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gr4vitas

2018 300RR or XC-W I'm torn

179 posts in this topic

12 hours ago, jpbova said:

You are one of the first that I have heard of that beta warrantied the tubes. I'm tempted to the get 18 forks hard coated too but I'm holding out hoping beta fixed the problem.   You are smart to have Steve hard coat them right away

Hard coating is better to do now then after wear. Tomorrow maybe too late and will cost more. 

CKNY - KYB’s do deflect when not set up for the woods. However they don’t wear poorly and have a much better performance history. Well worth the cost to upgrade and you will sleep better at night knowing you don’t have to deal with the Sachs wearing issue,,, or possible issue. 

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33 minutes ago, weantright said:

Hard coating is better to do now then after wear. Tomorrow maybe too late and will cost more. 

CKNY - KYB’s do deflect when not set up for the woods. However they don’t wear poorly and have a much better performance history. Well worth the cost to upgrade and you will sleep better at night knowing you don’t have to deal with the Sachs wearing issue,,, or possible issue. 

Yeah I know, I have a pretty awesome set up from Dave J. Even the stock forks on the FX did get some minor deflection but much of that is related to the stock front tire. Suspension is all a compromise, there is no perfect set up. I ride a lot of hardpack and rock so I have a stable set up that deals with my normal conditions the best. 

I can get a Beta at cost but the suspension has always kept me from doing this. The 18 WP AER is really good, if I was to buy a new 2 stroke right now it would most likely be a Husky TX. Too much work to swap the Sachs or fix them for me.

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8 hours ago, ckny said:

I can get a Beta at cost but the suspension has always kept me from doing this.

Just putting it out there that my 15 Beta Sachs suspended 300RR open chamber is the best suspended bike I've ever had for the type of riding I do which does not include speed, racing, or jumping. I've had revalved KYB SSS by LT Racing and did once ride a 17 250XCW but neither of these are as plush or kept me as planted as my open chamber Sachs. Zero deflection also makes me very happy and so far these deliver.

Edited by shrubitup
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I’ve ridden every Beta suspension since 13 and they just don’t work for me, especially the OC. They are just too soft, even under braking there is just so much dive. I never feel in control riding one. I gotta say my Smart Performance KYB set up blows away any Zoke or Sachs fork when it comes to plushness, just no comparison for me. Awesome the OC works good for you. I just hit stuff too hard for those forks. 

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22 minutes ago, shrubitup said:

Just putting it out there that my 15 Beta Sachs suspended 300RR open chamber is the best suspended bike I've ever had for the type of riding I do which does not include speed, racing, or jumping. I've had revalved KYB SSS by LT Racing and did once ride a 17 250XCW but neither of these are as plush or kept me as planted as my open chamber Sachs. Zero deflection also makes me very happy and so far these deliver.

My OC 15 300 rr works awesome too. I just have different weight and volume oil and much stiffer springs.. Stiffer than my true weight. I rode another Beta with Stillwell suspension for a much heavier guy for KOM . I rode it and liked it and wanted at least the same spring rate so my tuner put it in and it’s close enough to the bike I rode. I know with more playing with it will make it better and better but it’s damn good now.  I know I can spend for high dollar Suspension too but what for when the bike isgood now. Later I’ll upgrade if I feel like it. Im racing hare scrambles and technical and no jumping. I look with interest at guys talking about suspension on beta threads just taking note. I keep talking to my dealer about what guys are liking and not liking and what is available that would be much better for my bike. He knows I’ll pay for whatever upgrades. We trade bikes riding and I ride a variety of bikes to see how each run.Its not like any other guys bikes feel better than mine. I rode a tricked out yz300 and it didn’t feel better than my 300rr. I was expecting it to be better from all the chatter here online. Nope. The kyb talk was just kyb talk. And I rode great showas goldvalved on my Honda for a decade. 

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5 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

I rode a tricked out yz300 and it didn’t feel better than my 300rr. I was expecting it to be better from all the chatter here online. Nope. The kyb talk was just kyb talk.

Most who praise the KYB are not trail riding. Well, they might ride some trails to get to where they want to be and that's the faster, open, flowy stuff. I specifically look for trails that limit my speed.

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45 minutes ago, shrubitup said:

Most who praise the KYB are not trail riding. Well, they might ride some trails to get to where they want to be and that's the faster, open, flowy stuff. I specifically look for trails that limit my speed.

