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2018 300RR or XC-W I'm torn

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1 hour ago, motoxgiant said:

Properly set up, the Sachs CC are a match for the KYB SSS, and the rear shock is very good. Guys that have ridden Sachs that I have set up, on 2Ts and 4Ts alike, have stated that they are the most balanced and capable suspension they've ridden.

We machined triple clamps (and machined and fitted brake hangers, relocated speedo pickups, machined spacers, sourced axles, and cobbled fork guards and brake hose clamps) and fitted KYBs to the Betas in 2013 because the 250s weren't offered as Race Edition bikes with the Marzocchi PFP 48mm forks. We aren't not doing that anymore because the end result is only equivalent to what is now available in a set of valved Sachs CC forks. 

Oh really? I said on another thread if buying a new Race edition Beta Id have my suspension done by Beta cc suspension service before even getting my bike and a bunch jumped on me like I was a fool :lol: . I said Holcombe won 2 E3 championships with sachs cc forks and it was  ignored and still there was only the:excuseme::smirk: kyb forks party. Whatever. I’m just noticing some online trends is all. Thanks for contributing to the conversation with some real world experience . 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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5 hours ago, motoxgiant said:

Properly set up, the Sachs CC are a match for the KYB SSS, and the rear shock is very good. Guys that have ridden Sachs that I have set up, on 2Ts and 4Ts alike, have stated that they are the most balanced and capable suspension they've ridden.

We machined triple clamps (and machined and fitted brake hangers, relocated speedo pickups, machined spacers, sourced axles, and cobbled fork guards and brake hose clamps) and fitted KYBs to the Betas in 2013 because the 250s weren't offered as Race Edition bikes with the Marzocchi PFP 48mm forks. We aren't not doing that anymore because the end result is only equivalent to what is now available in a set of valved Sachs CC forks. 

And then you throw a few bucks at the KYB and blow the doors off of the modded Sachs...

I have yet to ride a set of modded Sachs CC’s that are as good as a stock set of KYB’s off of an FX or X for instance. 

You must have the magic solution. What are they doing to the Sachs to make them that good? I know a lot of people that would love to know. 

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2 hours ago, ckny said:

And then you throw a few bucks at the KYB and blow the doors off of the modded Sachs...

I have yet to ride a set of modded Sachs CC’s that are as good as a stock set of KYB’s off of an FX or X for instance. 

You must have the magic solution. What are they doing to the Sachs to make them that good? I know a lot of people that would love to know. 

... and I'd like to know the formula to Colonel Sander's chicken :lol:

If you'd care to send us a set of your Sachs forks we'll get you dialed in ...

 

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5 minutes ago, motoxgiant said:

... and I'd like to know the formula to Colonel Sander's chicken :lol:

If you'd care to send us a set of your Sachs forks we'll get you dialed in ...

 

Lol good answer. Great that you have figured out a good fix. I don’t have a set myself. I will be riding Beta snowbikes tomorrow all day testing out new track kits on a 480 and 430. If you wanna send me a message with some info and base pricing I’d be happy to share it with the Beta importer for Canada. I’m less than impressed with what the supposed best Beta suspension shop in Canada is offering. It’s not much further sending to you than where they are located.

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My recent ride on a new 350rr RR was pretty good. Suspension was good but still a ways from great... Some new pistons and some shims and I would think you could get it every good as anything else out there both stock and revalved... I think the Beta chassis is the saving grace for the suspension... 

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... and I'd like to know the formula to Colonel Sander's chicken 


Why? Popeye's is way better chicken.

KFC to Popeye's, is like Sachs to KYB.


P.S. If a tuner offered a DIY package like Smart Performance does for the KYB's, I'd imagine they'd get more work than strictly leaving it to doing forks in their own shop. If a tuner is worried about their 'recipe' getting out there, I'd imagine any decent person/customer if asked, would not post or share what was in the package they got for their DIY kit.
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10 hours ago, motoxgiant said:

Properly set up, the Sachs CC are a match for the KYB SSS, and the rear shock is very good. Guys that have ridden Sachs that I have set up, on 2Ts and 4Ts alike, have stated that they are the most balanced and capable suspension they've ridden.

