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I wanted to get some feedback on the TM 125/144 MX bikes.  My son had been racing a Varner modified YZ 125 but had a crash (jaw and teeth) that will keep him off the bike for a while.  I sold the YZ but we may go back to a 125 when we return. 

I have heard a lot of good things about the TMs.  We have a dealer willing to support us and help with the price.

From what I have read the 125 power is mostly on top and that may make it hard for him to ride coming off the YZ with good bottom end.  So I had considered the 144 with a broader powerband.

My 2 concerns are reliability and resale of the bike.

Opinions?

Thanks

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Food for thought

local TM dealer has had a 17 TM 144 EN listed on Craigslist for over a year now and the price has gone from $8900 to $7500 in the ad. And still no takers. Local dealer support is a big factor in resale value in my opinion.

 

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MXA just did a review of the TM and KTM125s. The baby-blue Italian gives up nothing to the Katoom. Both blow the Yamaha away.

In my experience, the harder you hit stuff on the TM the better the chassis responds. They have great brakes, very good (and tuneable) suspension, and very high quality components.

 

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Yes I read the MXA test.

They still rated the KTM the best 125. We had a 2016 fully modded EBR KTM 125.  The power was good but the front forks would not work for my son.  i had them revalved an resprung but the 4CS forks were junk. They were dangerous to ride.  I was told my only option was cone valve forks and after I had 2 friends loose their trannys I sold the KTM.  We bought a YZ 125 and sent the motor to Terry Varner.  The bike had 38.5hip and the suspension worked great. My son loved the bike.  Though he crashed over the holiday break in Florida and broke his jaw and knocked 4 teeth out.  They saved 3 but he will need a bone graft and implant in the future.  Anyway we have bad taste for KTM and I was going to move to a 250F but now that they moved the age limit up we may stay on 125's when it's time to ride again.

The TM did receive good reviews but they mentioned the lack of low-end.  I understand you must ride a 125 wide open but if you give too much away it makes the bike hard to ride.  On the flip side MXA has rated some of the TM's without even riding them.  KTM treats MXA very well so naturally they will always come out on top.

My biggest fear with the TM is getting stuck with the bike because I will not be able to sell it. 

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Hi , I got a TM 300 and I'm rebuilding the engine in these days , so I can tell you...DON'T BUY A TM !!! ( this is just my personal opinion )

From outside the bike looks good , alu frame , kyb forks and so on , but all bad stuff is inside and I've discovered it on my skin , mechanical solutions are not so good as they tell you , and re-assembling engine/gear box is a pure tragedy , and you have also electronic ev , which is another bad thing because it needs a continuous maintanance .

Reselling a TM here in Italy is pretty hard ( a guy here is selling his 250 en 2s 2018 because he doesn't like it , and it's still there ) , so I think it would be even harder for you , then you won't find easily accessories , after markef parts , exhausts or other things , also spare parts are expensive , very expensive ( my faster GG 300 piston costs 140 euros , mine costs 185 ) .

In my opinion : consider ktm , husqy or yz for mx races ... why don't you take a look on enduro-cross and cross-country world ? Beta and Sherco have brand new 125 2s now , maybe your son will be interested.

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I have a TM 144en.  It's by far the best bike I've ever owned.  They're built better than any bike I've every had (Honda, KTM and Beta).  The power on the 144 is fantastic, it will lug and keep pulling when you get on the throttle.  The mx version will be even more aggressive.  Between the suspension and the overall handling it puts my previous bikes to shame.  Unlike every other bike I've owned, I've done no upgrades to the bike because it already has all premium parts.  The dealer I bought the bike from is the best I've ever dealt with, Brett from Bonjoe's Cycle Sport in upstate NY.  He rides a 144mx, give him a call and he'll tell you anything you want to know.

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I had a 2012 TM300, rode and raced it for two years.  Only thing replaced was tires.  I now have a 2016 TM125 Enduro.  Racked up 80 hours riding and racing before I replaced the piston and rings.  They were worn but still within specs.  I have also replaced the tires and drive chain.  Not sure about the TM125 MX but my bike pulls like a KDX200 off the bottom and rips on the top end.  I have never had to adjust the electric power valve but I did check it during the rebuild.  The quality of TM motorcycles is amazing.

