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Trials Crosstraining

126 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Cabo said:

I'm really wanting to get an up close look at a Evo 200 sport.  I've never owned a trials bike but they look like a lot of fun, just don't want t to make a 7k mistake.  Was considering a XT but thought there may be to much overlap for me with my 350excf, but that's not a problem with the Evo.  Just not much info out there on them that I can find.  

The XT feels like a dirt bike pretty much. Just a bit lighter, tighter steering angle, etc. The KTM Freeride feels much closer to a trials bike.

They might look fun, and they are, but there's some things you need to be aware of. First, you might hate it when you first start out. The stance uses different muscles, and you obviously can't sit down to rest, so your body will probably hurt for a bit. The first step is pushing past this and getting used to the stance - frequent breaks may be needed. If you are a lazy rider, you will really be in for it - you can't be lazy on the trials bike. The relatively light weight and low center of gravity, do not make the stuff you did on your dirt bike easier. All it does is highlight the errors in your technique (on the other hand, this means it's easier to identify mistakes and fix your technique).

Next thing, trials is extremely frustrating and that is something that will never change as long as you keep pushing yourself. The reward for that frustration is a massive sense of accomplishment when you do learn something new or get past that obstacle or section without a foot down. I think overall it's more difficult to ride trials well and learn everything thanks to the fact that dabbing is against the rules. However it's also generally safer with more controllable crashes and dismounts, so less damage to you and the bike so you can keep practicing. If your goal is to transfer the skills to the dirt bike, they transfer very well, and it certainly is easier to learn them on the trials bike first. But you get out what you put in - lots of folks get trials bikes thinking it will be easy. It isn't. Then they collect dust in the garage because they decide it takes too much effort to learn proper technique.

Hope this helps. I got my '08 Beta Rev 3 a year ago, and now I'm doing obstacles on the dirt bike I once only dreamed of. This was a result of focusing on a specific couple of techniques 2-3 times a week for 1-2 hrs for 6 months. This may be small potatoes to some, and there are plenty of kids that would put me to shame, but for me this has made it all worth it.

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1 hour ago, jacob429 said:

The XT feels like a dirt bike pretty much. Just a bit lighter, tighter steering angle, etc. The KTM Freeride feels much closer to a trials bike.

They might look fun, and they are, but there's some things you need to be aware of. First, you might hate it when you first start out. The stance uses different muscles, and you obviously can't sit down to rest, so your body will probably hurt for a bit. The first step is pushing past this and getting used to the stance - frequent breaks may be needed. If you are a lazy rider, you will really be in for it - you can't be lazy on the trials bike. The relatively light weight and low center of gravity, do not make the stuff you did on your dirt bike easier. All it does is highlight the errors in your technique (on the other hand, this means it's easier to identify mistakes and fix your technique).

Next thing, trials is extremely frustrating and that is something that will never change as long as you keep pushing yourself. The reward for that frustration is a massive sense of accomplishment when you do learn something new or get past that obstacle or section without a foot down. I think overall it's more difficult to ride trials well and learn everything thanks to the fact that dabbing is against the rules. However it's also generally safer with more controllable crashes and dismounts, so less damage to you and the bike so you can keep practicing. If your goal is to transfer the skills to the dirt bike, they transfer very well, and it certainly is easier to learn them on the trials bike first. But you get out what you put in - lots of folks get trials bikes thinking it will be easy. It isn't. Then they collect dust in the garage because they decide it takes too much effort to learn proper technique.

Hope this helps. I got my '08 Beta Rev 3 a year ago, and now I'm doing obstacles on the dirt bike I once only dreamed of. This was a result of focusing on a specific couple of techniques 2-3 times a week for 1-2 hrs for 6 months. This may be small potatoes to some, and there are plenty of kids that would put me to shame, but for me this has made it all worth it.

 

The word I use for trials is "humbling." I feel like a great rider whenever I'm on one of my dirtbikes...however, I go ride trials with a couple Expert riders and I realize how much I've yet to learn. In a way it's more fun, as it's a challenge for me.

