Did Millenium Tech just screw me??

We all know Kibblewhite sux in DRZ's, why cant Millenium get this concept through their head??

I sent a head in to have them rebuild it, and it needed seats and guides.  They told me they wanted to but nickle bronze in which I said was fine, but they didn't tell me that they were from Kibblewhite!!  oh hell no!  The only reason I found out was because it was taking so long that I called to see what was up and they said the guides were on backorder from....KIBBLEWHITE!  Then I said oh hell no!  How many times do I have to tell you drz owners don't like Kibblewhite!!  They already have the seats installed. Am I screwed?  Are Kibblewhite seats and guides ok to use?  My engine is stock and I am running all new oem valve train components.  Dang, my first post sux!!  This sux!! Down with Kibblewhite!

Most of the old reports of failure are a decade old now. Allegedly Kibblewhite admitted that they had a bad batch due to heat treatment issues. Another theory I've read on the quad-tards site was early failure due to valve float(weak KW springs). We need some recent feedback though, thanks for volunteering and welcome aboard!

 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, drzmadness said:
We all know Kibblewhite sux in DRZ's, why cant Millenium get this concept through their head??
I sent a head in to have them rebuild it, and it needed seats and guides.  They told me they wanted to but nickle bronze in which I said was fine, but they didn't tell me that they were from Kibblewhite!!  oh hell no!  The only reason I found out was because it was taking so long that I called to see what was up and they said the guides were on backorder from....KIBBLEWHITE!  Then I said oh hell no!  How many times do I have to tell you drz owners don't like Kibblewhite!!  They already have the seats installed. Am I screwed?  Are Kibblewhite seats and guides ok to use?  My engine is stock and I am running all new oem valve train components.  Dang, my first post sux!!  This sux!! Down with Kibblewhite!


KW has only had limited issues with valves in the DRZ, and it was years ago.... Bad manufacturing, bad install, mismatch of materials valve/ seat? Who knows
I don’t remember an issue with seats, springs or valve stem guides

And for the many hundreds that don’t read a few Internet forums and pass on the same few reports of KW valves that failed millennium technology and other companies have been installing KW parts with no issues.  id guess if it was still an issue, it would be currently posted, not just recounting what someone heard.

I would talk with millennium let them know your concerns and ask them what they want to do I would work with them.  I’m honestly not convinced that KW valves are the devil they are made out to be
 

Man all this talk about Kibble White being bad quality is news to me.  When I heard that all Kibble White parts were used to rebuild my head I was glad because I had only heard good things about them...

I was checking my valve clearance the other day (all in spec by the way)...and Now I have a low mile big bore sitting in the garage torn apart because of a broken Kibble White inner valve spring!...and I reordered the same spring kit as a replacement because I’m hoping (with blind faith) that it was just a fluke or a bad batch.  I know everything was installed correctly by an expert mechanic...

If you had particular preferences about which parts to use they should have been stated up front with Millenium, not after the fact...

70BF0D32-9973-4990-976E-47A84EC9C97A.jpeg

If you search back in this forum about mid 2000 years you will find a lot of KW stories about failed valves... Only a few are first hand , most not..and very few had any real info on how they were installed... What seats were installed? how were they cut? were the valves cut? Were they lapped? What was the cam lift, installed spring height, spring pressure at that lift? Were the seats cut after new guides installed? 

This one KW spring failure that just popped up, inner spring fracture ....That was not a common mode of failure as I remember it..  So WHY did the spring fail? Manufacturing issue? Over rev for coil design? Spring bind? Spring damaged upon install? I have no idea..

Will I use KW in my builds today?  Maybe... if the shop doing the work wants to stand behind there use, why not... I choose parts based on the build.... not what I read on the Internet 15 years ago.

I guess I’ll be a guinea pig because I just installed them in my rebuild a few weeks ago.

2 hours ago, Jboat said:

Man all this talk about Kibble White being bad quality is news to me.  When I heard that all Kibble White parts were used to rebuild my head I was glad because I had only heard good things about them...

I was checking my valve clearance the other day (all in spec by the way)...and Now I have a low mile big bore sitting in the garage torn apart because of a broken Kibble White inner valve spring!...and I reordered the same spring kit as a replacement because I’m hoping (with blind faith) that it was just a fluke or a bad batch.  I know everything was installed correctly by an expert mechanic...