MMX_2_18_01.jpg

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TM’s are the best bikes made, by far. Resale does suck, there’s not a large owners group to share/exchange info with, and tuners are not familiar with them. Those are the only serious drawbacks you will encounter should you buy one.

i do not hesitate to recommend them to anyone, as long as you understand and are ok with those caveats.

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We have had two TMs in the last (16) months - a 2017 TM 300 Enduro 2-stroke and a 2018 TM 250 EN 4-stroke.  Leading up to the TMs, we had a stable of KTMs, Italian Husqvarnas, Yamahas, Kawasakis, Hondas, etc. and in my opinion, the only applicable generalization about TM is "the TM is not for everyone."   In other words, it will not be appreciated nor consumed by the masses for a number of reasons including,but not limited to, the fact that their hand-crafted production run is relatively low in comparison to the mass-produced production line of KTMs and Universal Jap bikes of the world.

In response to the common denominator questions we get at the track:

"Is it hard to get parts?"

 - NO.  My son hit a tree WFO in third gear and bent the bar and an obscure bushing in the bar clamps...and broke his foot.   I had all parts, including bolts, the next day...THE NEXT DAY, which is must faster than I used to get from my KTM dealer or any online KTM supplier. 

"What about support?"

 - Awesome. You will find the dealers and the distributor to be incredibly passionate about the TMs and that translates into an old-school customer experience.  Ever get a response to your email at midnight from your KTM or Yamaha rep?  Yeah, didn't think so...

"In regards to the reliability and quality, I heard the PV this and then there was this one post about..."

 - Quality is second to none.  When you maintain a TM, you will note the quality of each component and the craftsmanship shows.  I have no doubt there have been unfortunate experiences in certain realms but I would suggest you try to qualify them.  For instance, I bought a brand new KTM 250F and within the first two hours, it dropped a valve, ergo, all KTMs suck?  I don't think so...You will find way more testimonies to the long life expectancy of a TM than the inverse.

"Are there aftermarket parts?"

 - Some. If you look at the TM Gravity Racing website, you will see a sample of the aftermarket parts available for the TM.  In comparison to the aftermarket parts available for the mass-produced brands, the selection pales in comparison for two reasons:  first, as noted by many of the magazines, the TM is as close to a factory bike as the amateur can get without spending a million dollars.  Look at the podium at Lorettas, look at the European GP and Enduros...those guys are running relatively stock TMs.  In other words, what else do you need?  Second, the production runs are low.  If you are an aftermarket producer, would you produce a widget for a market of 10,000 or a market of 1,500?  On the TM, I changed the seat cover and the tires and my kid took second in state in the Enduro series.   On the KTMs we had, I was piping, valving suspension, offsets, breaking hubs, clutch slave protectors, pegs, levers, shift levers, blah, blah, blah, and the list goes on and on...if you like to tinker and fit your bike with the latest bling, do not buy a TM - if you would rather spend more time on the track than in the garage, buy a TM. 

"What about resale value? I heard there was this TM that sat on the floor in....."

 -Who cares?  Again, the TM is not for everyone which means you have a smaller resale market.  Then again, my local big-time dealer has brand a new 2015 and a 2016 YZ on the floor and every KTM I bought, was brand new and a year old.  And when I sell my used dirt bikes, I never expect to get more than 50% of what I paid.  It's a used dirt bike...

In summary, I believe the magazines do a reasonable job of summarizing the demographic of the TM buyer - they are not for everyone.  Most TM buyers have owned just about everything else and are not looking to repeat the same old experience gleaned from the same-old same-old.  If you look at a TM in person and the first thing that comes to mind is one of the aforementioned inquiries, then the TM is not for you.  If you look at a TM in person for the first time and you immediately think, "Wow, look at that!" then the TM is for you. 

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On 4/5/2018 at 2:22 AM, Caferacerman said:

We have had two TMs in the last (16) months - a 2017 TM 300 Enduro 2-stroke and a 2018 TM 250 EN 4-stroke.  Leading up to the TMs, we had a stable of KTMs, Italian Husqvarnas, Yamahas, Kawasakis, Hondas, etc. and in my opinion, the only applicable generalization about TM is "the TM is not for everyone."   In other words, it will not be appreciated nor consumed by the masses for a number of reasons including,but not limited to, the fact that their hand-crafted production run is relatively low in comparison to the mass-produced production line of KTMs and Universal Jap bikes of the world.

