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1 hour ago, Survivor said:

ccullins and everyone that can help!

Being a brand new rookie for Trial and being close to 70 with only 3 years experience of dirt riding and damaged knees,  I have narrowed my search for a Trial motorcycle to the 2018 Beta Evo 200 or the Factory 125 (if I can get it in Canada). I have scratched out the Demo 2016 Montesa as per recommendations on this site as I am an old beginner  (if I am not wrong in my interpretation that it is too powerful for me, weight is only +/- 8 pounds difference, price is only $800 less than the 2018 Beta).

1) My question is  Beta 125 or 200. I love the Factory look and upgrades but could only afford the 125. If I am right, the 125 could hardly ride trails (lack of power) but the 200 could. Mind you, I have my 2016 X Trainer for trail riding...

Now, the optional seat (like the Beta Evo sport version)  which you use I think at pit stop only, my guess...Having bad knees, maybe it is worth having it (plus it includes a bigger fuel tank). For a reference, I ride my Beta X Trainer +/- 70 to 75% of the time standing up.

I would really appreciate your input and thanks a million from an old and happy new coming Trial rider.   :ride:

Great! Going new always makes things easier. 

I would really lean toward the 200. I say that with 7 125's having gone through the family, 5 Beta's and 2 Sherco's. I'm pushing 200 pounds and I had zero trouble  competing on a 125. For my  competitions  sake I made it out like I was at a big disadvantage, but I knew I wasn't-LOL

However a 200 if anything is even more easy to ride. It revs a little slower and has more bottom end. That makes it easier to ride in sections plus won't have you searching all over the place trying to find the correct gear on the loop. 

Also as an example my 14 year old son is on a 125 Beta and rides what would be Expert in most areas. We have a female friend who rides novice/Sportsman on a 200 Beta and loves it. Well they switched bikes. Both wanted their own bikes back! Cole felt it took too long for the 200 to go (Revs slow) and she thought his 125 was too on/off. 

Also the Factory's are cool, but the standard edition with the bare/silver frame and black wheels and fenders looks awesome in person!  And I usually don't like black plastic. 

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Agree that if you can get one, the 200 is the way to go. I just wanted to make the point that the 125 is totally capable and a ton of fun.  I got mine because I didn't want a 300 and the little beta came up for sale so I jumped on it.  If I could have found a 200 like the one mentioned earlier in the thread I would have got that.

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17 minutes ago, drewnabobber said:

Agree that if you can get one, the 200 is the way to go. I just wanted to make the point that the 125 is totally capable and a ton of fun.  I got mine because I didn't want a 300 and the little beta came up for sale so I jumped on it.  If I could have found a 200 like the one mentioned earlier in the thread I would have got that.

Thanks everyone for your replies and making this section so great for info.

The dealer where I ordered my Beta X Trainer knows very well my health condition and is really a nice guy (2 wheel performance in Canada).

He suggested to me for the Evo 200  to get the option for the seat and the bigger gas tank, Good Idea or Bad Idea...

Maybe good for my knees when I stop for a rest or a quick bite but I guess it must be +/- 8 to 10 more pounds (did not find the extra weight of seat and tank combo).

What do you guy's think?

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5 minutes ago, Survivor said:

He suggested to me for the Evo 200  to get the option for the seat and the bigger gas tank, Good Idea or Bad Idea...

Maybe good for my knees when I stop for a rest or a quick bite but I guess it must be +/- 8 to 10 more pounds (did not find the extra weight of seat and tank combo)

For what you want, it'd be a great idea. I've held the kits in store and they are no where near that weight dry (maybe 2-3 lbs). You can get a tremendous amount of run time out of it, and it's real easy to remove, and reinstall it once you mount it for the first time.

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Evo 200 with the seat/tank combo is the perfect bike for trail riding.  I have the tank on my bike, it works great and can be removed in about 2 minutes if you are doing some 'real' trials riding or a competition.  The weight is carried centrally and is better distributed than if you had it on your back or on a Hebo front mount tank.  The tank itself is very light and you hardly notice it when riding even if it is full of gas.

