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ged93

KTM fail with extreme enduro ?

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Hey everyone , I was looking some extreme enduro races ( Though One , Bassella Race , Hell's Gate ... ) and I was taking a look about Beta riders , Teasdale and others , they had great results and race tracks were great but ... I've noticed a little thing : Jarvis , Bolt , Walker and Blazusiak were riding with ... a 350 4s !!!

No 2s tpi for official ktm/husqy team ! At the moment the only one that has used it is Cody Webb at TKO , so I think they don't want to ride one because it doesn't work or maybe there is something that we don't know , it's really strange as top riders should use always the last model available 

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It’s called sponsorship. Manufacturers will sell more 4 strokes if their top rider rides a 4 stroke..Thats especially for extreme. I have a 350 and a couple of 300s and a 525. I ride extreme trail with all of them. The 350 is ok but its not as good as my 525 and my 525 isnt as good as my gasgas and my gasgas 300 isnt as good as my 300 rr. I don’t know any that I ride with that rather have a 250 or 350 4 stroke for extreme than their 2 strokes. Got the street legal dirtbike guys that ride to the trails on the street but thats a different benefit. Im doubting the pros are preferring a 4 stroke for extreme enduro.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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8 hours ago, ged93 said:

Hey everyone , I was looking some extreme enduro races ( Though One , Bassella Race , Hell's Gate ... ) and I was taking a look about Beta riders , Teasdale and others , they had great results and race tracks were great but ... I've noticed a little thing : Jarvis , Bolt , Walker and Blazusiak were riding with ... a 350 4s !!!

No 2s tpi for official ktm/husqy team ! At the moment the only one that has used it is Cody Webb at TKO , so I think they don't want to ride one because it doesn't work or maybe there is something that we don't know , it's really strange as top riders should use always the last model available 

350 or 250?

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8 hours ago, ged93 said:

Hey everyone , I was looking some extreme enduro races ( Though One , Bassella Race , Hell's Gate ... ) and I was taking a look about Beta riders , Teasdale and others , they had great results and race tracks were great but ... I've noticed a little thing : Jarvis , Bolt , Walker and Blazusiak were riding with ... a 350 4s !!!

No 2s tpi for official ktm/husqy team ! At the moment the only one that has used it is Cody Webb at TKO , so I think they don't want to ride one because it doesn't work or maybe there is something that we don't know , it's really strange as top riders should use always the last model available 

The pros are not using the TPI because it does not work very well yet. It is still very early in it's design. The load vs rpm vs power modulated is still very janky. Read the reviews done in Europe about the problems with slow steep hils and the TPI making bad power.  Also, two strokes have very narrow power bands. Too narrow for sections that can be handled in one gear over 8000+ rpm. One a two stroke you would be shifting.....

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Gram is running a 250xcf and a 300TPI in the races. He stated using the 4t for faster more open tracks. Others are following suit but I don't know what bikes there are using.

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On 2/11/2018 at 7:14 PM, THE KRAN said:

The pros are not using the TPI because it does not work very well yet. It is still very early in it's design. The load vs rpm vs power modulated is still very janky. Read the reviews done in Europe about the problems with slow steep hils and the TPI making bad power.  Also, two strokes have very narrow power bands. Too narrow for sections that can be handled in one gear over 8000+ rpm. One a two stroke you would be shifting.....

Believe the first part about TPI, but the part about a 2 stroke having too short of a powerband is pure nonsense.

For the record, I have a 300 and a 350...

 

Edited by Sierra_rider
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Yes KTM fail. 1st they bail out of Enduro GP after having their dominant streak broken By Beta. Then they go to Extreme Enduro and create their own series and force their riders to ride the FI 2t's which they are mostly choosing 4t's instead and getting beat so far. Not a good look, let's see how long they stick with this plan.

http://enduro21.com/index.php/extreme/2990-mario-roman-wins-2018-hell-s-gate

 

Edited by Johnny Depp

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Both of those issues are reportedly been address. Cold bikes have been reported with poor running until hot. Then runs just like a carb version. In any case these are not issues the Pro's are facing since the bikes are hand prep/re-assembled.