We machined triple clamps (and machined and fitted brake hangers, relocated speedo pickups, machined spacers, sourced axles, and cobbled fork guards and brake hose clamps) and fitted KYBs to the Betas in 2013 because the 250s weren't offered as Race Edition bikes with the Marzocchi PFP 48mm forks. We aren't not doing that anymore because the end result is only equivalent to what is now available in a set of valved Sachs CC forks. 

I had a set of the marzocchi PFP 48mm forks. When fresh they did perform very good but the freshness didn't last long. I had one of those hungry sets. In the end if your bike comes with Sachs CC, run them as most would be happy. If you need to buy forks Sachs would not be my first choice.

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2 hours ago, Goatse said:

 


Why? Popeye's is way better chicken.

KFC to Popeye's, is like Sachs to KYB.


P.S. If a tuner offered a DIY package like Smart Performance does for the KYB's, I'd imagine they'd get more work than strictly leaving it to doing forks in their own shop. If a tuner is worried about their 'recipe' getting out there, I'd imagine any decent person/customer if asked, would not post or share what was in the package they got for their DIY kit.

Keyword being "decent".  Fact is many people are not decent or ethical, been down this road myself.  I don't blame and 100% agree with a pro tuner not sharing specs on a public forum.  Its intellectual property developed on his time to provide an income.  Choosing to provide input, opinion, and guidance in a technical discussion is another matter.

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Keyword being "decent".  Fact is many people are not decent or ethical, been down this road myself.  I don't blame and 100% agree with a pro tuner not sharing specs on a public forum.  Its intellectual property developed on his time to provide an income.  Choosing to provide input, opinion, and guidance in a technical discussion is another matter.


I'm not referring to them posting them on a public forum. I'm talking about selling shim kits that guys install themselves. The tuner supplies the shims, and the order in which they're placed.

Which IMO isn't 'that' much different because if they do the shim shuffle themselves, if someone was an &%$#@! they could still pull the stack and measure what the tuner put in.

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4 minutes ago, Goatse said:

 


I'm not referring to them posting them on a public forum. I'm talking about selling shim kits that guys install themselves. The tuner supplies the shims, and the order in which they're placed.

Which IMO isn't 'that' much different because if they do the shim shuffle themselves, if someone was an &%$#@! they could still pull the stack and measure what the tuner put in.

Yeah I know but its easier to open a bag and share the build sheet.  Believe me when I was a mod on another forum guys would try to get a tuners specs from other guys, ask for it publicly, etc.  If there are special pistons involved then its more viable as the stacks would be useless without them.  Exactly like a Gold Valve kit.

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3 hours ago, Goatse said:

 


I'm not referring to them posting them on a public forum. I'm talking about selling shim kits that guys install themselves. The tuner supplies the shims, and the order in which they're placed.

Which IMO isn't 'that' much different because if they do the shim shuffle themselves, if someone was an &%$#@! they could still pull the stack and measure what the tuner put in.

 

Dave from SPI is pretty open about his build sheets, he sends a detailed build sheet with all the specs. Anybody can reverse engineer his parts if they want. Some guys act like it’s all some kind of black magic but really like most industries there are not really a lot of secrets or others that have not done the same things. 

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11 hours ago, ckny said:

And then you throw a few bucks at the KYB and blow the doors off of the modded Sachs...

I have yet to ride a set of modded Sachs CC’s that are as good as a stock set of KYB’s off of an FX or X for instance. 

You must have the magic solution. What are they doing to the Sachs to make them that good? I know a lot of people that would love to know. 

Oh please. :facepalm: kyb isn’t a magical suspension. It’s not better than showas . It’s not better than any cc brand forks set up right. If it was so great I and a whole bunch of Beta riders would have changed suspension here. Not one have. I would have switched years ago. Lots here would. I listen to some here and have to smile.. whatever.. I rode other guys bikes here with a variety of suspension and I continue to be uninspired with ktm or gasgas or yamaha and honda ..blah blah blah. The best Ive ridden has been an 11 gasgas 250 ohlins setup and a moto connection redone 15 430 race edition Beta. My racetech showas were great on my cr. Now motocgiant gets dissed too:lol: 

classic. Don’t believe this guy. He’s gotta be full of it. What does he know?