If you had particular preferences about which parts to use they should have been stated up front with Millenium, not after the fact...

70BF0D32-9973-4990-976E-47A84EC9C97A.jpeg

Millenium tried to sell me a Kibblewhite valve train when I set things up with them and I was very clear that I didn't like Kibblewhite!  I even went as far as to tell them why.  Almost everyone that I know who has a drz stays away from them.  Sorry to tell you the bad news now.  

Edited by drzmadness
6 hours ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

Most of the old reports of failure are a decade old now. Allegedly Kibblewhite admitted that they had a bad batch due to heat treatment issues. Another theory I've read on the quad-tards site was early failure due to valve float(weak KW springs). We need some recent feedback though, thanks for volunteering and welcome aboard!

 

 

 

 

I'm aware of the talk both ways about Kibblewhite and I stay away.  What I don't know about is their guides and seats.  Thanks!  I don't want to be their tester though!!

Edited by drzmadness
3 hours ago, Erik Marquez said:


KW has only had limited issues with valves in the DRZ
I don’t remember an issue with seats, guides or valve stem guides

And for the many hundreds that don’t read a few internet forums and pass on the same few reports of KW valves that failed millennium technology and other companies have been installing KW parts with no issues.

I talk with millennium let them know your concerns and ask them what they want to do I would work with him I’m honestly not convinced that KE valves are the devil they’ve made out to be
 

I hope you are right.  

if anyone knows someone on this forum who can chime in for sure about whether or not they have had problems with their seats and guides I would love to hear from them.  I can still prevent them from finishing my head with Kibblewhite.  I don't care if it costs another $200 to have those seats pulled, i'm already in $1000

48 minutes ago, drzmadness said:

Millenium tried to sell me a Kibblewhite valve train when I set things up with them and I was very clear that I didn't like Kibblewhite!  I even went as far as to tell them why.

Obviously that was not made clear in the first post.  In that case you have every right to be upset.  Hopefully they will honor your request and make it right.  Good luck.  

I’m wondering what’s so bad about Kibble White?  Is it inferior materials, bad design, poor QC?...

14 hours ago, drzmadness said:

We all know Kibblewhite sux in DRZ's, why cant Millenium get this concept through their head??

I sent a head in to have them rebuild it, and it needed seats and guides.  They told me they wanted to but nickle bronze in which I said was fine, but they didn't tell me that they were from Kibblewhite!!  oh hell no!  The only reason I found out was because it was taking so long that I called to see what was up and they said the guides were on backorder from....KIBBLEWHITE!  Then I said oh hell no!  How many times do I have to tell you drz owners don't like Kibblewhite!!  They already have the seats installed. Am I screwed?  Are Kibblewhite seats and guides ok to use?  My engine is stock and I am running all new oem valve train components.  Dang, my first post sux!!  This sux!! Down with Kibblewhite!

 

Hi! 

Sorry for any confusion. Although Kibblewhite had a few issues with valves a couple of decades ago, they are by far the best aftermarket valve train parts supplier in the industry. As fast as seats and guides go.....in 99% of the cases, Kibblewhite is the ONLY supplier for powersports vehicles. The OEM's rarely sell seats as an item. 

We have installed hundreds of thousands of Kibblewhite seats and guides with no issue. A raw seat is simply a metal slug. How the seat and guide is installed is infinitely more important than who made it. I could list countless examples of ultra high end, professional racers that use Kibblewhite seats and guides. 

Please shoot me a note with your contact info and I would be happy to explain more and/or come to some sort of solution. 

chip@mt-llc.com 

4 hours ago, Chip@MillenniumTech said:

 

Hi! 

Sorry for any confusion. Although Kibblewhite had a few issues with valves a couple of decades ago, they are by far the best aftermarket valve train parts supplier in the industry. As fast as seats and guides go.....in 99% of the cases, Kibblewhite is the ONLY supplier for powersports vehicles. The OEM's rarely sell seats as an item. 

We have installed hundreds of thousands of Kibblewhite seats and guides with no issue. A raw seat is simply a metal slug. How the seat and guide is installed is infinitely more important than who made it. I could list countless examples of ultra high end, professional racers that use Kibblewhite seats and guides. 

