Has anyone installed an ECU from a FX450 on a FE501/450?

[rfrmcjape]

Update : There is now 47 kilometres on my 17 KTM 500 and I have just breached the one hour mark . So I am changing the oil today . It seems that the bike is running hot , so I am going to do a photo eye temperature test on the bike after going for a 10 minute ride just before the oil change . I have a feeling that the bike is actually still running lean in the top end while going 80 mph average on the highway . I pulled the spark plug and it seems that it is running good , slight tan color . The thing is ...  It is only plus 3 degrees Celsius here and I have air cooled bikes that are struggling to get warm . I am tempted to pull the thermostat .  Gotta get this done so I will post some pics when done . 

 

 

[Spud786]

If you ride the bike on the road, you want that thermostat, otherwise the bike can fall below 160' degrees even in hot weather, Run cold and the fuel injection will enrichen.

A thermostat is a blessing, for quick warm up and Holding minimum temperatures.   Are you getting any lean surging at a constant throttle were the bike , falls off torque and then comes back?

 

Also an example is where your riding down a straight flat road with constant throttle, and sometimes the torque falls off, and cause a down shift and a moment later, the bike is looking for up shift.  This all relating to  lean surge conditions, in that particular throttle area.

  

Edited February 25, 2018 by Spud786

[rfrmcjape]

Cool , thanks for the input . Always learning new things is a blessing . The answers to your inquiries are , no . I have not noticed anything like you have described . The bike always pulls way hard and I literally have to short shift through 4th gear to keep the front end from climbing to the sky . 

Perhaps the temperature issues are just new owner hysteria . Did the same quick ride today and changed the oil . Took temperature readings at the bottom end ; the top end and at the radiators with the engine idling after the ride . Outside temperature was -3 Celsius .  Everything seems normal . Here are the pictures . Will try and put some video footage on youtube when I get some extra time . Uploads take forever . 

[Spud786]

I tell you a story.  

It takes a lot of hours to get modern unleaded fuels to color on a spark plug, unless the bike is horribly rich.

I run a light leaded fuel diet, which normally will instantly color a plug to some degree(or atleast a hint of tint).  I could not get my 2015 stock or( tps adjusted )to color at all, even with 50/50 mix of VP race lead. Totally shocking, still running a pure white plug  .   But with unleaded fuels you're not going to get any coloring at all for thousands of miles, unless the bike is over rich.  I actually had to enrich fuel mapping, to get normal colorization with my leaded mix. I mean when you cant get a 4 stroke to color with Lead, that's super lean.  After remapping, I get a nice very light tan, and normally 300 hours per plug (Im on my 3rd plug)

But your running an SXF map, and tha plug doesn't look like its seeing a fuel excess.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Spud786

[crazybrother]

6 hours ago, rfrmcjape said:

Update : There is now 47 kilometres on my 17 KTM 500 and I have just breached the one hour mark . So I am changing the oil today . It seems that the bike is running hot , so I am going to do a photo eye temperature test on the bike after going for a 10 minute ride just before the oil change . I have a feeling that the bike is actually still running lean in the top end while going 80 mph average on the highway . I pulled the spark plug and it seems that it is running good , slight tan color . The thing is ...  It is only plus 3 degrees Celsius here and I have air cooled bikes that are struggling to get warm . I am tempted to pull the thermostat .  Gotta get this done so I will post some pics when done . 

 

 

Can you check your TPS and let us know what it's at?

Thanks.

[crazybrother]

29 minutes ago, Spud786 said:

I tell you a story.  

It takes a lot of hours to get modern unleaded fuels to color on a spark plug, unless the bike is horribly rich.

I run a light leaded fuel diet, which normally will instantly color a plug to some degree(or atleast a hint of tint).  I could not get my 2015 stock or( tps adjusted )to color at all, even with 50/50 mix of VP race lead. Totally shocking, still running a pure white plug  .   But with unleaded fuels you're not going to get any coloring at all for thousands of miles, unless the bike is over rich.  I actually had to enrich fuel mapping, to get normal colorization with my leaded mix. I mean when you cant get a 4 stroke to color with Lead, that's super lean.  After remapping, I get a nice very light tan, and normally 300 hours per plug (Im on my 3rd plug)

But your running an SXF map, and tha plug doesn't look like its seeing a fuel excess.

