2018 300RR or XC-W I'm torn

[gr4vitas]

So I have a 2016 300RR and generally I love the bike. My biggest complaint though is the forks and somewhat the suspension in general. Namely the forks though and the stock valving being pretty much crap for really rocky brutal terrain (new England) especially in a state called the "granite state". Anyway gold valves would certainly go a long way and I'm sure make the forks much much better but I kind of just don't want to deal with it. I've ridden 2016 and 17 xcws and TE's and the suspension was pretty impressive certainly better stock for stock than the beta. 

 

I guess what I'm wondering is if the 18 RR's are much better in the valving department? I love my oil injection and to be frank I love the Beta look and brand. I'm a fan boy for sure, but I'm logical before that lol. Im also really liking the idea of PDS for the type of riding I do. I've already smashed my linkage a fair amount of times and even had it hang up on a boulder ledge hard on me, dead stopped and I had to bail off backwards for a good 4 foot drop. Not fun. 

Also it seems the beta clutch as far as I can tell has a lot shorter engagement area, I've done a bunch of testing and measuring and couldn't find a problem with my clutch but suffice to say it's completely disengaged at 50% in and completely engaged at about 75% out. That's a whole other can of worms though that I've made a thread on. The TE300 I rode recently made me realize my clutch issue and I was blown away by how much more control I had with the TE300 clutch and how much engagement room I had to play with. 

[Danceswithtrees]

Get the forks valved, lots of options and they can work quite well once setup right.  Steve Beane from PlusOnePerformance did mine and they work very well in the rocky terrain we have and the cost was minimal.  He's in lower Michigan and goes by motoxgiant on TT.

Throw a Obie Link guard on the linkage and it will glide right over the rocks. I used one for two years and for $45 it does the job well.  This year I put an AXP Extreme skid plate on and it has an integrated linkage guard.  This thing is super thick, easy on and off and probably the best protection in a skid plate I've ever seen. 

I'm happy with my clutch but I do have a Rekluse.

[NW_drZ]

I may get killed by the Beta die hards for this but if it were me id consider the XCW.  I road a 17' 300 xcw with Kreft worked suspension and was extremely impressed with it for the nasty PNW single track riding.  Motor was smooth and linear.  Im also in the minority with saying the 18' Beta "upgrades" don't really impress me.  Definitely not enough to get me to sell my 17' and snag an 18'.  On a side note, Im still surprised you weren't able to adjust your engagement / disengagement point by adjusting the preload rod on your lever.  For me, thats how exactly I do it.  If I find the engagement point a little late in the release I just back off the preload rod a touch to bring it in.  Granted I have a MW lever.  But I have been able to use those two adjustments on mine to get it further in or further out.  Bummer that didn't work for you.

Im also in the same boat as you with the forks.  With the correct springs I find them OK.  But I'm in the process of revalving them as I think that will be enough to make me happy.  However, I'm dealing with a whole different issue with excessive wear on the inside of the outer tubes.  Ive been going back and forth with Beta USA for months now on whether they are going to replace them.  What a pain.  This has obviously delayed me getting them revalved. 

[Piney Woods]

Is the inner wear on the fork tubes universal and some are just not checking/inspecting close enough or is it just a small pct of the forks?

Edited February 7, 2018 by YHGEORGE

[weantright]

27 minutes ago, NW_drZ said:

I may get killed by the Beta die hards for this but if it were me id consider the XCW.  I road a 17' 300 xcw with Kreft worked suspension and was extremely impressed with it for the nasty PNW single track riding.  Motor was smooth and linear.  Im also in the minority with saying the 18' Beta "upgrades" don't really impress me.  Definitely not enough to get me to sell my 17' and snag an 18'.  On a side note, Im still surprised you weren't able to adjust your engagement / disengagement point by adjusting the preload rod on your lever.  For me, thats how exactly I do it.  If I find the engagement point a little late in the release I just back off the preload rod a touch to bring it in.  Granted I have a MW lever.  But I have been able to use those two adjustments on mine to get it further in or further out.  Bummer that didn't work for you.

