M.Roman

Trials Crosstraining

174 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Survivor said:

Is the clutch drag still be a problem for the 2018 Beta Evo or has the problem been solved a while ago? If not fixed yet, what is the best fix? New carbon plates? Clean the glue? 

This has been a topic for a lot of guys I've talked to, not just with Betas but with all brands, and years. The transmissions regardless of make operate best with thinner than thicker oil. The best results I've had with Betas is a 5w30. Some guys have told me they've run ATF trans oil which sounds like the wrong choice to me but I've also seen them season after season out there. One thing is certain, every person who's talked about running a standard gear oil, like an 80w has a problem with clutch action. I can't say from experience that removing clutch springs would be something advisable, but if your looking for a lighter clutch pull it may not be a bad idea. Just keep in mind your pressure points on the pressure plate wont be evenly dispersed.

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They are good. I haven't worked on a Beta clutch in years! 



Well except I have removed two springs for my kids when they where younger. Gave the clutch a super easy pull and never had any slip issues, even when I rode their bikes. 

So removing springs seems to be a common solution. Any downsides to this?

My clutch on my Sherco is extremely fast, pretty much a light switch. I'm assuming because it was owned previously by a pro. Possibly S3 springs with the retainers (?) reversed. At least that's what ryp suggested as a possibility. One of the guys there suggested removing either 2 or 3 springs, opposing of course. Or buying new oem springs. He said it might slip in higher gears. But I'm only slightly north of 130 lbs.

I feel apprehensive about changing things that engineers have designed. But if there's a common solution with no drawbacks, I'm open to it. Just looking for validation, I guess :)
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Posted (edited)

When Sherco first recommended taking 3 springs out on my oldest son's Ty's 125 Sherco (he was 9 at the time) I questioned it too.  He then pointed to Cody Webb's 320cc Sherco fourstroke that he was riding at the time and said that's the same clutch, it'll be fine. 

From my experience with both Sherco's and Beta's, taking two springs out haven't noticed any slipping. 3 and it will slip under heavy loads/heavy rider. Best thing is it's really easy to do so if it doesn't work out you can always put them back in. For my own bike I don't like the feel of taking springs out. One of my riding buddies has a messed up left hand. When I sold him his 300SS Evo I took two out and it works great for him.

 

Edited by ccullins
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When Sherco first recommended taking 3 springs out on my oldest son's Ty's 125 Sherco (he was 9 at the time) I questioned it too.  He then pointed to Cody Webb's 320cc Sherco fourstroke that he was riding at the time and said that's the same clutch, it'll be fine. 
From my experience with both Sherco's and Beta's, taking two springs out haven't noticed any slipping. 3 and it will slip under heavy loads/heavy rider. Best thing is it's really easy to do so if it doesn't work out you can always put them back in. For my own bike I don't like the feel of taking springs out. One of my riding buddies has a messed up left hand. When I sold him his 300SS Evo I took two out and it works great for him.
 

Ok thanks. That's good info. Makes me feel a lot better. I'm going to give it a go here in the next 2 weeks. Just waiting for my fork oil to come in so I can swap my fork seals.

I rode recently with some guys, one of them with 12+ years. When he rode my bike, he told the other guy, "He (speaking of me, the newbie) rides pretty well with that clutch like that." He said it's even hard for him to ride with it like that. Even full lock turns, a basic, are difficult. The on/off clutch has me constantly correcting a jumpy bike, trying to throw me off balance.

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Which boots are mostly recommended? Alpinestar Tech T or Gaerne Balance Oiled? They say ease of movement is more important than safety which makes complete sense in Trials I think. A thinner sole on the front like the Tech T is also recommended for feel. Being a newbie, I am not sure.  Another thing, is a helmet high in choice or weight being a bigger factor, do you recommend a special helmet's name? Thanks for your help.

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Which boots are mostly recommended? Alpinestar Tech T or Gaerne Balance Oiled? They say ease of movement is more important than safety which makes complete sense in Trials I think. A thinner sole on the front like the Tech T is also recommended for feel. Being a newbie, I am not sure.  Another thing, is a helmet high in choice or weight being a bigger factor, do you recommend a special helmet's name? Thanks for your help.