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39 minutes ago, ccullins said:

Also the Factory's are cool, but the standard edition with the bare/silver frame and black wheels and fenders looks awesome in person!

Just like the 2015s, the 18 Factory bikes look amazing! And the standard bikes are usually somewhat boring in comparison, but this year I cant argue with you! The dark combo has a lot of pop to it, and the brushed aluminum frame is a cool old look.

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2 hours ago, Survivor said:

He suggested to me for the Evo 200  to get the option for the seat and the bigger gas tank, Good Idea or Bad Idea...

Maybe good for my knees when I stop for a rest or a quick bite but I guess it must be +/- 8 to 10 more pounds (did not find the extra weight of seat and tank combo).

What do you guy's think?

I'm getting a Gas Gas 250 Contact next week.  It comes with the larger tank (3.7 qt) the seat, and an....Electric start.  Here in the US the MSRP is $5999, which is considerably less than most trials bikes out there.  The tank, seat add-on's I've priced were fairly expensive, so that cooled me to that idea on a std trials bike. I have read a lot of reviews on this bike, and virtually all that have ridden the bike have nothing but good to say about it.  The only drawbacks noted are the non-adjustable suspension (other than shock preload) and the tires are tube-type rather than tubeless.  The engine, tranny are the same as the more expensive 250 model.  Those same reviewers, all trials riders, say the suspension is good as-is, and will only be noticeable for those who are experienced intermediate or better, but even then, the result is not a bad ride, simply less accomplished at that level. One fellow who was heavier said a change of fork oil was all he needed to make the forks work for him.

If you're like me and often end up with upside-down bikes that have a habit of being harder to start as a result, the electric start is golden. It also has the kick start, BTW.  I have a great local Beta dealer who sells trials bikes (I bought both my Beta's from him), but the Beta trials bikes are pretty expensive, IMO, for someone who is not yet ready for prime-time, such as myself.

Here's one review with some spec's :   https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2017/08/18/2017-gas-gas-contact-250-review-dual-purpose-motorcycle/

Here's a video of some of Dirtrider mag's mx testers trying out the GG contract - you can get a feel for how the bike runs watching it.

https://www.dirtrider.com/fast-moto-guys-on-trials-bikes-video

 

Edited by kawagumby
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Wow that thing sounds tempting! That's an excellent price for a new trials bike.

 

My only concerns with GG are parts availability. I know it's newer, but Im so happy I've now got a Sherco after selling my TXT Pro 280. I can have the parts in just a few days, and virtually everything is available.

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I've talked with the dealer about parts and they say Gas Gas parts are no problem with quick delivery. I suspect, just like Beta, there is more time involved with going through a dealer, but that doesn't bother me.  As a matter of fact, the fellow delivering it has a Gas Gas himself.

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funny, I was out building trail today that looks just like that stuff...same amount of snow an all....that's great trail, my buddies and i build and ride trail like that on our full size enduro bikes, I'm on a beta 300rr right now, but may be picking up a TX300 very soon.  I had a trials bike a few years ago, but my herniated discs in my lower back wouldn't let me ride it for long without pain so it sat in the corner.  maybe if I stuck with it I would have been able to work through it?

As mentioned earlier in this thread after riding enduro for 20 years I thought I would get on the trials bike and master it in no time.  I got my ass handed to me!  I couldn't make it over obstacles that were simple on my enduro bike!  it's a whole different game!

Edited by WoodsRacerDotCom

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24 minutes ago, kawagumby said:

I've talked with the dealer about parts and they say Gas Gas parts are no problem with quick delivery. I suspect, just like Beta, there is more time involved with going through a dealer, but that doesn't bother me.  As a matter of fact, the fellow delivering it has a Gas Gas himself.

 

2 hours ago, Bron-Yr-Aur said:

Wow that thing sounds tempting! That's an excellent price for a new trials bike.

 

My only concerns with GG are parts availability. I know it's newer, but Im so happy I've now got a Sherco after selling my TXT Pro 280. I can have the parts in just a few days, and virtually everything is available.