 

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Funny how these threads take their own direction. The OP has not even chimed in since post #1 and 7 pages later we have an entertaining suspension debate which doesn't help me... I just want to know 2 things  1)what's the best oil to use, 2) are 2 strokes better than 4 strokes??

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Just now, ckny said:

Lol who pays him again?

I know right.  Even though I believe the guy. 

4 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Oh please. :facepalm: kyb isn’t a magical suspension. It’s not better than showas . It’s not better than any cc brand forks set up right. If it was so great I and a whole bunch of Beta riders would have changed suspension here. Not one have. I would have switched years ago. Lots here would. I listen to some here and have to smile.. whatever.. I rode other guys bikes here with a variety of suspension and I continue to be uninspired with ktm or gasgas or yamaha and honda ..blah blah blah. The best Ive ridden has been an 11 gasgas 250 ohlins setup and a moto connection redone 15 430 race edition Beta. My racetech showas were great on my cr. Now motocgiant gets dissed too:lol: 

classic. Don’t believe this guy. He’s gotta be full of it. What does he know?

 

I have ridden KYBs stock on a FX and Sachs revalved, and although they are close, the stock KYBs were still better.  I think that combined with the issues the Sachs have had puts the KYB miles ahead. that being said, KYB forks can have the same anodizing issues, they just aren't as prevalent.  Sachs have a couple years before they can make up the ground to prove they have solved the issues.  And as far as Holcombe goes they probably give him a fresh set of forks every other race.  There is a reason KYB is the gold standard. 

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3 minutes ago, silver_fox said:

Funny how these threads take their own direction. The OP has not even chimed in since post #1 and 7 pages later we have an entertaining suspension debate which doesn't help me... I just want to know 2 things  1)what's the best oil to use, 2) are 2 strokes better than 4 strokes??

Well, what brand of spark plug do you want to use?

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Oh please. :facepalm: kyb isn’t a magical suspension. It’s not better than showas . It’s not better than any cc brand forks  

 

 

How many guys do you see pulling KYB's off their bike and doing a bunch of mods so they can run Sachs?

 

Also, you'll find many guys like myself who had to have our outer tubes coated at 30 hours of use on the bike.

 

I'm sure the Sachs can be made to work well, but don't be so ignorant to claim they're on the same level as KYB.

 

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16 minutes ago, Goatse said:
 
 
How many guys do you see pulling KYB's off their bike and doing a bunch of mods so they can run Sachs?
 
Also, you'll find many guys like myself who had to have our outer tubes coated at 30 hours of use on the bike.
 
I'm sure the Sachs can be made to work well, but don't be so ignorant to claim they're on the same level as KYB.
 


This

great point. I don't know anyone pulling off their KYBs to replace them

Edited by jpbova

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24 minutes ago, Goatse said:

 

 


How many guys do you see pulling KYB's off their bike for Sachs?

Also, you'll find many guys like myself who had to have our outer tubes coated at 30 hours of use on the bike.

I'm sure the Sachs can be made to work well, but don't be so ignorant to claim they're on the same level as KYB.

 

 

Guys are familiar with kyb from riding tons of japanese bikes for decades. Does that mean better? Not judging by results. Look at how many that don’t even try to tune Sachs. How many have said they will just switch instead of tuning whats on their bike. Bottom line is setup your bike no matter what the suspension . 

I just rode a freshly serviced yz kyb. It was alright and the guy riding it is an A rider about my weight. I was fully expecting it to be much better than my 300 rr which should need servicing. I was not impressed. It’s good but not so great like guys say here online. Honestly it was no better than my bike. I went back to my bike thinking Id feel a negative difference.. zero. My bike felt at least as good and the yz rider loved my bike. Im not biting any of this anymore. Ive been riding various bikes wondering where Im going to find this superior suspension shit and it’s not there.  Im going to continue to upgrade my suspension the longer I have my bike. I keep trying different bikes to see how they run and keep talking to my suspension tuner. So far kyb isn’t the magic some are selling. It’s not like I haven’t ridden kyb and showa and zokes and wp and ohlins and any other suspension all these years. I have. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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