There is a thread or two from some months ago here. Just scan down the ObTrials forum. The Gaerne oiled are very popular, due to the comfort. But IMO way overpriced considering they offer virtually no protection. I wanted more. The Alpinestars No Stops offer probably the best protection (read: stiffest) but have glued-on soles. I want to be able to replace mine when needed, and don't want them just falling off. So those were a no. The Forma Boulders aren't nearly as popular, yet seem to be the best balance between comfort and protection. Also have stitched-on soles. I had ordered some from RMATV a while back (best price I could find) but Forma's sizing is waaaay off. They don't match any charts I saw online. So if you were to order anything from Forma, make sure you order buy the Euro sizing, then do your own comparison and order accordingly. Don't trust their American sizing. (I wear a 39/7 but their 7 is considered a 41, so basically they sent me an 8 1/2)

I ended up with Novogars, and am extremely happy with the protection and comfort. Less than $200, but they're hard to find. I got mine on close out from the Trials Shop is NY. (I think that was the shop's name in NY. Awesome store)

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1 hour ago, Survivor said:

Which boots are mostly recommended? Alpinestar Tech T or Gaerne Balance Oiled? They say ease of movement is more important than safety which makes complete sense in Trials I think. A thinner sole on the front like the Tech T is also recommended for feel. Being a newbie, I am not sure.  Another thing, is a helmet high in choice or weight being a bigger factor, do you recommend a special helmet's name? Thanks for your help.

It would be the same as asking which motocross/off-road boot you like best. 

I only get the Gaerne's. Everything else feels too stiff or the sole too thick for me. I tried a pair of Alpinestars a few years back, but gave them away because the sole just felt too thick. Tried some other less expensive boots when money was very tight, wound up still wearing my Gaerne's that where falling apart. They also sell replacement soles for those. 

My oldest boy likes the Alpinestars best. My youngest has Alpinestars, but after trying my Gaerne's wants a set of those. 

So like other style of boots it's all personal preference. 

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Posted (edited)

I wear Gaerne balance boots...I like them, but it's really all I know. It seems like a lot of the locals prefer A-stars, which surprised me as I always thought their mx boots were a few steps below Gaerne in quality.

Edited by Sierra_rider

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Posted (edited)

I use the Gaerne oiled because I already had a pair I bought for dual sport riding.  Imagine my surprise when I found out they were actually trials boots!  So, I've used mine for hard core dirt riding (not recommended - no realistic protection), and dual sporting.  They are very comfortable, you can wear them in a restaurant without getting stared at...LOL...I put the optional toe guards on mine.  Another boot that I am especially fond of is the Forma Terra.  Waterproof, more protection than the Gaerne, very light and requires no break-in.  I use my set for all kinds of riding, including nasty single track.  They would work fine for trials, and are more versatile if other kinds of riding is in your plans.  I've had a pair for about 4 years and the soles are in amazingly good shape, they are still waterproof (as demonstrated by my fall into a creek last week) - as an indicator of how much off-road time I have on them, they are on their third set of toe guards.  Highly recommend - best boot for trail riding I've ever owned and light and flexible enough for trials, IMO.

Edited by kawagumby
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On 04/02/2018 at 9:18 PM, ccullins said:

Not sure why they would say that. Yes the 300's take a hard kick but not hard to start. The smaller bikes kick easy and pretty much always start 1st or 2nd kick. 

Stock springs should be good for you.  

 

On 04/02/2018 at 9:22 PM, M.Roman said:

I’m on the east coast in the Hudson valley area , with plenty of weather changes throughout the year. No doubt the bikes can use one size larger pilot jet in temps below 40°, but hard starting has never been an issue even in older temps with stock jetting. I’ve been on everything from 125s to 300 factory models and that stands for all of them.

Like you said, it was fairly easy to kick and yeah for the left side kick starter as my right knee is so bad. :thumbsup:

Thanks to you and all the others for your support and info as it has been very helpful for me, I just bought my 2018 Beta Evo 200 today in Canada and I will pick it up next Tuesday! ;)

I look forward at the challenge and fun it will bring to an old man like me. :ride:

Do you recommend a throttle tamer for an old beginner like me or not necessary.

Cheers

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Just set it up with adequate throttle cable slack and enjoy.

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This has been my life for that last few years and I've talked about it at length, also documented my progress along the way for all to laugh at...

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Ha,

I'm having fun learning low-speed techniques on my new GasGas Contact.  By fun I mean getting my back and neck racked into spasms after I blow a double-blip on my full-sized bike going over extended logs. .  Nothing like having the bike rear come up and hit me in the fanny hard enough to snap my neck....argh.  I've quit using the trials bike for while so's I can heal up better for the next round of pain that comes with learning, LOL.   It is a challenge, and a whole different experience.  But it's pretty cool when things start to go right.  :ride: 

That's some interesting terrain you ride.