Totally agree that the fundamentals of technical riding are easier to learn on a trials bike. The way I describe it to my enduro friends, is that you are attempting the obstacles at a much slower pace riding trials...therefore you can actually think about what you are doing. 

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4 hours ago, Cabo said:

I'm really wanting to get an up close look at a Evo 200 sport.  I've never owned a trials bike but they look like a lot of fun, just don't want t to make a 7k mistake.  Was considering a XT but thought there may be to much overlap for me with my 350excf, but that's not a problem with the Evo.  Just not much info out there on them that I can find.  

The Betas are really smooth, I haven't spoken to one person who hasn't mention the smoothness of Betas power delivery! With that said their build quality is by far outstanding, and like ccullins mentioned, they're solid. I know a few guys who had models dating back to the late 90's and the same was said for strength, and build quality. The newer Betas with the Hydro-formed frames have a 3/4 gallon tank, and with the accessory tank you'll get a ton of riding out of one fill up 👌🏻👌🏻 If you have a dealer near by trust me you won't be wasting your time.

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I’d love an electric trials bike that I can use in the yard and not annoy my suburban neighbors.  It would be just awesome to come home from work and practice for an hour or so each day.

Do they make any adult sized electric trials bikes?  I have only seen the kids version.

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3 hours ago, RDTH said:

I’d love an electric trials bike that I can use in the yard and not annoy my suburban neighbors.  It would be just awesome to come home from work and practice for an hour or so each day.

Do they make any adult sized electric trials bikes?  I have only seen the kids version.

Pittbull (a TT member) has one, maybe he'll see this thread.

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ccullins,
.



3) My right leg is an old dammage leg and I was told you have to kick very hard and that it was demanding on your leg to get it started? Do you agree it is that hard to push on the kick starter... That much compression? I am old and I weight 140 pounds or you feel it is not an issue to kick start and run??







Others are welcome to comments! Welcome for your help and thanks in advance. :banghead:


You are right, they have a hard kick because they have a short kick starter and good compression. You could try a Beta, they kick on the left.

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I’d love an electric trials bike that I can use in the yard and not annoy my suburban neighbors.  It would be just awesome to come home from work and practice for an hour or so each day.
Do they make any adult sized electric trials bikes?  I have only seen the kids version.
I've seen full size on the web by brands I've never heard of but they are 10k ish. The Oset 24 interests me, it's much more reasonable, but also not quite full size.

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10 hours ago, jacob429 said:

The XT feels like a dirt bike pretty much. Just a bit lighter, tighter steering angle, etc. The KTM Freeride feels much closer to a trials bike.

They might look fun, and they are, but there's some things you need to be aware of. First, you might hate it when you first start out. The stance uses different muscles, and you obviously can't sit down to rest, so your body will probably hurt for a bit. The first step is pushing past this and getting used to the stance - frequent breaks may be needed. If you are a lazy rider, you will really be in for it - you can't be lazy on the trials bike. The relatively light weight and low center of gravity, do not make the stuff you did on your dirt bike easier. All it does is highlight the errors in your technique (on the other hand, this means it's easier to identify mistakes and fix your technique).

Next thing, trials is extremely frustrating and that is something that will never change as long as you keep pushing yourself. The reward for that frustration is a massive sense of accomplishment when you do learn something new or get past that obstacle or section without a foot down. I think overall it's more difficult to ride trials well and learn everything thanks to the fact that dabbing is against the rules. However it's also generally safer with more controllable crashes and dismounts, so less damage to you and the bike so you can keep practicing. If your goal is to transfer the skills to the dirt bike, they transfer very well, and it certainly is easier to learn them on the trials bike first. But you get out what you put in - lots of folks get trials bikes thinking it will be easy. It isn't. Then they collect dust in the garage because they decide it takes too much effort to learn proper technique.

Hope this helps. I got my '08 Beta Rev 3 a year ago, and now I'm doing obstacles on the dirt bike I once only dreamed of. This was a result of focusing on a specific couple of techniques 2-3 times a week for 1-2 hrs for 6 months. This may be small potatoes to some, and there are plenty of kids that would put me to shame, but for me this has made it all worth it.