So it looks like my Theory may work... I assumed that the FX/SXF Mapping may be perfect for the 500/501 because it would be richer and the timing would be advanced enough to handle the extra 50cc of engine size... This is all good news...?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

sx

[Spud786]

5 minutes ago, crazybrother said:

So it looks like my Theory may work... I assumed that the FX/SXF Mapping may be perfect for the 500/501 because it would be richer and the timing would be advanced enough to handle the extra 50cc of engine size... This is all good news...?

Cant say for sure, that plug only has an 1 hour on it, but definitely worth watching.

 

 

 

 

[rfrmcjape]

Hi , again . 

Thanks for the feedback . I am still trying to get my head wrapped around what exactly I am dealing with and this back and forth has been a great help . 

I also have a riding buddy who has a 17 450 six days and just picked up a 17 250 exc for his son . So I am headed over to his in the near future to dial in his rides . To check the TPS as per crazybro's request I am a full 120 km away from the nearest dealer and have not had great success letting others touch my rides . Is there a way I can do this without a TPS tuner ? I have ordered and should receive a TPS tuner between the 7th and the 16th of March as I would like to see how it changes things . According to some ,  this is all that is required to attain enough fuel for the 250 and 350 exc . 

Any ideas on how to get the sxf ecu to run the fan ? It must just be turned off in the settings .. Just a thought . My theory is ....  There isn't an option to provide this as a KTM kit because of two reasons . A : the whole harness from the exc would need to be utilized running the cost much higher than just a fan kit that turns on / off via a thermal switch of some variety . B : providing this option gives up the ghost . The ECU that is on the 17/18 exc is the same part number and the 18 sxf . The rest is just software smoke and mirrors . 

Am I wrong ? 

 

 

[Spud786]

Blais racing would be able to give you exact info, but you need the whole EXC firm ware package for auto fan operation, as I doubt there is a on off toggle for fan operation under the sxf firmware.

The question would be can they reinstall just the sxf mapping afterwards , or would better just to get the modified EU mapping, and then fan will work in addition.  I think they are charging around $89 for that. Personally , I couldnt deal with manual fan operation (too much tracking work), I prefer automatic.

 

Yeah the ECU's are the same part number, but they come blank, so its that firmware that gets installed, that tells the ecu what it is.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Spud786

[rfrmcjape]

Rather just spend the same amount of money on a kit controlled by a thermal switch. 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/162004124682

 

 

[Spud786]

1 hour ago, rfrmcjape said:

Rather just spend the same amount of money on a kit controlled by a thermal switch. 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/162004124682

 

 

You already have a fan right, that looked like some computer fan set up.  But You might atleast consult with Blias, if they'll talk to you.

Tell them what you've done, as Im pretty sure they've already done it, just see what they say.

Don't email them, call them and Hunt them down.

 

I tried an email inquiry, zero personal words, just a question mark with links to vortex and eu advanced mapping.  I was really hoping for some WORDS.

 

Then I tried to call, but it was on Friday afternoon and only got a voicemail.

 

Okay, maybe they are total Boneheads, but they've done it all on the ECU's, so there's hidden information there, that atleast might benefit you and a few others.

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Spud786

[rfrmcjape]

Sounds good . I will give that a shot . 

 

[crazybrother]

Here's the latest. I have a connection that is willing to give me an ECU to test out and ride with it... I will report back with the results. And we can make map adjustments with this ECU... Also, I know the cost for these ECU's and they are not $400. So if this works out then the cost would be about half of that of the Vortex.?

[rfrmcjape]

?

[rfrmcjape]

Update : 

Today the Weather finally let up and shot all the way up to 6 degrees Celsius . Last night I got out to the shop and set my TPS with the TPS Tuner that finally came . I set the TPS to maximum suggested .78 .  With the crack of the throttle from idle to about half to three quarters I can get a puff of black smoke . That made me feel much better about testing the bike . I headed out with the intention of taking some temperature readings after my return . I put on 70 km of riding in .6 of an hour . So in total I have 120 km and 2 hours of operation on the bike . I did some highway riding for about 10 km running between 60 mph and 100 mph . Then did some road riding then off on back country gravel roads , riding much more aggressively as the roads have thawed . Upon return I left the bike idling and took my temperature readings . I got 53 degrees Celsius at the bottom end , 111 degrees Celsius at the cylinder and 40 degrees at the radiator core . The bike ran great and never snapped crackled or popped once . Felt great to get her dirty ! 