Well, I was sold on the 2018 Beta Evo 200 with the combo seat/tank option but now this Electric Start "2018 Gas Gas 250 Compact ES" does get me thinking very hard although the following worries me:  I do not know Gas Gas at all...Dell'Orto Carburator (any good ??), non adjustable fork (Beta is way better with the Evo 200 for forks), I read that parts are hard to get from Gas Gas and Beta has a 6 months warranty. But Electric Start saves energy and my bad knees...I will see what knowledgeable guys like you think then I will go with one or the other after a night of "sleep on it". I have to say our dealer for Gas Gas / Langs Off Road is also very good. Price is not an issue as Gas Gas is being +/- $800 cheaper so it does not change anything for me.

Nice to have choices, I must say.

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The GG contact ES looks pretty cool.  Hopefully it will be easier to get parts and everything now that the company has restructured.  There is nothing fundamentally wrong with Gas Gas bikes.  I think it is still a little bit of a dice-roll compared to Beta; Beta is privately owned by the same family for decades, and the current design has been around a long time.  This is the beta forum...  But truly, there is no reason not to buy the Gas gas if the e-start is important to you.  The beta 200 will have better suspension, and the betas are the easiest to start of the current trials bikes (assuming kickstart).

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Not to bad mouth another brand, but I'll say this. Beta's build quality and reliability far exceeds the others. I ride with a lot of Trials riders and traveled the national circuit doing pit support for Beta. I can't remember ever seeing an internal motor issue with a Beta. However I'm not at all surprised when I see  transmission/shifting/kickstart issues with some other brands. They are way better than they where a few years ago, but still don't match Beta in that area. 

 

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21 minutes ago, ccullins said:

Not to bad mouth another brand, but I'll say this. Beta's build quality and reliability far exceeds the others. I ride with a lot of Trials riders and traveled the national circuit doing pit support for Beta. I can't remember ever seeing an internal motor issue with a Beta. However I'm not at all surprised when I see  transmission/shifting/kickstart issues with some other brands. They are way better than they where a few years ago, but still don't match Beta in that area. 

 

Thanks a lot cullins,

I am not a good rider nor a good mechanic but having a Beta X Trainer 2016 (with zero problems since 2015) and having read a lot of info on Beta Forum and Thumpertalk and many reviews on the web, your reply for Beta high quality and reliability confirm my decision that I will go next Monday to give my deposit on the Beta Evo 200 / Canada. I really like this section of Trials started by M.Roman, Trial is so big in Europe, hopefully, it will keep growing in USA and Canada. Mind you in Canada and USA, we have a lot more vast areas of country side to help having Trail riding which might influence the slow gain in Trial.

Thanks again to you for your knowledge and info!

Thanks also to everyone else!

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1 hour ago, Survivor said:

 

Well, I was sold on the 2018 Beta Evo 200 with the combo seat/tank option but now this Electric Start "2018 Gas Gas 250 Compact ES" does get me thinking very hard although the following worries me:  I do not know Gas Gas at all...Dell'Orto Carburator (any good ??), non adjustable fork (Beta is way better with the Evo 200 for forks), I read that parts are hard to get from Gas Gas and Beta has a 6 months warranty. But Electric Start saves energy and my bad knees...I will see what knowledgeable guys like you think then I will go with one or the other after a night of "sleep on it". I have to say our dealer for Gas Gas / Langs Off Road is also very good. Price is not an issue as Gas Gas is being +/- $800 cheaper so it does not change anything for me.

Nice to have choices, I must say.

The concern I'd have with the GasGas is that it's an old model reproduced for price point. The technology you'll get compared to the Beta won't be able to match up, even though it will perform fine as even an intermediate level machine. I met a fellow at an event who bought a 2017 Contact, flipped it over within weeks of buying it, and busted his airbox in doing so. Turns out the part was B/O for three and a half months even though he heard the same story about parts availability. Long story short he sold it to get a Beta lol.

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10 hours ago, ccullins said:

Not to bad mouth another brand, but I'll say this. Beta's build quality and reliability far exceeds the others. I ride with a lot of Trials riders and traveled the national circuit doing pit support for Beta. I can't remember ever seeing an internal motor issue with a Beta. However I'm not at all surprised when I see  transmission/shifting/kickstart issues with some other brands. They are way better than they where a few years ago, but still don't match Beta in that area. 