Im also in the same boat as you with the forks.  With the correct springs I find them OK.  But I'm in the process of revalving them as I think that will be enough to make me happy.  However, I'm dealing with a whole different issue with excessive wear on the inside of the outer tubes.  Ive been going back and forth with Beta USA for months now on whether they are going to replace them.  What a pain.  This has obviously delayed me getting them revalved. 

This isn't a good comparo to what Gr4vitas is asking since the xcw had worked over suspension. In stock form both bikes would need a shim shuffle to really appreciate what the bike can do. Personally Beta's 2t's are class leading in todays market. I suggest  Gr4vitas revalve his suspension, add a linkage guard and be done. The grass in this case isn't greener on the other side,,,, different shade same brightness.

[NW_drZ]

7 minutes ago, weantright said:

This isn't a good comparo to what Gr4vitas is asking since the xcw had worked over suspension. In stock form both bikes would need a shim shuffle to really appreciate what the bike can do. Personally Beta's 2t's are class leading in todays market. I suggest  Gr4vitas revalve his suspension, add a linkage guard and be done. The grass in this case isn't greener on the other side,,,, different shade same brightness.

Fair enough on that.  Technically not a fair suspension comparison.  I think what I was trying to get across is that the XCW is a good bike and is not a bad thing to consider if he goes down the route of a new purchase.  I agree though that if it were my decision I would keep the 16', revalve it and add the odie guard.  Exactly what I did and plan to do (with the revalve). 

[NW_drZ]

20 minutes ago, YHGEORGE said:

Is the inner wear on the fork tubes universal and some are just not checking/inspecting close enough or is it just a small pct of the forks?

Hard to say George.  From the research I have done I have come across a good amount of people experiencing the same problem.  I wouldn't be surprised if a lot just don't notice it and or check.  The only reason I really did was because of how bad my fork oil looked when I changed it.  I actually didn't see anything on the internet that got me to check.  It wasn't until after I did a search (because of how hammered mine was) that I saw others reporting the exact same issue. 

[hawaiidirtrider]

3 hours ago, gr4vitas said:

So I have a 2016 300RR and generally I love the bike. My biggest complaint though is the forks and somewhat the suspension in general. Namely the forks though and the stock valving being pretty much crap for really rocky brutal terrain (new England) especially in a state called the "granite state". Anyway gold valves would certainly go a long way and I'm sure make the forks much much better but I kind of just don't want to deal with it. I've ridden 2016 and 17 xcws and TE's and the suspension was pretty impressive certainly better stock for stock than the beta. 

 

I guess what I'm wondering is if the 18 RR's are much better in the valving department? I love my oil injection and to be frank I love the Beta look and brand. I'm a fan boy for sure, but I'm logical before that lol. Im also really liking the idea of PDS for the type of riding I do. I've already smashed my linkage a fair amount of times and even had it hang up on a boulder ledge hard on me, dead stopped and I had to bail off backwards for a good 4 foot drop. Not fun. 

Also it seems the beta clutch as far as I can tell has a lot shorter engagement area, I've done a bunch of testing and measuring and couldn't find a problem with my clutch but suffice to say it's completely disengaged at 50% in and completely engaged at about 75% out. That's a whole other can of worms though that I've made a thread on. The TE300 I rode recently made me realize my clutch issue and I was blown away by how much more control I had with the TE300 clutch and how much engagement room I had to play with. 

