clutch lever engagement point changed, then clutch died

[cdf450]

my clutch gets abused hard, 520 bigbore with a snowbike kit on it so its run a bit harder than average.

 

has a hinson spring in it I believe otherwise stock.   2013 ktm 450 sxf.   44 or so hours on the plates/bike.   rotella t6 0w-40 synthetic changed every ride or 2.

 

the bike used to take off when the lever was 2" from the bars, barely had to pull the clutch in and it was neutral.  that changed today.... I needed to pull all the way to the bars, it sucked.   then pretty soon I had nothing.   what happened here?   clutch plates finally die or what?  if so

 

what are the best?? im thinking the hinson kit with the upgraded spring (which I already have, but want a fresh one) or the barnett one?
 

Edited March 11, 2018 by cdf450

[Airboss/oc]

check the slave cylinder and fluid levels then bleed it

[cdf450]

What would cause this to happen/need bleeding all of a sudden?

[cdf450]

Anyone?? Didn’t think this was that complicated

[bnr]

Grabbing the clutch when the bike is on its side or upside down may push air into the line.

[cdf450]

Well I bled it and it feels good again. But for how long? The oil was incredibly dirty and almost seemed like it had water in it?? (Snowbike) I’m more wondering why it happened and how to stop it.

[Burnrider]

1 hour ago, cdf450 said:

Well I bled it and it feels good again. But for how long? The oil was incredibly dirty and almost seemed like it had water in it?? (Snowbike) I’m more wondering why it happened and how to stop it.

If this is true, you should flush the system. Newer bikes don't usually fall victim to this like the older RFS models.

[eastreich]

You are probably losing the seal in the master cylinder or the slave cylinder.  The clutch feeling will last for a little while and then it will start to go away again.  You will need to rebuild one or both of the cylinders.

Probably due to the cold weather usage.  Possibly some ice build up.

[Mike in Fresno]

if it is not leaking out at the master seal area and making a mess then its most likely a leak in the slave, classic symptoms you mentioned.. The bore gets worn and then the o-ring lets the oil leak into the gear box along the shaft.

[cdf450]

so basically need a basic rebuild kit?  its not making a mess up top by the bars I know that.

 

I was thinking of riding it once more and going from there... but if its worn, its worn and I may as well just order the rebuild kit tonight.

 

is there actual full rebuild kits? or do I just order the parts I need off here?

https://www.ktmpartspro.com/oemparts/a/ktm/524b9fe9f8700231ac49b05d/clutch

Edited March 15, 2018 by cdf450

[eastreich]

Typically when the master cylinder needs to be rebuilt, it is the inner seal that has gone bad, not the outer seal that will keep if from spewing oil everywhere.  The inner seal is what keeps the pressure from the piston (when you pull the lever in) travelling down the line to the slave.  When that seal goes bad, you can't pressurize the slave.

The parts for the master are on the "handlebars, control" fiche page: #32, Rep. Piston Kit 06 p/n 54802032000

[cdf450]

Awesome. Going to order it today so it’s waiting for me on days off. Winters coming to an end. Gotta get my rides in!

Gonna order that kit 32 from the handlebar controls. Should I even bother ordering the other rebuild for the slave cylinder?

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Again.

[Mike in Fresno]

was the fluid in the master gone or very low? Have you removed the lid to see its level. If the fluid is gone it is the slave cyl seal leaking. If not then maybe its the master inner seal.

[eastreich]

As hot as you have gotten that engine of yours, rebuilding the slave in addition to the master would be cheap insurance IMO.

[cdf450]

9 hours ago, eastreich said:

As hot as you have gotten that engine of yours, rebuilding the slave in addition to the master would be cheap insurance IMO.

ah!  that might just be the answer!!!  I had never even thought of that, but thats a very good point.   I could feel it dying and getting weird throughout the day.  I finally did a 6 switch back, WFO climb for probably over a minute and when I stopped at the top thats when I had nothing left in my lever. no clutch slipping, oil smelled and looked good, oil filter was impressively clean.  the oil in my clutch line was gross though when I back bled it, almost looked watery, and grey like super used clutch oil does.    thank god it was downhill because I could NOT shift into first from a dead stop.... whats the trick to that if I wasnt on a hill?   rev it a little and smash it into gear with no clutch? really had no other option.

[cdf450]

12 hours ago, Mike in Fresno said:

was the fluid in the master gone or very low? Have you removed the lid to see its level. If the fluid is gone it is the slave cyl seal leaking. If not then maybe its the master inner seal.

yes.  I back bled it.  TBH I cant remember right now... been a long day at work and I did it over a week ago.  I do know this, I had to put extreme pressure on the syringe to get any fluid moving. even with the bleeder nipple cracked 1 full revolution.   either way, im gonna do both rebuilds just to be safe. AND piston rings too. why not.

 

one thing I noticed is that little white thing in the reservoir... it wasnt where its supposed to be.  it was floating on the bottom left corner.  its also concaved.. a little. why is that?  I wasnt sure how it went back in and was very hard to tell from the microfiche and from my manual had NO info regarding that thing or how it went in, even the picture in the manual sucked.

 

part 34:    https://www.ktmpartspro.com/oemparts/a/ktm/524b9d18f8700231ac49aa3d/handlebar-controls

[Spud786]

Was that plastic valve already popped off before you tried to back bleed?

[cdf450]

Yes it was. I removed the cover and first thing I saw was that little guy sitting in the bottom left corner. It’s supposed to be top right. And once again, I guessed on how it went in. 50;50 chance it’s right!!

 

[cdf450]

Parts are in the way. Master cylinder rebuild. Slave cylinder rebuild and a new tab washer. $175 Canadian.

[Spud786]

1 hour ago, cdf450 said:

Yes it was. I removed the cover and first thing I saw was that little guy sitting in the bottom left corner. It’s supposed to be top right. And once again, I guessed on how it went in. 50;50 chance it’s right!!

 

I don't think in matters, as long as it clips onto place properly.