Started building an 18 inch front wheel for her to make an all around street tracker / supermoto set up . Also did a short vid on wheel weights that I made from 1/4 thick aluminum , of which I will have to make a link for on youtube if anyone is interested . 

 

 

[rfrmcjape]

Here is the link to the wheel weight vid . 

 

[crazybrother]

On 2/25/2018 at 10:13 PM, rfrmcjape said:

Hi , again . 

Thanks for the feedback . I am still trying to get my head wrapped around what exactly I am dealing with and this back and forth has been a great help . 

I also have a riding buddy who has a 17 450 six days and just picked up a 17 250 exc for his son . So I am headed over to his in the near future to dial in his rides . To check the TPS as per crazybro's request I am a full 120 km away from the nearest dealer and have not had great success letting others touch my rides . Is there a way I can do this without a TPS tuner ? I have ordered and should receive a TPS tuner between the 7th and the 16th of March as I would like to see how it changes things . According to some ,  this is all that is required to attain enough fuel for the 250 and 350 exc . 

Any ideas on how to get the sxf ecu to run the fan ? It must just be turned off in the settings .. Just a thought . My theory is ....  There isn't an option to provide this as a KTM kit because of two reasons . A : the whole harness from the exc would need to be utilized running the cost much higher than just a fan kit that turns on / off via a thermal switch of some variety . B : providing this option gives up the ghost . The ECU that is on the 17/18 exc is the same part number and the 18 sxf . The rest is just software smoke and mirrors . 

Am I wrong ? 

 

 

Did you leave the Key Switch on or did you buy the Sicass bypass plug?

[motobri]

FYI, Spoke to Tokyo Mods today and they now have an updated map for those who have the Vortex from earlier. Totally updated map better than a stock FX/FC and now fan will work.

[rfrmcjape]

Oops , I just realized that I missed this question about the ignition . I left the ignition alone . Everything works as it did before I changed the ecu . Again , the only thing not working is the cooling fan . I still haven't needed it thankfully . Went for another rip on Saturday and had plenty of fun . The bike worked amazing . 185 km on the odometer and 2.6 hours . 

 

[rfrmcjape]

Hello , anyone that is still interested in the ecu swap . Things have worked great so far and today I took another step in testing . I took my bike into Calgary on my commute . The distance one way is 120 kilometres . The Highway I commute on , hwy 2 ,  is posted at 110 km/h ( 68mph ) . The spirit of the law's limit over is 80 mph . Alberta is on the east side of the Rocky Mountain range . We get plenty of wind and this split highway is as wide as any built in the world . A good test to put the bike on a good load . The morning was cooler ( 9 degrees Celsius ) and was a good push on my part . Had to get to work , didn't want to be late . My bad , I haven't attached a watch to my bars to monitor the time as I ride . The return ride , after filling the tank as my fuel light came on shortly after leaving , was at 21 degrees Celsius . Stopping at lights idling was worrying me as I have heard of other exc owners stating that this is when the coolant starts to bypass the radiator cap . Kept a close eye and not a drip entered the overflow tube . After taking a few detours , back country gravel roads that are my favourite . The test was a success . Took a couple short tours around braking and accelerating . Let the bike idle for a few minutes and took temperature readings again at the bottom end clutch side the radiator core in a few places and the top end . 128 degrees Celsius at the top end . 71 degrees at the bottom end . 50 degrees maximum at the radiator core top tank . 

Fuel consumption is up there . I burned 7 litres of fuel over 120 km distance . I could dial this back a little , but it is my opinion this is helping the cooling . Yes , fuel is expensive but I will take that trade off as engine rebuilds are much worse . Besides I have had other Dual Purpose bikes . If there isn't fuel consumption the ride is boring . My perspective is simple . I just sold a supermoto Dr 200 Suzuki that I did a number to and the same commute resulted in the burning of 5 litres of fuel .