Well there are improvements for the 18 Beta but yea for you having a 16? Is the newer bike worth it? Thats just depends on you. Im not upgrading from my 15 300 rr. There is a new clutch and the frame is slightly improved along with cylinder? Idk. Having to buy a kicker is shitty. Why aren’t you sending your suspension out to be done?  Or just getting ohlins or kybs or Sachs closed or dal soggio spheres or whatever? That’s simpler and for sure cheaper than getting a new bike and starting over. My plan from the start always was to buy the 300 rr and just keep adding mods and dialing in the bike till it fit me to work for me. Eventually the bike gets maxxed out having the best goodies if adding a little at a time. For me I have a couple of friends that have 17 ktm 250 and 300 ktms one other had a husky 17 300 . He sold it after 6 months. The ktm guys have spent big bucks setting up their bikes. One went from a 250 to a 300 top end and he’s been fiddling for a long time before being happy. The other almost immediately went to a lectron carb.. then later a smart carb. Then on ohlins rear shock? ..and he’s still fiddling? I guess he likes his bike but shit these guys have spent big bucks. I don’t see these guys all the time except sometimes in the trails and I’m like ” Wow!! More goodies for your bike?”. I don’t know. Hey if you want a brand new Ktm 300 go for it. Just go in with your eyes wide open. Hang in the ktm and husky threads and ride some of the bikes you are talking about if you can. Grass isn’t always greener. The counterbalancer is a tiny bit smoother but I don’t care about it. Suspension is something to be setup with any bike you buy. If buying a brand new 300 rr Id still buy a race edition and have Beta do the suspension on the cc sachs to get it closer to what I want before I even ride the bike. Id get the kicker installed too. All the othe protection stuff Id put on myself. Topar racing disc guards etc.. Ptech combo pipe skid plate.. etc As far as suspension goes some guys usually just keep upgrading and tuning regularly  depending on what they ride . 

Really Beta has so many options for upgrading suspension or whatever. Just get it done for your weight and riding style and if it’s still not where you want it tune more till it’s how you like it. 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2018 by hawaiidirtrider

[kyleanegus]

I bought a new ‘17 300 XC-W almost one year ago and have 90 hours on it. I have ridden a 15 and 17 300RR. About 1 hour a piece(so, not enough time to give a side by side comparison) I liked the feel of both the Betas and had no complaints as far as suspension were concerned and thought the ‘17 RR handled as well as my XC-W. If your only complaint is the suspension, stick with what you’ve got and get it revalved.

The XC-W eats up the trail chop with ease. Unsteady handling in wide open stuff, which I am in more then I’d like to link the nasty stuff together. I’m getting a revalve front and rear soon, but I might be a little too picky. The biggest differences between the two bikes you mention is the counterbalanced motor. It is not hype, if you want a new vibration free motor, sell and get the XC-W.

[afm774]

Steve (Plus One Performance) recently did the forks on my 16' 300RR RE and they are night and day. I had the same problem as you, mostly really stiff and harsh over rocks on riverbeds. Give him a shot. His prices are very reasonable and has a quick turnaround as well. Cheaper than getting a new bike...

[ktm300]

If you ride faster whooped out trail, the PDS bikes start swapping side to side, the faster you go the worse it gets, if you just ride technical extreme stuff there great. 

When I ride those counter balanced bike and go back to the Beta I really never notice vibration in either, but I'm on a 250.  

[GP]

KTMs always had a lot more vibration and this affected the TPI during development, hence the CB.  FWIW, if you have ever had a Beta motor apart, it is CB ready.  Bearing bores and clearance for the shaft and weights clearly exist.  All it needs is a little secondary machining and parts.

[Primal Enduro]

I've had a 300rr since 2014 and sometimes I notice the vibration after a long fast section, or road.  other than that I never thought about it.  I just picked up a 2017 TX300 last night so once I put some time on it I'll be able to tell you if it is a real difference or perceived difference.  sitting still you can notice it for sure, so it's got to make some difference after a long day...how much?  we shall see.

[GP]

My 300RR was especially smooth, some others I've been on not as much but not as bad as pre '17 KTMs.  I attribute that to excellent crank balance.  As a 250 now its even smoother.  There is more to perceived vibes than the motor, the frame has a lot to do with it too.  For example my buddy's GG was a horrible shaker,  I could not stand to be on it for more than a few miles.  Last winter rebuilt the motor top to bottom.  Rebuilt and balanced crank, new Rekluse basket and dampers, ALL new SKF and KOYO bearings, no shortcuts.  All new pipe mounts as well.  Result was its only moderately better.  There is something about the frame that resonates, bad weld, maybe a hidden crack, or just the design to a point.