Frustrating isn't a problem for me, I'm old (51) and just starting out on a dirtbike and have developed patience (no choice).  I rode sportbikes all my life and 3 wheelers when I was young, moved to the country in southern Indiana found some guys my age and started riding dirtbikes with them, they're way better than I am but we all have a blast.  Since I have no practical experience on a trials bike I was thinking the Evo Sport (seat/tank) would allow me to practice/play around on my 6 acres and take it to the trails when we're not going to be hitting any roads when we go riding.  I have a lot of free time to practice (I'm single) and have plenty of room to build about any obstacles I want.  I doubt I'd ever do any formal trials riding as I don't think there are any clubs in my area, at least that I've found but would love to try that.  I guess I'm looking to make up for years of lost time not riding dirtbikes, or maybe even making the trials bike my primary ride as I'm already slow so I got that part nailed and using the 350 for more dual sport riding where a trials bike wouldn't be practical.  There's a Beta dealer in Louisville, thinking about riding over there today and seeing what they got or if they carry any used stuff.  Tks everyone for all the info, really appreciate it, keep it coming.        

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Not the most comfortable position to be in but a great learning tool that carries beyond just motorcycling.


Only until you start reaping the mental benefits of control. After riding trials only a short time, standing is now my default position on my enduro bike. Rode about 25 miles single track/quad trails this past Monday. At a minimum, I rode 24 of it standing lol.


I've got Tim Coleman coming here in May, and Jarvis again in the fall, so I have lot's of practicing to work on!


??? Is this personal or for a class? Can I come too??? :)

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16 hours ago, Survivor said:

ccullins,

1) I found a Beta Evo 200 Trials Bike 2010, it is quite old (2010)  so I don't know if getting parts is a problem and how reliable it would be?? Fork seal to be done.

Price is $4,500 Canadian.

2) There is the 260 Montesa at $7,700. I would have to check the throttle as you mentioned...The weight of the Montesa 260 bike is 160 pounds with all liquid. It is a Demo and they say +/-12 hours.

3) My right leg is an old dammage leg and I was told you have to kick very hard and that it was demanding on your leg to get it started? Do you agree it is that hard to push on the kick starter... That much compression? I am old and I weight 140 pounds or you feel it is not an issue to kick start and run??

I am tempted by both. I like the fact the Montesa is sold by a dealer so proof of sale and the price is reasonnable.

The Beta is quite old and pricy at $4,500 compare to $7,700 for almost a brand new bike with a seat! The Beta comes with no papers ownership.../ not insurable...

Your reply and opinion is very valuable for me if you have time for me! specially is it that hard to kick start?

Others are welcome to comments! Welcome for your help and thanks in advance. :banghead:

It's hard to judge Canadian value, but I know prices are higher up there. If it was in really good shape I could see the 200 being 3500 down here. Parts aren't a problem, it's the same basic platform that they are still using today. Fork seal would be the same as a new bike.

Papers/Insurance is obviously an issue if you need those. I don't know how important that is up there. 

I don't think it's hard at all the push the Montesa kickstart through. The thing I see is some guys trying to start it like a 2 stroke and take hard quick stabs at it and it doesn't start. It instead needs a slower push through of the kickstarter to get the fourstroke EFI motor going. Larger two stroke trials bikes do require a good hard kick. Especially with their small kickstarters. The Beta 200 would be easier to start and you would probably be one of the few guys who would appreciate the left hand kick. 

If they where both same year/condition I would say go with the 200, but they aren't. The Montesa should give you zero trouble  maintenance wise and will last forever. If you try it and have no problem starting it and the power feels smooth I would probably lean that direction over an 8 year old bike with no papers. 

 

 

Edited by ccullins
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6 hours ago, RDTH said:

I’d love an electric trials bike that I can use in the yard and not annoy my suburban neighbors.  It would be just awesome to come home from work and practice for an hour or so each day.

