2018 300RR or XC-W I'm torn

[Hans Schmid]

20 minutes ago, YHGEORGE said:

What would 9NM relate to in ft lbs if not using antiseize? Thanks.

http://bfy.tw/Gahq

[GP]

12 hours ago, YHGEORGE said:

What would 9NM relate to in ft lbs if not using antiseize? Thanks.

Why would you not use antiseize on a steel bolt in an aluminum thread that is sensitive to torque value?  Lubricated threads are 20-30% less than clean dry threads for the same clamping force. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by GP

[moto367]

39 minutes ago, GP said:

Why would you not use antiseize on a steel bolt in an aluminum thread that is sensitive to torque value?  Lubricated threads are 20-30% less than clean dry threads for the same clamping force. 

20-30% less what...torque?  If so, then that's where guys can get in trouble and over torque.  I used to work for a company that would not warranty the product if any lube was used on the threads for this reason. 

[GP]

5 minutes ago, moto367 said:

20-30% less what...torque?  If so, then that's where guys can get in trouble and over torque.  I used to work for a company that would not warranty the product if any lube was used on the threads for this reason. 

Maybe some get into trouble but this is basic machinist/mechanic knowledge.  Been doing this for many years and have my own table for the Beta for it I posted on BRC years ago.  I go even lower than that on the triples, as low as I can go without slippage in typical falls/crashes, which has been 8-9Nm with clean surfaces on the Beta clamps.  I get the liability reason, hell, my Ducati was bathed in Loctite even the M5 buttonhead bodywork bolts.  But practically, why would a steel bolt go together dry in an aluminum thread in the environment of a dirt bike ?  IMO its either antieseize for service R&R or Loctite (which will also seal threads to a point) if critical or a problem fastener.  JMO but I have ZERO issues on an approx 350 hr bike.

[Goatse]

I'm the same. If it's a steel fastener in aluminum, it gets anti-seize every time. Quite often I'll even put it on the steel into steel fasteners.

[Piney Woods]

7 hours ago, GP said:

Why would you not use antiseize on a steel bolt in an aluminum thread that is sensitive to torque value?  Lubricated threads are 20-30% less than clean dry threads for the same clamping force. 

I have had respected tuners tell me that a lubricant will cause me to over tighten and possibly damage the tubes. I understand the diff metal thing but not an engineer type and just asking. I am not totally understanding your last sentence. If I need 15 ft lbs what do you suggest with a lubricant? Thanks.

Edited February 14, 2018 by YHGEORGE

[GP]

What can I say, this is not rocket science.  Its 20-30% easier to turn a lubricated bolt than a dry one, so the torque wrench clicks off with 20-30% more travel of the threads, or 20-30% more clamping force of the assembly.  So, how much do you think you compensate for in adjusting the torque wrench for an antiseized fastener?

[Piney Woods]

deleted post

Edited February 14, 2018 by YHGEORGE

[jpbova]

2 minutes ago, YHGEORGE said:

OK, I can do the math. But I asked a simple question that is obviously in your wheelhouse and you chose to be a prick. You constipated or just showing your true colors?

Woah!  I think you are taking this way too personal not to mention projecting a lot of attitude into what GP said.   

[Piney Woods]

Whoa. ?

[shrubitup]

59 minutes ago, YHGEORGE said:

Whoa. ?

It's not you George but rather your bike. Buy a Beta already.

[Piney Woods]

Huh? Does that have something to do with my question?

[weantright]

10 hours ago, GP said:

Why would you not use antiseize on a steel bolt in an aluminum thread that is sensitive to torque value?  Lubricated threads are 20-30% less than clean dry threads for the same clamping force. 

I believe it 12-15% increase in torque when lub is used. 15 ftlbs less lub is 12.75 ftlbs at high end of percentage. 

[Piney Woods]

Thanks wean. Your post also points out there are differences in thought concerning the diff in pct. used.

[GP]

I had an old machinists handbook years ago that said 20 -30%, didn't pull it out of my ass. I err on the conservative side, and I have no problems with fasteners.

George, you apparently had an issue understanding, so it was explained differently and you take offense. And yeah I can and will be a prick when it's deserved, this wasn't my intention at this time, but if you would like it to be game on. My friends from TX have far thicker skin.

[Piney Woods]

22 minutes ago, GP said:

I had an old machinists handbook years ago that said 20 -30%, didn't pull it out of my ass. I err on the conservative side, and I have no problems with fasteners.

George, you apparently had an issue understanding, so it was explained differently and you take offense. And yeah I can and will be a prick when it's deserved, this wasn't my intention at this time, but if you would like it to be game on. My friends from TX have far thicker skin.

I saw your explanation as far different. Your "explanation" came across exactly as you intended , you know it as do I. I can very much understand how others would have and need thicker skin in being "friends" with you. Getting back to the topic, I will continue with the method that worked for me with no issues since there are different schools of thought.

[Goatse]

I think George needs to eat a Snickers.

[GP]

I saw your explanation as far different. Your "explanation" came across exactly as you intended , you know it as do I. I can very much understand how others would have and need thicker skin in being "friends" with you. Getting back to the topic, I will continue with the method that worked for me with no issues since there are different schools of thought.

Jesus, get over it and don't be such a snowflake, this is a dirt bike site! Do as you wish with the clamps but it seems to me you would get more consistent force correcting for lubed threads rather than with dirt and oxidation.

[babyarmholdingapple]

thats George

 

get a XC, the airfork is just the next level and the sachs are a level gone by

[motoxgiant]

Properly set up, the Sachs CC are a match for the KYB SSS, and the rear shock is very good. Guys that have ridden Sachs that I have set up, on 2Ts and 4Ts alike, have stated that they are the most balanced and capable suspension they've ridden.

We machined triple clamps (and machined and fitted brake hangers, relocated speedo pickups, machined spacers, sourced axles, and cobbled fork guards and brake hose clamps) and fitted KYBs to the Betas in 2013 because the 250s weren't offered as Race Edition bikes with the Marzocchi PFP 48mm forks. We aren't not doing that anymore because the end result is only equivalent to what is now available in a set of valved Sachs CC forks.