 

I question this post because you are a dealer and factory supported racer’s family. But you’re not alone and when I asked other dealers thier response was the same,,, pointing toward thier brand. I was even told brand “A” has more championship so it’s better. Facts are all brands are much better today from 5 years ago. Buy a brand with local support either with a dealer or club members. My list after reasearch was Beta and Sherco. Couldn’t find a clean Beta and the Sherco I bought was local. Otherwise I would have gotten a left over Beta shipped to me. One bike that looked really good was a TRS which I saw when I picked up my Sherco. Doesn’t seem well known or talked about. 

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Here in these parts, Sherco's are easy to find and to get parts for. But I hear tell there's a new Beta dealer coming locally to Altoona. So maybe we'll start seeing some around here?

 

Honestly had I the funds and a local dealer for support, I'd be looking at a new Beta 200 myself. I'd do more research and some test riding to be sure, but it would definitely be on my radar.

 

What I love about Beta (I could be wrong here) is that they seem to be a company whose main concern is getting people in the woods (enduro or trials), not an MX company who put out a couple woods machines as an afterthought.

 

Also, one more point about GasGas. I've heard from the local GG guy that they are changing mentality in favor of the corporate bull, like Honda and other big names, and are making it impossible to get parts from the little guys who've been breaking their backs selling their bikes for them. They only want their part sold from their dealers. So it's going to get even more difficult to get parts for them (if what I heard is true). This mentality has destroyed Triumph's fan base and dealers have been dropping off left and right. If GG does this, I have no pity on them for what consequences follow.

 

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1 hour ago, Bron-Yr-Aur said:

Also, one more point about GasGas. I've heard from the local GG guy that they are changing mentality in favor of the corporate bull, like Honda and other big names, and are making it impossible to get parts from the little guys who've been breaking their backs selling their bikes for them. They only want their part sold from their dealers. So it's going to get even more difficult to get parts for them (if what I heard is true). This mentality has destroyed Triumph's fan base and dealers have been dropping off left and right. If GG does this, I have no pity on them for what consequences follow.

 

I don't quite get what you're saying here.  Most smaller companies do just that... sell through their dealers only.  Even if the dealer is small, they can and do sell the parts.  Beta fits that description too, you normally need to buy though a dealer.  I've purchased many parts already for my Betas, some on-line dealers and some from the small dealership I bought the bikes from.  I can get OEM Japanese parts from just about anywhere.
In that respect, there is no doubt that smaller companies such as Beta, Gas Gas, Sherco etc. have somewhat a disadvantage to the larger companies such as Honda, Kaw, etc.  I can buy anything I want OEM for those bikes through several large on-line outfits that are not bike dealers, which is very convenient in terms of speed and cost. 

If anyone thinks Beta has a big advantage over other brands regarding some unusual parts, such as the Gas Gas air box another poster referred to, think again.  My personal experience with a kick-start kit for my Beta Xtrainer was kind of an eye-opener.  I bought it on-line from AOMX who I found out did not stock it, but ordered it from the warehouse in Paso Robles, CA (which is only about 2 hours from my home)!  You cannot buy the part directly from the warehouse.  So, I get the kit about two weeks later, and it is missing the very first part you need to assemble the kicker, a bracket that bolts to the engine case - a $10.00 item.

Aha...that uncommon item is not stocked in the US warehouse, except when included in the starter kit.  So 3 weeks go by, the part is ordered from overseas, my bike is torn down...I'm getting upset. After talking with AOMX about reasonable time frames...they order another full kit for themselves and send me the part they took from it. All is good, but it took nearly a month.  I don't know when they eventually got the part to complete their kit, but it took at least a month.
For most parts I just go through the mom & pop dealership I bought the Betas from.  It takes a little longer than Japanese bike parts, but so what.  In any case, as so many have said here before, probably for most people, the most important part of choosing brands, especially if you don't do your own wrenching, is the dealership that will be doing the work for you and ordering the parts.  Nothing beats the quality of the people you need to deal with when things go wrong.

 

Edited by kawagumby

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