Do they make any adult sized electric trials bikes?  I have only seen the kids version.

Trials bikes are really quiet. I have a little less than an acre with houses all around. We can ride here all the time and no bother anyone. In fact when my kids are out riding and I'm in the the I can't hardly even hear them. 

I've ridden the electric bikes. Not impressed at all. Plus you lose the benefits of learning throttle/clutch control that would transfer over to a regular bike. 

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Electric Motion makes full sized trials bikes that are very capable.  They also make one with a seat and bigger battery targeted at trail riding.  Check out the latest Traction eRag for some great action shots (found them here: https://www.cecilegambin.com/category/motorcycles-2/).  I've seen people competing on them so they are capable, but as mentioned they don't have a clutch so riding is a bit different.


I have a beta evo with the seat/tank kit (same as the 'sport', only difference is the sport comes with enduro tires).  The seat is only good for when you are stopped and having lunch, you cannot ride sitting down.  I am 5'9" and it is way too low (see picture).  So you are always in trials mode.  But it carries a lot of gas, probably enough for 8 hour of riding, and on the flip side you hardly notice it when riding.  Also, it is very easy to swap the tank on and off, highly recommended purchase if you want to go trail riding.

Trials riding is awesome and it's made such a huge difference to riding my big bike.  I only started riding dirt last year (many years road racing and street riding) and I feel that it really accelerated things for me and I'm much more confident in difficult terrain now.  Still so much to work on, but at least I can get around as we don't really have easy trails out here.
 

27537615_1665107593534932_165256_o.jpg

Edited by drewnabobber
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2 hours ago, ccullins said:

Trials bikes are really quiet. I have a little less than an acre with houses all around. We can ride here all the time and no bother anyone. In fact when my kids are out riding and I'm in the the I can't hardly even hear them. 

I've ridden the electric bikes. Not impressed at all. Plus you lose the benefits of learning throttle/clutch control that would transfer over to a regular bike. 

Yeah, the lack of clutch is a disadvantage, but for me the idea of an e-trials bike is more about ride time and utilization.  

The closest riding area to me is about an hour away, plus loading/unloading, so my usual enduro type rides are always a full day affair, once a week at best.  Unfortunately here in the burbs we have 1/3 acre sized lots, houses everywhere, and I just can't run a gasoline bike in the yard with any regularity.  

So I thought with an electric trials bike, I could practice balance and low speed handling, build some obstacles, putz around and just generally have some fun and hopefully improve my overall riding skills for the weekend enduro rides.

 

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1 hour ago, RDTH said:

So I thought with an electric trials bike, I could practice balance and low speed handling, build some obstacles, putz around and just generally have some fun and hopefully improve my overall riding skills for the weekend enduro rides.

 

Well there’s no doubt electric seems like your best bet, but it sounds like it comes down to one question; is it worth the amount of money you’ll spend on either a used full size bike, or new Oset 24? Ryan Young Products has some media they share, and since becoming an Oset Dealer have been pushing the 24.0. You’ll find Pat Smage doing some cool stuff on the bike in their feed so by all means check it out!

http://rypusa.com/ryp-tv-1/

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22 hours ago, Bron-Yr-Aur said:

??? Is this personal or for a class? Can I come too???

They will be classes.  I don't have the exact dates yet but will post them on my website when we open enrollment.  www.RealEnduro.Com

 

Most likely both classes will be in Hancock NY

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On 02/02/2018 at 9:51 AM, ccullins said:

It's hard to judge Canadian value, but I know prices are higher up there. If it was in really good shape I could see the 200 being 3500 down here. Parts aren't a problem, it's the same basic platform that they are still using today. Fork seal would be the same as a new bike.

Papers/Insurance is obviously an issue if you need those. I don't know how important that is up there. 

I don't think it's hard at all the push the Montesa kickstart through. The thing I see is some guys trying to start it like a 2 stroke and take hard quick stabs at it and it doesn't start. It instead needs a slower push through of the kickstarter to get the fourstroke EFI motor going. Larger two stroke trials bikes do require a good hard kick. Especially with their small kickstarters. The Beta 200 would be easier to start and you would probably be one of the few guys who would appreciate the left hand kick. 