There’s a flock of yz 250 and x riders on KYB. They are great and good like my showas were on my cr . Lots like their showas and kyb and whatever here in the trail . For me all the beta suspension hate for Beta is only online . No one is bitching here except for the guys that bought race editions and need to revalve.. they bitch about the forks being too stiff. Ok makes sense it’s supposed to be for more open racing . Betas from the start have been out of the box set up softer in suspension. .. but we usually have to setup suspension for or use. It’s all generic settings. As far as fork wear? I didn’t have any on the last revalve. I’ll see with the next. I haven’t had my friends with Beta have issues with bad wear with their forks. Like I said all the beta suspension issues I only read about online. We got a flock of Betas here.. more 2 stoke enduro but I don’t here of guys saying how Sachs suck or guys changing forks blah blah blah. Some guys go to our dealer for suspension tuning or Stillwell or LT or whomever that’s some. No one here have changed to kyb or any other forks. Id see themat the races or in the trails.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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Fair enough on that.  Technically not a fair suspension comparison.  I think what I was trying to get across is that the XCW is a good bike and is not a bad thing to consider if he goes down the route of a new purchase.  I agree though that if it were my decision I would keep the 16', revalve it and add the odie guard.  Exactly what I did and plan to do (with the revalve). :)

One thing you guys are forgetting is the entire fubared intake system on the xcw. From the air filter cage to the reeds. Jd can make it run, sort of, but the real fix is complete replacement of the garbage ktm supplied their 10k bike with.
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3 hours ago, shrubitup said:

Most who praise the KYB are not trail riding. Well, they might ride some trails to get to where they want to be and that's the faster, open, flowy stuff. I specifically look for trails that limit my speed.

You can tune a KYB closed chamber fork do anything you want, from slow novice trail riding to AA harescrabes and expert MX.  Nothing but shims and proper springs needed.  No mega $$ kits. You can't do that with a Sachs OC.  Its that simple.

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1 minute ago, GP said:

You can tune a KYB closed chamber fork do anything you want, from slow novice trail riding to AA harescrabes and expert MX.  Nothing but shims and proper springs needed.  No mega $$ kits. You can't do that with a Sachs OC.  Its that simple.

Good point but this pair of Sachs feel great as-is without need for valves and shims. My point is that many claim the Sachs are poor performing but I disagree. :smirk: Suspension is a bit subjective so I'm just throwing out some more subjectivity here. :prof:

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8 minutes ago, shrubitup said:

Good point but this pair of Sachs feel great as-is without need for valves and shims. My point is that many claim the Sachs are poor performing but I disagree. :smirk: Suspension is a bit subjective so I'm just throwing out some more subjectivity here. :prof:

Glad your happy, I'm sure some others are too.  For a broader spectrum of riders, and in greater numbers, you would find more satisfaction overall with a well tuned CC fork.  I've tuned and ridden different CCs and OCs, and no way could I go back to OCs.  

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19 minutes ago, GP said:

You can tune a KYB closed chamber fork do anything you want, from slow novice trail riding to AA harescrabes and expert MX.  Nothing but shims and proper springs needed.  No mega $$ kits. You can't do that with a Sachs OC.  Its that simple.

There’s no need to. It’s just set up for what one is riding and racing. Most of us aren’t racing expert mx.  I raced the last sprint enduro here. 4 motos. First 3 motos were about an hour each with 3 different loops. The last 4th moto was the 3 loops back to back. That’s around 5 to 6 hours racing as we got faster knowing the course on the last moto. Shit my oc sachs worked great. I came in 3rd but screwed up. I was supposed to come second but missed the course flag and had to backtrack. I sure wasn’t suffering. The suspension worked well. If it didn’t Id be talking to my suspension guy on figuring out a better setup. 

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It all depends on terrain. In the quicker flowy stuff, the CC Sachs on my Beta are fine IMO. But when I ride in the mountains with bouldered rock beds, they're the worst I've ever ridden. I can't even count how many times I've been deflected right off the trail on a rocky hill climb. They're confidence killers for sure.

 

I'm not picky either. Those same trails, I find the stock KYB's on my FX just fine, and any better would probably blow my mind.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Goatse said:

It all depends on terrain. In the quicker flowy stuff, the CC Sachs on my Beta are fine IMO. But when I ride in the mountains with bouldered rock beds, they're the worst I've ever ridden. I can't even count how many times I've been deflected right off the trail on a rocky hill climb. They're confidence killers for sure.

 

I'm not picky either. Those same trails, I find the stock KYB's on my FX just fine, and any better would probably blow my mind.