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We will see when the bikes get here and guys have been riding them for a while.  EFI in 4 strokes are around a couple years now for Beta and been around much longer for other brands. As it stands I still like a carb better for 2 and 4. EFI hasn’t shown to be a better system except maybe for large changes in elevation riding and even then thats not an issue for most and the reality is Beta always liked a carb better but were adapting to new laws because they had to. This is all old news. The only relationship is I like a carb more than TPI. Beta too but you do what ya gotta do. I only need a screwdriver to tune instead of hundreds to over a grand for an efi tuner. 

Old but relevant info. Betas preference.

https://www.endurotyres.com/five-mins-betas-frank-schroeder/

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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Nothing new ktm has always used there customers as Ginny pigs.  It will be great next year, just going to cost customers some time and money.

No sweat of ktm's back

They did a pretty good job just not good enough imo for what they cost, they should have waited another year, but that wouldn't have been good for there bottom line.

Edited by jmd426
changes
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3 hours ago, Sierra_rider said:

I like my carbed 2 strokes, but after owning my '18 350, I'm never going back to carbed 4 stroke.

Say that in a couple years. When things go wrong for efi 4 strokes the trail side fix isn’t easy like a carb. Hope Im wrong and efi is super reliable now but that’s part of liking a carb. Problems with efi usually mean being towed out. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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2 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Say that in a couple years. When things go wrong for efi 4 strokes the trail side fix isn’t easy like a carb. Hope Im wrong and efi is super reliable now but that’s part of liking a carb. Problems with efi usually mean being towed out. 

I've had my fair share of problems with a carb...assuming you are capable of basic maintenance, efi should be even more reliable than a carb. Perfect fueling, no flameouts, and more responsive power is hard to beat. I'm a big 2 stroke fan and my 350 is the 4 stroke that most closely matches the powerband of one of my 300's.

Add to that the extreme elevation change that we face in the western states...carbed 4 strokes struggle with elevation change. Big-bores less so, but I find the 450+ bikes to be rather boring.

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2 hours ago, Sierra_rider said:

I've had my fair share of problems with a carb...assuming you are capable of basic maintenance, efi should be even more reliable than a carb. Perfect fueling, no flameouts, and more responsive power is hard to beat. I'm a big 2 stroke fan and my 350 is the 4 stroke that most closely matches the powerband of one of my 300's.

Add to that the extreme elevation change that we face in the western states...carbed 4 strokes struggle with elevation change. Big-bores less so, but I find the 450+ bikes to be rather boring.

Well hope it doesn’t give you trouble.

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14 hours ago, Sierra_rider said:

I like my carbed 2 strokes, but after owning my '18 350, I'm never going back to carbed 4 stroke.

I gotta say it's the other way for us. After living with EFI 4-strokes the last couple of years I'm really happy to only have 2-strokes with carbs in the shop now. 

As for why Jarvis and other guys are on 4t's I don't know. I think it's all internet speculation why. I'm personally a little surprised. For that kind of riding I would rather be on a bad running 2 stroke than any fourstroke, but I've never ridden a Factory tuned KTM/Husky 250f ether. Plus I don't exactly ride like those guys. 

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6 hours ago, ccullins said:

I gotta say it's the other way for us. After living with EFI 4-strokes the last couple of years I'm really happy to only have 2-strokes with carbs in the shop now. 

As for why Jarvis and other guys are on 4t's I don't know. I think it's all internet speculation why. I'm personally a little surprised. For that kind of riding I would rather be on a bad running 2 stroke than any fourstroke, but I've never ridden a Factory tuned KTM/Husky 250f ether. Plus I don't exactly ride like those guys. 

I still prefer the 2 stroke for offroad...I just hated carbed 4 strokes.

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