If they where both same year/condition I would say go with the 200, but they aren't. The Montesa should give you zero trouble  maintenance wise and will last forever. If you try it and have no problem starting it and the power feels smooth I would probably lean that direction over an 8 year old bike with no papers. 

 

 

ccullins and everyone that can help!

Being a brand new rookie for Trial and being close to 70 with only 3 years experience of dirt riding and damaged knees,  I have narrowed my search for a Trial motorcycle to the 2018 Beta Evo 200 or the Factory 125 (if I can get it in Canada). I have scratched out the Demo 2016 Montesa as per recommendations on this site as I am an old beginner  (if I am not wrong in my interpretation that it is too powerful for me, weight is only +/- 8 pounds difference, price is only $800 less than the 2018 Beta).

1) My question is  Beta 125 or 200. I love the Factory look and upgrades but could only afford the 125. If I am right, the 125 could hardly ride trails (lack of power) but the 200 could. Mind you, I have my 2016 X Trainer for trail riding...

Now, the optional seat (like the Beta Evo sport version)  which you use I think at pit stop only, my guess...Having bad knees, maybe it is worth having it (plus it includes a bigger fuel tank). For a reference, I ride my Beta X Trainer +/- 70 to 75% of the time standing up.

I would really appreciate your input and thanks a million from an old and happy new coming Trial rider.   :ride:

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ccullins and everyone that can help!
Being a brand new rookie for Trial and being close to 70 with only 3 years experience of dirt riding and damaged knees,  I have narrowed my search for a Trial motorcycle to the 2018 Beta Evo 200 or the Factory 125 (if I can get it in Canada). I have scratched out the Demo 2016 Montesa as per recommendations on this site as I am an old beginner  (if I am not wrong in my interpretation that it is too powerful for me, weight is only +/- 8 pounds difference, price is only $800 less than the 2018 Beta).
1) My question is  Beta 125 or 200. I love the Factory look and upgrades but could only afford the 125. If I am right, the 125 could hardly ride trails (lack of power) but the 200 could. Mind you, I have my 2016 X Trainer for trail riding...
Now, the optional seat (like the Beta Evo sport version)  which you use I think at pit stop only, my guess...Having bad knees, maybe it is worth having it (plus it includes a bigger fuel tank). For a reference, I ride my Beta X Trainer +/- 70 to 75% of the time standing up.
I would really appreciate your input and thanks a million from an old and happy new coming Trial rider.   :ride:

Not meaning any disrespect here, but given your age and health, I assume your goal isn't to splatter any 6' Rock faces? If so, I wouldn't discount the 125. I've not ridden one (they are extremely rare, at least around here) My buddy and I are fairly new at trials (I'm newer than he) but he recently rode a 125 and fell in love with it. He was shocked at the buttery smooth power delivery, and felt that the bike had more than enough power for either of us. He's around 5'11" and 190 lbs I believe. He said he felt it could handle most sections up to the expert class. He said if he had the money, he'd have both his Factory 300 and the 125, but most likely ride the 125 more often.

Trials bikes aren't anything like enduro/MX. 125 sounds tiny, but as with all bikes, I'd be skeptical of 'hearing' any advice on the Internet. Try to find one and ride it.

On the good side, 125's, being rare, tend to hold their value a little better than the bigger cc bikes.

Jmo
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11 minutes ago, Bron-Yr-Aur said:


Not meaning any disrespect here, but given your age and health, I assume your goal isn't to splatter any 6' Rock faces? If so, I wouldn't discount the 125. I've not ridden one (they are extremely rare, at least around here) My buddy and I are fairly new at trials (I'm newer than he) but he recently rode a 125 and fell in love with it. He was shocked at the buttery smooth power delivery, and felt that the bike had more than enough power for either of us. He's around 5'11" and 190 lbs I believe. He said he felt it could handle most sections up to the expert class. He said if he had the money, he'd have both his Factory 300 and the 125, but most likely ride the 125 more often.