 

 

That’s exactly how local guys describe the stock cc Beta race edition forks are described locally. That’s why if I bought a new beta race edition Id have suspension done before I even get it. It’s well known locally that out of the box the oc sachs on the regular rr is better. It’s good for local riding.  It’s softer and smoother and way better in the tech which is more common. And then if you’re heavy or light it’s change springs and stock oil should be changed relatively quickly to me on any bike. There’s break in time too so it softens some. Of course generic stock settings may or may not be great for certain riders but it aint bad at all. Otherwise Id hear it from all my friends and guys locally wouldn’t be buying Betas.They do.  I purposely bought the rr oc sachs fork because it’s known to be good and better than an out of the box 300 race edition. That’s the word from local guys riding Beta. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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3 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

That’s exactly how local guys describe the stock cc Beta race edition forks are described locally. That’s why if I bought a new beta race edition Id have suspension done before I even get it. It’s well known locally that out of the box the oc sachs on the regular rr is better. It’s good for local riding.  It’s softer and smoother and way better in the tech which is more common. And then if you’re heavy or light it’s change springs and stock oil should be changed relatively quickly to me on any bike. There’s break in time too so it softens some. Of course generic stock settings may or may not be great for certain riders but it aint bad at all. Otherwise Id hear it from all my friends and guys locally wouldn’t be buying Betas.They do.  I purposely bought the rr oc sachs fork because it’s known to be good and better than an out of the box 300 race edition. That’s the word from local guys riding Beta. 

Beta makes the decision quite simple really. If you are racing, buy the race edition. If you don't race, don't buy the race edition. Cool that there's two versions!

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15 minutes ago, shrubitup said:

Beta makes the decision quite simple really. If you are racing, buy the race edition. If you don't race, don't buy the race edition. Cool that there's two versions!

Yea and actually they have everything in between. The BYOB and the accessories for suspension have way more options than any other brand. It’s crazy how many options guys can choose. Can go full Ohlins or different stages of upgrades. Im good racing with stock OC forks with different weight oil and way stiffer springs. Im stoked that I can upgrade to better than what I have. I mean I race and still am in there to win or place or not but I still love how my bike and it’s suspension works. I can’t lose with those that consider the OC sachs fork sub par. Im like “ Great if this is considered shitty awesome!”...” If I upgrade to some ohlins or whatever fancy pancy suspension  later I’ll be even more happy with my bike.. and I still don’t see another brand of bike I rather have than what I have now.

Right now I trail ride and I race sometimes. I see all the choices of bike and see how they work and I ride other bikes trading sometimes. &%$#@! I don’t want any other bike. Honestly if I saw something better Id just get it. I don’t have many years left riding. If someone wants a husky or ktm or ktm &%$#@! it buy it. Want another fork on your Beta? Hell buy that too.. life is short.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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The only edge I see on the Ktm might be the counterbalancer other than that it’s all Beta to me. I also got bored of orange. If Id buy a ktm Id buy white or black plastics to start. Id go Husky with a link before ktm. It’s better looking to start. Id rather a lower bike to start. I had a tall seat on my Beta but went back to the stock lower seat. It’s better for extreme. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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12 hours ago, Goatse said:

It all depends on terrain. In the quicker flowy stuff, the CC Sachs on my Beta are fine IMO. But when I ride in the mountains with bouldered rock beds, they're the worst I've ever ridden. I can't even count how many times I've been deflected right off the trail on a rocky hill climb. They're confidence killers for sure.

 

I'm not picky either. Those same trails, I find the stock KYB's on my FX just fine, and any better would probably blow my mind.

 

 

I'm talking KYB CCs not Sachs.  I have a setup on mine that is fairly stiff, single stage base even, to hold up for harescrambles in a big series with variable terrain.  In addition I can and do ride it in extreme rocky terrain, and it does not deflect of beat me up.  I've done this with the 48 Zokes as well on two sets I had and a current set on a buddy's bike.   I have no experience with the Sachs CCs, if they are tougher to cover a range or terrain I would not know.  I did some OCs and compared to my forks even in rocks no thank you.

Edited by GP

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12 hours ago, Goatse said:

It all depends on terrain. In the quicker flowy stuff, the CC Sachs on my Beta are fine IMO. But when I ride in the mountains with bouldered rock beds, they're the worst I've ever ridden. I can't even count how many times I've been deflected right off the trail on a rocky hill climb. They're confidence killers for sure.

 

I'm not picky either. Those same trails, I find the stock KYB's on my FX just fine, and any better would probably blow my mind.

 

 

That statement should tell you right there that the KYBs are more versatile.  FX valving is fairly stiff too.

Edited by GP
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