In response to the common denominator questions we get at the track:

"Is it hard to get parts?"

 - NO.  My son hit a tree WFO in third gear and bent the bar and an obscure bushing in the bar clamps...and broke his foot.   I had all parts, including bolts, the next day...THE NEXT DAY, which is must faster than I used to get from my KTM dealer or any online KTM supplier. 

"What about support?"

 - Awesome. You will find the dealers and the distributor to be incredibly passionate about the TMs and that translates into an old-school customer experience.  Ever get a response to your email at midnight from your KTM or Yamaha rep?  Yeah, didn't think so...

"In regards to the reliability and quality, I heard the PV this and then there was this one post about..."

 - Quality is second to none.  When you maintain a TM, you will note the quality of each component and the craftsmanship shows.  I have no doubt there have been unfortunate experiences in certain realms but I would suggest you try to qualify them.  For instance, I bought a brand new KTM 250F and within the first two hours, it dropped a valve, ergo, all KTMs suck?  I don't think so...You will find way more testimonies to the long life expectancy of a TM than the inverse.

"Are there aftermarket parts?"

 - Some. If you look at the TM Gravity Racing website, you will see a sample of the aftermarket parts available for the TM.  In comparison to the aftermarket parts available for the mass-produced brands, the selection pales in comparison for two reasons:  first, as noted by many of the magazines, the TM is as close to a factory bike as the amateur can get without spending a million dollars.  Look at the podium at Lorettas, look at the European GP and Enduros...those guys are running relatively stock TMs.  In other words, what else do you need?  Second, the production runs are low.  If you are an aftermarket producer, would you produce a widget for a market of 10,000 or a market of 1,500?  On the TM, I changed the seat cover and the tires and my kid took second in state in the Enduro series.   On the KTMs we had, I was piping, valving suspension, offsets, breaking hubs, clutch slave protectors, pegs, levers, shift levers, blah, blah, blah, and the list goes on and on...if you like to tinker and fit your bike with the latest bling, do not buy a TM - if you would rather spend more time on the track than in the garage, buy a TM. 

"What about resale value? I heard there was this TM that sat on the floor in....."

 -Who cares?  Again, the TM is not for everyone which means you have a smaller resale market.  Then again, my local big-time dealer has brand a new 2015 and a 2016 YZ on the floor and every KTM I bought, was brand new and a year old.  And when I sell my used dirt bikes, I never expect to get more than 50% of what I paid.  It's a used dirt bike...

In summary, I believe the magazines do a reasonable job of summarizing the demographic of the TM buyer - they are not for everyone.  Most TM buyers have owned just about everything else and are not looking to repeat the same old experience gleaned from the same-old same-old.  If you look at a TM in person and the first thing that comes to mind is one of the aforementioned inquiries, then the TM is not for you.  If you look at a TM in person for the first time and you immediately think, "Wow, look at that!" then the TM is for you. 

Great write-up

I have my eye on a new TM300 EN.  Currently ride an 06 CR250.  Surprisingly, the value of a gen3 honda 2stroke is going up, and honda doesn't make 2strokes anymore.

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On 05/04/2018 at 2:22 PM, Caferacerman said:

We have had two TMs in the last (16) months - a 2017 TM 300 Enduro 2-stroke and a 2018 TM 250 EN 4-stroke.  Leading up to the TMs, we had a stable of KTMs, Italian Husqvarnas, Yamahas, Kawasakis, Hondas, etc. and in my opinion, the only applicable generalization about TM is "the TM is not for everyone."   In other words, it will not be appreciated nor consumed by the masses for a number of reasons including,but not limited to, the fact that their hand-crafted production run is relatively low in comparison to the mass-produced production line of KTMs and Universal Jap bikes of the world.

In response to the common denominator questions we get at the track:

"Is it hard to get parts?"

 - NO.  My son hit a tree WFO in third gear and bent the bar and an obscure bushing in the bar clamps...and broke his foot.   I had all parts, including bolts, the next day...THE NEXT DAY, which is must faster than I used to get from my KTM dealer or any online KTM supplier. 

"What about support?"

 - Awesome. You will find the dealers and the distributor to be incredibly passionate about the TMs and that translates into an old-school customer experience.  Ever get a response to your email at midnight from your KTM or Yamaha rep?  Yeah, didn't think so...

