about 1.5 years now. I try pretty damn hard to learn the proper techniques on it mainly for cross training purposes. I felt like I wasn't doing anything better on my 300rr besides balance. Until I rode with some guys at a local park, random pple, I went there solo and they where trying the technical stuff I was. We talked and I rode with them, 30 min into the ride they asked me if i did trials riding. I got a big smile a said Yeah. Guess it paid off some but still a long ways too go... trials is fun wish I would have started along time ago.
 

So aside from some of the trials tricks I have learned in my 1 year with the bike and transferred to my 300rr, I feel the same way. The japzap on the 300rr is mostly a show-off thing right now but I hope to start being able to use it in the real world this year. Other than that, balance is the main thing I notice on the 300rr, which is huge. Balance is the essence of riding on 2 wheels, and I used to not care so much about it until I noticed what improving balance has done for my riding. 

Also depends on the type of riding i think. I don't have access to much extreme terrain, but I think the rougher it gets, the more the trials skills will show.

I do hope this endurocross track gets built near me. Depending on how technical, I don't think non-trials riders would have any interest in touching a technical EX track. So I think the trials skills will really shine there. I have a feeling that considering the locale, it's going to be more of a fast and jumpy track unfortunately. It's all about MX here, trials really doesn't exist in my state. 

 

[ccullins]

On 2/12/2018 at 8:13 PM, Survivor said:

ccullins and Beta Evo 200 riders,

I have read that the Montesa 260 is a little hard to loft the front wheel (Dirt Rider review)  or not as easy as the 300.

As I am going with the Beta Evo 200 (if delivered by Beta as intended, not a 100% sure), is the Beta Evo 200 like the Montesa 260 and a little harder to loft the front wheel?

Should I think about the 250 four or two strokes or stick with the Evo 200?

Being a beginner with damage knees, I still want to be able to loft the front wheel with ease when I get to that phase in my Trial training.

Thanks a lot for all your support!

Like others have said it's the rider not the bike for stuff like that. When they are doing reviews they need to find differences. Sure a Montesa might be a little heavier in the front, but it's by no means hard. A 200 Beta is lighter in the front end and would be easier to lift if I had to compare.

 

On 2/13/2018 at 10:07 AM, kawagumby said:

I love the bike...it is very fun to ride, and the seat is nice when you want to stop and rest but not get off the bike.  The suspension seems very good to me, and works well for my 150 lbs.  I'm going over smaller obstacles with no issues of too little or too much rebound.  The bike runs perfectly - the engine and tranny, etc. are the same as the more expensive TXT model with more adjustable suspension.

The e-start is critical for me.  When I ride a lot, as I have recently, I get sore. I have kick-started this bike several times, but when I'm sore it is not fun and makes pain worse.  The e-start worked perfect at first, but declined very quickly - and I have determined it was due to the dealer not completely charging the lithium battery, a poor battery post connection, and a rich fuel mixture.  Others who have the same bike have told me that they have not had those problems, so I think it is almost 100% a dealer prep issue.  Without the e-start I would not be riding as much - that is a fact. 

Here is the thread with more detail my e-start issue :

BTW, the carb is the Dellorto that has been used for many years on trials bikes.  It works perfectly, no flat spots, etc.  The plug showed a rich mixture but that was easily adjusted with the mixture screw as noted in the thread above

Like he said that Dellorto has been around for years on trials bikes. It's a very durable carb that has no issues. A Kehien will have a tendency to get a clogged pilot jet from time to time on the trials bike. That doesn't happen with the round slide Dellorto. 

[TM.Tyler]

Survivor,

I picked up a '17 Evo 200 around this time last year. I was able to ride a '17 contact 250 and 280 before I ordered my bike and it made the decision very difficult. What made me buy the Beta was all the talk of the build quality being far better. So far I've had no problems and it seems as well built as my '13 TM 300 and 09' Husaberg 570. Another consideration is that the Contact comes with a tube rear tire (not standard trials tubless) and a Perelli MT 43, which is a harder compound and not as sticky as Michelin that comes on the betas. The Dellorto Carbs seem to be more the standard in trials bike than anything else but I've only ever Keihin carbs and they've worked great.

The first time I rode the bike it did seem that front wheel was a little hard to lift. After some tweaking of the throttle (removed the initial dead zone) and upped the pilot jet (48 to 50), the bike seems much easier to get the front up. This may also be that the engine has now broken in, and with a little more experience, I have learned that pre-load is much more important than throttle, like others have said.

As for starting, I had never kicked a bike over with my left leg before the Evo 200 and I have never had an issue starting it. Even if it is below freezing, my bike will start with one or two deliberate kicks. Just make sure to find the compression before you kick with all your force or the kick start gear can break in these little bikes. But as far as difficulty, I would say its one of the easier bikes I've kicked over and electric start would not be necessary.