He's a carpenter with carpal tunnel syndrome.  Rode numb (and pretty fast considering) for years now.  Just got that fixed, so now that he can feel his hands he might hate the bike!

[bryanaverill]

I'll chime in and the Beta fan club may hate on it.

My buddy has a 2016 250 xcw and I have a 2016 250rr (non-race).  After we have both tuned our bikes according to our preferences, both bikes are amazingly similar.  The big difference is that I had to have the front and rear suspension re-valved and my buddy didn't.  We both ride tight trails at moderate speed. Not even close to racing.  In the end, I feel the biggest benefit of the Beta is ergonomics, which favor smaller people, and the uniqueness factor.  I'm happy with my RR now.  It took a normal amount of tuning to match my preferences.

I wouldn't give up on your 2016 RR.  There is a lot that can be done to improve your suspension.  Some expensive and some cheaper, but all worthwhile to consider.

[hawaiidirtrider]

2 hours ago, bryanaverill said:

I'll chime in and the Beta fan club may hate on it.

My buddy has a 2016 250 xcw and I have a 2016 250rr (non-race).  After we have both tuned our bikes according to our preferences, both bikes are amazingly similar.  The big difference is that I had to have the front and rear suspension re-valved and my buddy didn't.  We both ride tight trails at moderate speed. Not even close to racing.  In the end, I feel the biggest benefit of the Beta is ergonomics, which favor smaller people, and the uniqueness factor.  I'm happy with my RR now.  It took a normal amount of tuning to match my preferences.

I wouldn't give up on your 2016 RR.  There is a lot that can be done to improve your suspension.  Some expensive and some cheaper, but all worthwhile to consider.

That sounds about right. All in all there are all great bikes available in the 250/300 2 stroke enduro class from all brands. All are great and just have certain characteristics that are different and preferred for each rider. There are just certain things that are not easy to change or can’t be changed. .. Like a bike is higher or doesnt have kick start blah blah blah.. 

In this case I think just a suspension sprung and a revalve and a link guard is the simplest solution. Save money. 

Want a Beta to look brand new? Buy plastics and a graphic kit and no one will know the difference if it’s an 18 or 16 Beta 300 rr. .. and your bike will work great and more dialed in for you.

I could see more if the newest ktm or beta had a significant jump in being a better bike but It’s not that big.. especially for bang for your buck. If you have money to burn then go for it though. Life is short.

Edited February 9, 2018 by hawaiidirtrider

[ccullins]

I think what you guys are missing is some people just want/need/or are ready for a new bike. It's a total personal choice what makes someone's motorcycle life happy and what makes economic since to one person is different from the next. 

To answer the questions 

You'll probably feel the same way about the new forks. However Beta Factory suspension can make them great. ( I know that's a whole different debate)

The new cylinder does give the bike some extra boost, plus is even more linear 

New clutch does have a nicer feel and a slightly lighter pull

With the new frame/weight reduction the bikes do handle better. Especially on turn entry. 

I haven't ridden a newer KTM 300 so I can't compare that. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by ccullins

[hawaiidirtrider]

I thought there was no debate from those that rode with beta factory s?uspension 

[ged93]

Hi , my beta dealer here , who works also on forks for mx/enduro , has suggested me to try a couple of things on my sachs forks before re-valving ( in case of bad feeling ) : use a kayaba oil with different density , change the fork spring and/or change the pre-load on forks springs.

I have a RR '17 300 Race and I've tried this forks set-up , which comes from the same person : 20 clicks on up side and 15 clicks on down side and it was pretty good also for forks break in , in these days I've tried to close 6 clicks on down side and it feels much better .

Revalving is the cheaper way , and you don't have to spend tons of money to make a big difference in your suspensions , also you can buy ohlins complete hydraulics on Boano website , if you want the best .

 

 

[ktm300]

Bums me out the Beta seems to be struggling a bit with that CC fork, and then GG shows up with a KYB.  

The Beta with a off road valved KYB fork is incredible.