"In regards to the reliability and quality, I heard the PV this and then there was this one post about..."

 - Quality is second to none.  When you maintain a TM, you will note the quality of each component and the craftsmanship shows.  I have no doubt there have been unfortunate experiences in certain realms but I would suggest you try to qualify them.  For instance, I bought a brand new KTM 250F and within the first two hours, it dropped a valve, ergo, all KTMs suck?  I don't think so...You will find way more testimonies to the long life expectancy of a TM than the inverse.

"Are there aftermarket parts?"

 - Some. If you look at the TM Gravity Racing website, you will see a sample of the aftermarket parts available for the TM.  In comparison to the aftermarket parts available for the mass-produced brands, the selection pales in comparison for two reasons:  first, as noted by many of the magazines, the TM is as close to a factory bike as the amateur can get without spending a million dollars.  Look at the podium at Lorettas, look at the European GP and Enduros...those guys are running relatively stock TMs.  In other words, what else do you need?  Second, the production runs are low.  If you are an aftermarket producer, would you produce a widget for a market of 10,000 or a market of 1,500?  On the TM, I changed the seat cover and the tires and my kid took second in state in the Enduro series.   On the KTMs we had, I was piping, valving suspension, offsets, breaking hubs, clutch slave protectors, pegs, levers, shift levers, blah, blah, blah, and the list goes on and on...if you like to tinker and fit your bike with the latest bling, do not buy a TM - if you would rather spend more time on the track than in the garage, buy a TM. 

"What about resale value? I heard there was this TM that sat on the floor in....."

 -Who cares?  Again, the TM is not for everyone which means you have a smaller resale market.  Then again, my local big-time dealer has brand a new 2015 and a 2016 YZ on the floor and every KTM I bought, was brand new and a year old.  And when I sell my used dirt bikes, I never expect to get more than 50% of what I paid.  It's a used dirt bike...

In summary, I believe the magazines do a reasonable job of summarizing the demographic of the TM buyer - they are not for everyone.  Most TM buyers have owned just about everything else and are not looking to repeat the same old experience gleaned from the same-old same-old.  If you look at a TM in person and the first thing that comes to mind is one of the aforementioned inquiries, then the TM is not for you.  If you look at a TM in person for the first time and you immediately think, "Wow, look at that!" then the TM is for you. 

nice write up , as stated above these bikes are very good but they are more like a factory bike the public can buy , which is great but they are not fr everyone they are a pure race bike , the faster you ride them the harder you push them the better the chassis and suspension works . the bike are not for beginners as they are too aggressive for them handling and feeling wise . if you looking for a top spec bike to race get a TM your you a top lever rider that wants a bike that works this is the bike for you . 

we run a team in the spanish and european supermoto championships we have 9 bikes in the spanish and 3 in the euros the only thing we change are oil , filter , pads and tires all season , we race against the factory teams and our bikes are right up there completely standard .

i also have the 300 en smoker and new 250 four stroke with the twin pipes both are amazing bikes to ride you would never believe the 250 is a 250 when you ride it the power goes from idle to the rev limiter .

if your a beginner i don't think the bike is for you , but if you like the idea get one and put the time in you will get it to work and work well , at the start it will fell stiff , harsh and aggressive but remember the harder you push the better they work so as hey say just send it and you will be :-}}}

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On 4/5/2018 at 5:22 AM, Caferacerman said:

We have had two TMs in the last (16) months - a 2017 TM 300 Enduro 2-stroke and a 2018 TM 250 EN 4-stroke.  Leading up to the TMs, we had a stable of KTMs, Italian Husqvarnas, Yamahas, Kawasakis, Hondas, etc. and in my opinion, the only applicable generalization about TM is "the TM is not for everyone."   In other words, it will not be appreciated nor consumed by the masses for a number of reasons including,but not limited to, the fact that their hand-crafted production run is relatively low in comparison to the mass-produced production line of KTMs and Universal Jap bikes of the world.

In response to the common denominator questions we get at the track:

"Is it hard to get parts?"

 - NO.  My son hit a tree WFO in third gear and bent the bar and an obscure bushing in the bar clamps...and broke his foot.   I had all parts, including bolts, the next day...THE NEXT DAY, which is must faster than I used to get from my KTM dealer or any online KTM supplier. 

"What about support?"