Please shoot me a note with your contact info and I would be happy to explain more and/or come to some sort of solution. 

chip@mt-llc.com 

I'll pm you, but I just want to clarify that as I said before I know both sides of the conversation regarding Kibblewhites in drzs and as Erik does, I stay away like most drz owners do.  I am also aware that Kibblewhite has a ton of racers running them, but almost no one that I know with a drz will touch them.  Most people that I know would disagree with you that they are the best aftermarket suppliers for a drz.  We mostly agree on RHC or Ferrea valves.  I don't want to argue the point with you, but the salesman at Millenium told me the same thing about their valves that you just did and I can assure you it got NOWHERE with me.  I don't want KW in my bike's head.  It appears to me that there are other suppliers such as APE, but I could be wrong I haven't had time to look into it yet.  Thanks

15 minutes ago, drzmadness said:

I'll pm you, but I just want to clarify that as I said before I know both sides of the conversation regarding Kibblewhites in drzs and as Erik does, I stay away like most drz owners do

Just to be clear... Erik is not saying DONT USE KW...
Im saying there are options (and researching now if some of my options are actually KW in someone else product bag)
If a company like MT LLC is willing to stand behind using KW products plus there are no common evidence of failures in current production valves in this motor design or another Id Id be foolish to stand on a stump and suggest they are junk.. And Im not saying that, nor have I in a lot of years.
 

If I had Ferrea valves and KW valves to choose from, I would choose Ferrea because they have a track record of working.  
Just like I prefer JE pistons over another common brand,,,not because the other is "junk" but because I did have an issue with the other and never had an issue with JE.

If there is an issue of miscommunication in customers wants vs company fulfillment, that is a separate issue to be handled between the two.  
 

1 hour ago, Erik Marquez said:

Just to be clear... Erik is not saying DONT USE KW...
Im saying there are options (and researching now if some of my options are actually KW in someone else product bag)
If a company like MT LLC is willing to stand behind using KW products plus there are no common evidence of failures in current production valves in this motor design or another Id Id be foolish to stand on a stump and suggest they are junk.. And Im not saying that, nor have I in a lot of years.
 

If I had Ferrea valves and KW valves to choose from, I would choose Ferrea because they have a track record of working.  
Just like I prefer JE pistons over another common brand,,,not because the other is "junk" but because I did have an issue with the other and never had an issue with JE.

If there is an issue of miscommunication in customers wants vs company fulfillment, that is a separate issue to be handled between the two.  
 

i understand this and this is exactly what I am saying. Why take the chance when there are other proven options available. If you find out that the other items you are buying are actually resist. KW would you please pass that info on? Do you know if there are other companies providing quality seats and guides for stock drz400s? Thanks Erik

This is frickin HILARIOUS.  Y'all have a major panty wad going over a perceived issue with KW products.  Over in the KTM world, KW stuff is THE SHIT.  Has been for decades.  Intake valves receding? replace with KW's and never touch them again.  

In my experience, the only thing better than KW's are Del West and OEM Yamaha valves.

*EDIT* and 2 strokes!

Edited by bikedude987

There is/was truth to the DRZ /LTZ KW issue. Google Z400 Kibblewhite valves and you will find plenty of topics about the subject on another forum. The Z400 and DRZ use the same basic engine. As I said before, those post are from years ago.

 

 

When I sent my first head to Fasthead , I asked them about KW in the DRZ and they said the same as Millennium , only was a few issues years ago but they use them as a first choice unless the customer wants something else . A few experienced companies willing to risk their business off them says enough for me personally .

 

 

.

4 hours ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

There is/was truth to the DRZ /LTZ KW issue. Google Z400 Kibblewhite valves and you will find plenty of topics about the subject on another forum. The Z400 and DRZ use the same basic engine. As I said before, those post are from years ago.

 

 

people are still talking about drzs eating kw valves today. At least having short life spans. On the other hand a few drz owners like them.

Edited by drzmadness
1 hour ago, jjktmrider said:

When I sent my first head to Fasthead , I asked them about KW in the DRZ and they said the same as Millennium , only was a few issues years ago but they use them as a first choice unless the customer wants something else . A few experienced companies willing to risk their business off them says enough for me

I'm not so sure they do that many drz heads. Don't get me wrong, I went to millenium because they are the best and they have a better machine than even fastheads does. Kw in other bikes is apparently the way to go, in drzs....no

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