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I have the hardest time transitioning back and forth between a 150lb Sherco or EM Sport electric trails bike to a 130lb enduro bike. One is lower body and core while the other is more upper body. All so darn much fun though.

 

Edit: that's supposed to read "250lb enduro bike". My bad.

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1 hour ago, widebear said:

Just set it up with adequate throttle cable slack and enjoy.

 

1 hour ago, Pittbull said:

This has been my life for that last few years and I've talked about it at length, also documented my progress along the way for all to laugh at...

 

1 hour ago, kawagumby said:

Ha,

I'm having fun learning low-speed techniques on my new GasGas Contact.  By fun I mean getting my back and neck racked into spasms after I blow a double-blip on my full-sized bike going over extended logs. .  Nothing like having the bike rear come up and hit me in the fanny hard enough to snap my neck....argh.  I've quit using the trials bike for while so's I can heal up better for the next round of pain that comes with learning, LOL.   It is a challenge, and a whole different experience.  But it's pretty cool when things start to go right.  :ride: 

That's some interesting terrain you ride.

 

4 minutes ago, Pittbull said:

I have the hardest time transitioning back and forth between a 150lb Sherco or EM Sport electric trails bike to a 130lb enduro bike. One is lower body and core while the other is more upper body. All so darn much fun though.

What do you guy's recommend the most for a first time very old timer on a 2018 Beta Evo 200 :p. Slow practice for getting use to the snap/power and much balance practice and also practice  figure 8  then ride a fair bit on very easy trails to get use to it? :thumbsup: I have already watched  a lots of Ryan Young training to be put in use once I get use to the Evo 200. I did enjoy a lot "Old Ballz" video!:ride:   Hope all goes well for my old damaged knees and body! :cripple:

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Survivor said:

 

Take it easy,relax and enjoy the challenge of the new sport.I'm pretty sure your gonna be all tense and sucking wind within in a few minutes of riding,I know I was and thats half the fun.

 

What do you guy's recommend the most for a first time very old timer on a 2018 Beta Evo 200 :p. Slow practice for getting use to the snap/power and much balance practice and also practice  figure 8  then ride a fair bit on very easy trails to get use to it? :thumbsup: I have already watched  a lots of Ryan Young training to be put in use once I get use to the Evo 200. I did enjoy a lot "Old Ballz" video!:ride:   Hope all goes well for my old damaged knees and body! :cripple:

 

Edited by widebear

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Survivor said:

What do you guy's recommend the most for a first time very old timer on a 2018 Beta Evo 200 :p. Slow practice for getting use to the snap/power and much balance practice and also practice  figure 8  then ride a fair bit on very easy trails to get use to it? :thumbsup: I have already watched  a lots of Ryan Young training to be put in use once I get use to the Evo 200. I did enjoy a lot "Old Ballz" video!:ride:   Hope all goes well for my old damaged knees and body! :cripple:

 

Don't worry about learning trials by what I say...I tend to push things too hard sometimes, and I get what I deserve, LOL.  If you are cross-training into a full-sized bike, one needs to practice a lot on both platforms because timing and body movement is bound to be different...I've yet to get beat up on the trials bike, it's transitioning trials maneuvers to the full-sized bikes that takes a toll out on the trails (evidenced by me sitting here typing this, sore as hell).  This is how I experience it as an old guy, someone else may have a different point-of-view.

But that stuff probably doesn't apply to you, no? What I would recommend to do is be patient with balance, start out on small obstacles that won't pitch the bike around while you develop timing and body movement, and don't get in a hurry like me...:-).  A trials bike is much more forgiving than a full-sized bike for learning and it is easier to dismount with elegance if you screw up...

I use second gear a lot as it smooths out the power delivery - first is too reactive and short-lived for most things.  Just work in a yard at first, let your legs get stronger over time.  Do the boring repetitive balance and wheelie stuff enough so it becomes second nature without having to think about it.  Learn within your own comfort level so you can enjoy the experience, and get some good exercise while doing it.

Edited by kawagumby
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9 hours ago, Pittbull said:

I have the hardest time transitioning back and forth between a 150lb Sherco or EM Sport electric trails bike to a 130lb enduro bike. One is lower body and core while the other is more upper body. All so darn much fun though.

Pittbull; where can I get one of those 130lb enduro bikes?:ride:

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