 - Awesome. You will find the dealers and the distributor to be incredibly passionate about the TMs and that translates into an old-school customer experience.  Ever get a response to your email at midnight from your KTM or Yamaha rep?  Yeah, didn't think so...

"In regards to the reliability and quality, I heard the PV this and then there was this one post about..."

 - Quality is second to none.  When you maintain a TM, you will note the quality of each component and the craftsmanship shows.  I have no doubt there have been unfortunate experiences in certain realms but I would suggest you try to qualify them.  For instance, I bought a brand new KTM 250F and within the first two hours, it dropped a valve, ergo, all KTMs suck?  I don't think so...You will find way more testimonies to the long life expectancy of a TM than the inverse.

"Are there aftermarket parts?"

 - Some. If you look at the TM Gravity Racing website, you will see a sample of the aftermarket parts available for the TM.  In comparison to the aftermarket parts available for the mass-produced brands, the selection pales in comparison for two reasons:  first, as noted by many of the magazines, the TM is as close to a factory bike as the amateur can get without spending a million dollars.  Look at the podium at Lorettas, look at the European GP and Enduros...those guys are running relatively stock TMs.  In other words, what else do you need?  Second, the production runs are low.  If you are an aftermarket producer, would you produce a widget for a market of 10,000 or a market of 1,500?  On the TM, I changed the seat cover and the tires and my kid took second in state in the Enduro series.   On the KTMs we had, I was piping, valving suspension, offsets, breaking hubs, clutch slave protectors, pegs, levers, shift levers, blah, blah, blah, and the list goes on and on...if you like to tinker and fit your bike with the latest bling, do not buy a TM - if you would rather spend more time on the track than in the garage, buy a TM. 

"What about resale value? I heard there was this TM that sat on the floor in....."

 -Who cares?  Again, the TM is not for everyone which means you have a smaller resale market.  Then again, my local big-time dealer has brand a new 2015 and a 2016 YZ on the floor and every KTM I bought, was brand new and a year old.  And when I sell my used dirt bikes, I never expect to get more than 50% of what I paid.  It's a used dirt bike...

In summary, I believe the magazines do a reasonable job of summarizing the demographic of the TM buyer - they are not for everyone.  Most TM buyers have owned just about everything else and are not looking to repeat the same old experience gleaned from the same-old same-old.  If you look at a TM in person and the first thing that comes to mind is one of the aforementioned inquiries, then the TM is not for you.  If you look at a TM in person for the first time and you immediately think, "Wow, look at that!" then the TM is for you. 

I'm blown away at the attention to detail on the TMs. Very impressed.

I almost bought a 2019 EN300 2-stroke from @harrperf who is a dealer in Texas but, I don't want linkage. I also want FI, which the new TMs will have, but instead opted for a 19 300XCW which should be here any day.

 

However, my dad ordered a 19 EN300 6 speed, electric start 2-stroke from him and he is super stoked. Should be here in august if we're lucky. Can't wait to try it out.

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Wait wait wait .... nobody knows anything about 2019 TMs here in Italy and now you are telling me that your father has already ordered a 300 en smoker 2019 , with 6 speeds , efi and electric start ? Are you sure at 100% about these updates ? Your dealer should have an insider at TM's factory ... any picture ? Don't tell me that you have ordered that bike without seeing it .

There is a video online made from TM for the 40th anniversary and at a certain point during the video you can see for a couple of seconds a 2s bike ( or it seems ) with a completely different EV mechanism : no wires , it looks like a Ktm valve , maybe electronic ...

 

 

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I am a TM dealership in Canada and we are expecting our electric start Fi 300en 2T arriving in December. No word if it is a 6 speed which does not bother me because I like the gear spacing of my current 5 speed gearbox.

That is confirmed from the factory. 

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13 minutes ago, BCTM said:

I am a TM dealership in Canada and we are expecting our electric start Fi 300en 2T arriving in December. No word if it is a 6 speed which does not bother me because I like the gear spacing of my current 5 speed gearbox.

That is confirmed from the factory. 

Any pictures? 

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1 hour ago, Hans Schmid said:

Any pictures? 

No pics. Just bam efi e start two stroke outta nowhere! Maybe it’s written in some sort of “book” somewhere:excuseme:

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No pictures. Top secret 😉

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They had a couple pictures of the 2stroke at the big show in Europe a few months ago. Nothing close up.

Just sensors and wires running all over the bike.

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