Trials bikes aren't anything like enduro/MX. 125 sounds tiny, but as with all bikes, I'd be skeptical of 'hearing' any advice on the Internet. Try to find one and ride it.

On the good side, 125's, being rare, tend to hold their value a little better than the bigger cc bikes.

Jmo

Bron-Yr-Aur,

"Not meaning any disrespect here, but given your age and health, I assume your goal isn't to splatter any 6' Rock faces? " :cripple::naughty:     :lol: 

Hi! my friend, you sure brought laughter for me and my wife!

You are very respectful and don't worry, I will never attempt the 6' Rock face splatter :ride:

I find myself one of the luckiest old man to still be able to enjoy life and riding when the energy is there and on top of my age and damage good old body, cancer (as I wrote in a post earlier)  has been poking at me many times. In life, some are lucky others are not. I am one of the LUCKIEST MAN in the world and I thank all the Gods of this world for my luck (I am not a God believer but Gods of Air, Fire, Water, Yes) . To me Gods are everyone that does a good action when they can.

Thank you very much for your reply and I wish you as much fun as I have for years to come!

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Bron-Yr-Aur,
"Not meaning any disrespect here, but given your age and health, I assume your goal isn't to splatter any 6' Rock faces? " :cripple::naughty:     :lol: 
Hi! my friend, you sure brought laughter for me and my wife!
You are very respectful and don't worry, I will never attempt the 6' Rock face splatter :ride:
I find myself one of the luckiest old man to still be able to enjoy life and riding when the energy is there and on top of my age and damage good old body, cancer (as I wrote in a post earlier)  has been poking at me many times. In life, some are lucky others are not. I am one of the LUCKIEST MAN in the world and I thank all the Gods of this world for my luck (I am not a God believer but Gods of Air, Fire, Water, Yes) . To me Gods are everyone that does a good action when they can.
Thank you very much for your reply and I wish you as much fun as I have for years to come!

Lol glad you understood it how I meant. I'm behind you, but still ahead of many members here. I'm actually down to counting days until my 50th year, as opposed to counting years. So I've received my share of "aren't you a little old to be riding dirt bikes?" I feel similar about being fortunate with health. Never been in the hospital, nor has my 73 year old dad. So our family is doing well in that area.

My splatter comment was more reflective of my life and not so much directed at you. I keep watching trials vids and want SO BADLY to learn to do the stuff I see those guys doing. But then I remember my age, the healing factor, and that I have a family to support. So I'm just taking it easy and learning the basics (the embarrassing part) like balancing without forward movement, full lock turns and the like. I feel like I'll be doing the harder stuff eventually, but within reason, and when it's time.

I would like to share a little advice, if I may? Get trials specific boots. They are worth it, IMO, for the maneuverability and protection, and soles. I also prefer the trials 3/4 helmet so I can see. Watch plenty of videos, and practicepracticepracticepracticepractice. Then practice some more. Research this forum for advice. Some really great stuff has been written for the past 10 years or so.

The best info thus far I've gleaned (in the basics dept) is heavy feet, light hands. I'll try to find the post and share the link here. I worry about the guy who posted it, since I haven't heard from him in a while. But it was several paragraphs, and absolutely changed my riding after reading it 2x.

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I ride a beta 125 primarily on trails.  It is so much fun.  Not sure why you would think it couldn't do it.  I am not splatting huge faces, but I have never found a hill I couldn't get up or a log I couldn't get over.  Just twist the throttle and use your clutch, so much fun!  I think the 125 is great for trails because it is so smooth and manageable it doesn't tire you out, and it is much easier to start.  Mind you I am talking about extremely rugged trails that are build by trials riders for trials bikes.  If you're riding open trails built for motos, you will be disappointed on any trials bike.  Xtrainer is definitely a full-size moto and would be the biggest bike I'd take on the trails around here.  Went out with a friend who was on a 300 and he finished the ride by going to the dealer to look at a trials bike:
 


 

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